French In Disarray As They Admit EU Treaty Vote Is Lost

[Placebo]

THE leader of France’s ruling party has privately admitted that Sunday’s referendum on the European constitution will result in a “no” vote, throwing Europe into turmoil.

“The thing is lost,” Nicolas Sarkozy told French ministers during an ill-tempered meeting. “It will be a little ‘no’ or a big ‘no’,” he was quoted as telling Jean-Pierre Raffarin, the Prime Minister, whom he accused of leading a feeble campaign.

Although Europe would be thrown into disarray, the Government would be greatly relieved if M Sarkozy were right.

Ministers have privately told The Times that Britain is prepared to ditch its commitment to a referendum if France, or the Netherlands next Wednesday, vote against the constitution. They believe that if the French say “no”, President Chirac will have to declare the constitution dead or promise a renegotiation.

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[whistle]

1. So is it Britian that wants the EU constitution killed?

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. A majority of British voters probably do

but for completely different reasons than the French. Many British voters just distrust the rest of Europe on principle (ie xenophobia), and more think the EU is too bureaucratic. The constitution will remove the chance for indiviudal countries to veto EU legislation in a few situations, and so that's enough to set them against it.

Blair would like to get the constitution approved, but doesn't fancy having to change public opinion to do so, so he's quite glad of the chance to say "there's no point in having a vote anyway".

[TahitiNut]

2. Let me guess ....

Insufficient protection for human rights and liberties, but a license to run amok for corporations?
Huge limits on local self-determination but corporate power to ignore and overturn local ordinaces, destroy infrastructure, and turn 'quaint' into 'slum'??

I wonder why I suspect the right-wing corporatists have their way in the proposed Constitution? Just cynical, I guess. :shrug:

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. It's a large and complicated argument

Most of the constitution, as far as human rights, liberties, and free trade goes, is just a repeat of what the various treaties that already make up the EU rules say. The biggest changes are modifications to the rules on how countries agree to pass new rules (vital, in my opinion, because of the enlargement from 15 to 25, with more to come soon) and the appointment of an EU foreign minister - whose job would be pretty symbolic without all the countries agreeing anyway.

But people in both France and the Netherlands are taking the opportunity to make a protest vote at the EU in general. The French left wing objections seem to be about too much British economic-liberal influence (but they don't say how they think rejecting the constitution will change this), while the Dutch seem to be saying they don't like being unable to control their own immigration. Again, I don't think there are specific changes from the status quo in the constitution for this.

[Selatius]

4. If I were a French citizen, I'd vote no precisely for those reasons

The center-right in France are big supporters of this. The far-right is against it because they say it threatens national sovereignty. Folks on the left, especially the socialists, say it will do to them what NAFTA did to US jobs.

[valis]

5. And they are right, of course.

[Selatius]

7. Frankly, I'm sort of relieved the French will kill this thing.

People can draft constitutions all day long, but if they want to impose them on anyone, then they ought to learn their damn lesson and consult the people, not shut the door on them and write it without their input, and when I read the center-right groups were saying that if the French voted no, then they would be considered backward and be left behind trying to play on the fear of isolation, I had read enough.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

9. Explain.

[fedsron2us]

8. The recent enlargement of the EU is part of the problem

There is quite alot of suspicion amongst some of the older western European members of the EU that the new members from Eastern Europe will manipulate the new voting rules set out in the constitution financially to bleed their contries. Even the recent allegation of vote rigging in the Eurovision song contest have been dragged into the debate in Holland as an example of what is likely to occur.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1625029,00.html

Without the money from German, French, Dutch and even British taxpayers to fund the system the enlarged EU will simply fall apart.