Tribes of the left gather to celebrate a vote against EU constitution

[T_i_B]

Has anyone told these French "non" supporters not to count their chickens before they have hatched? Nonetheless you can make of this what you will.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=641441

The hall resounded with 6,000 voices chanting the war cry of the French left. "Tous ensemble, Tous ensemble, hoy, hoy." (All together, all together. There is no known translation for hoy, hoy.) They were all here, or almost all of them - the many tribes of the Gauche Française.

There were the Communists, the Socialists, the Greens, the Ligue Communiste Revolutionnaire (Trotskyist), the Republican Movement of the Left (nationalist), the Radical Party of the Left (radical), Attac (anti-globalist), Copernic (anti-European), Alternative Libertaire (anti-bosses and police), the Alternative Movement (alternative), the CGT (a large, radical trades union federation), FO (a breakaway from the CGT) and SUD (a breakaway from the FO).

They were here, in Martigues, a Communist-run town between Marseilles and the Camargue at the mouth of the Rhône, to celebrate the victory of the "non" in Sunday's referendum on the proposed EU constitution. To celebrate, because the anti-treaty left - and many in the pro-treaty centre-right and centre-left establishment - now believe that the battle is decided. Ten opinion polls in a row have shown the "non" camp ahead, by up to eight points.

Barring a miracle, or one of those repudiations of the opinion polls to which French voters are occasionally partial, the EU constitution will be rejected by France on Sunday and, therefore, die. The rally in Martigues was, therefore, more about What Happens Next than about the campaign just ending. Speaker after speaker, and there were 18 of them, called for the preservation of the "new unity" of the anti-treaty left: far left, alternative left, old communist left and part of the socialist and green moderate left.

[katinmn]

1. hoy, hoy = hey, hey

nominated.

[puddycat]

2. no wonder the French are known as "complicated". A surplus of parties.

Alas, in contrast, the USA has too few viable parties.

[billbuckhead]

3. USA has 1 and 1/2 parties

[NeoConsSuck]

31. We have the Capitalist party..

any other party that tries to push a different economic system is locked in the closet.

[saigon68]

34. A RePuke Party and a lot of Dinos who are closet members

There is only the party of the rich ruling class

And a lot of SHEEP who vote for them

Because they are Homophobic, JayZeus Lovers, who sleep with guns in their beds.

Remember kids to quote the Chimp's Handler Rove--

"IT'S ABOUT GAYS, GOD and GUNS"

[blogbear]

4. The US screams at others what they can do from its comfy bully pulpit..

[puddycat]

8. Yes, the USA is a bully. but what does that have to do with my post?

I certainly wasn't telling the French what to do. I happen to like the French, but I have a right to point out the obvious--that their lack of cohesion in some of these political fights causes them problems.

[blogbear]

15. I agree puddycat and wasn't directing criticism at you..Yes you have

a rightto your comments about the French (and I like them all in all also).. My comments were really aimed to support your remark that we need more viable political parties here..My contention here is that more people could not only be brought into the political spectrum but could be both ultimately satisfied and energized by a more openly diverse and less critically intrusive approach here and elsewhere. I don't personally object to private spirituality or state matters unless the two are combined into no more than a power and control mechanism..This is about what my criticism was aimed and not your post..

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. More complications, from the same journalist earlier this week

He interviewed Daniel Cohn-Bendit, A German Green MEP who has very close links with France (he was the leader of the students in the 1968 Paris 'revolt'). He unlike many of his colleagues, is very pro-constitution.

As I left the bar, I asked le patron whether he had truly fait les barricades with Cohn-Bendit in 1968.

"Yes, of course," he said. "And we still need a revolution in France. We should be more like your country, like Britain. France will never succeed until we have the right to hire and sack people whenever we like."

The veteran of the barricades had become a man of the right, then? No, he said, he was still a man of the left. And therefore stoutly for the "non".

I told him that Cohn-Bendit was for the "oui".

"What? Really? He's changed sides then."

A truly confusing campaign in a truly confusing country.

http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=640680

[K-W]

16. Im not sure how you can have a surplus of democracy.

A true democracy should be littered with small organic political groupings driven by the diversity of public opinion rather than coralling it into a narrow spectrum like our parties, and most party systems do.

[T_i_B]

19. This is the far left we are talking about here

It looks to me as though the far left in France is actually pretty divided. That's not suprising at all. Over here in the UK we have a plethora of far left parties such as the Workers Revolutionary Party, The Spartacists, the Socialist Labour Party and so on (most of whom get very few votes indeed at election time). Some of these groups try to get together as part of George Galloway's RESPECT Coalition but you never seem to know who's in and who's out of that grouping.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. These guys crack me up.

He did not accept, then, the popularly held view that the USSR was a failed tyranny. "No!" he said. "That is a capitalist lie. The Soviet Union did nothing but good..."

Sounds like a freeper.

[JuniorPlankton]

6. I grew up in the USSR

People who say didn't live there but say how nice it was are just a bunch naive assholes.

[bennywhale]

11. I know this is irrelevant to this thread but cos you were born in the USSR

can i ask you first whether it was Russia you grew up in and if it was what are your opinions of Putin.

I was in Russia recently and have always been fascinated by its history, learning about ittt and travelling there when i can.

I also visited pre 1989.

I find the Russia of today a very scary place, both in terms of criminality and the apparent beginnings of the slide back towards totalitarian government. There seems to be an air of menace in Moscow these days. Prominent Journalists are being murdered and Putin seems to be tightening hios grip.

What are your thoughts of today and for the future. Are you worried?

[JuniorPlankton]

25. I am not worried at all

I left that miserable place 11 years ago and I have no regrets. I have not been back since and do not have any immediate plans (10-20 years) of doing so. I have US citizenship, my kids were born in Boston. Russia can (and will) go to hell for all I care.

Russia today is a bad place. I still have a childhood friend there (he lives in ST-Petersburg now) who is a political journalist. The stories I hear from him send chills down my spine. (Just for starters: when I did a Goggle search on his name, I got dozens of stories about him being beaten on the street for being "in opposition" to the president.)


I really hate * and his Republican cabal, but sometimes it is important to keep things in perspective. We are a long way away from the USSR of the 70s or Russia of today. We are making rapid progress, though.

:kick:

[bennywhale]

26. "Russia can go to hell for all i care" Do you feel no affinity

or empathy with your countrymen and woman. I'm not criticising your feelings i'm just curious.
I'm from England, and of all the things i hate about it, i still love it as its my homeland.

[JuniorPlankton]

27. No, no affinity at all

I miss the time, the people. They are all gone, one way or another.
(It's clear about the time, but the people have changed so much we have nothing in common.)

[David__77]

12. Then why...

...why do many Russians long for Soviet days? It's clear this is the case, since Putin utilizes Soviet imagery to serve his political purposes. I'm not defending the bureaucratic set-up of the 70s and 80s, but it's clear that many Russians who did live there indeed prefer those times to these.

[K-W]

17. Being better than the current Russian economy isnt a high bar to clear

I think the important thing to remember is that nothing has really changed. Russia is still ruled by a core of elites under the myth of legitimate government, it just calls itself democracy now instead of a communism and accepted the economic domination of the US.

Like China, they realized that the US model for exploitation is far more advanced than thiers.

[Vladimir]

22. And not just Soviet imagery

but a weird mix of Soviet and Orthodox imagery, often with Stalin as some sort of archangel. Very very bizzare, no doubt.

[JuniorPlankton]

24. It's natural on some level

People tend to forget the bad things and remember the good.
Otherwise there would not be any families with more than one child (I am only half joking)

It's not all people who want to go back. It's the older folks
People were younger and happier and healthier.
Finally, they don't really want to go all the way back. They want to combine the good things about the USSR (yes, there were some, I can defend this point) with the best things of the post-USSR period.

[Vladimir]

21. Self delete n/t

[Kagemusha]

7. I remember the last Quebec referendum in Canada.

That was close, *really* close. And close mattered because a very narrow win effectively shut down separatism for a decade (perhaps more), but a narrow loss would've made life a little too interesting.

Sunday referendum? Geez, that's a little ways away here.

[mike_c]

10. kicked and nominated....

:kick:

[xchrom]

13. they want their jobs and healthcare protected.

i can't blame them -- i want to see a european union -- but i want one that is run by the people and not for corporate interests.
well -- still -- i would vote oui.

[Adelante]

14. I wonder if half the problems with this constitution vote

comes from the document being something like 200 pages. Who can even understand it? How many voters have even read it? So the vote comes down to which side wins the PR battle.

[T_i_B]

18. I think you may be right on that one

only I think it's actually way longer then 200 pages! I personally will not make up my mind one way or the other on this one until I have attempted to read it.

At least the US constitution is short and reasonably straightforward. That's just one of the many, many good things that can be said about the US Constitution.

[Adelante]

28. I don't have a vote, but if I did

I would vote Non, just so they'd write the damn thing over again. I think it's probably going to slip in on Sunday, though, despite the polls. The real objectors will stick, but the average voter type is probably feeling the heat about now.

You're right, though, I read that in French it's closer to 450 pages.

The US Constitution is so short, it is flexible, it has to be interpreted anew all the time. It's also why we have to watch it like a hawk.

[T_i_B]

30. One of the arguments the "yes" camp does use

is that there is no plan B and that if this fails then they won't be going back to the drawing board to rewrite the thing. At best that argument is just pure scaremongering and having just sat through the UK General Election I have little time for scaremongering politicians.

[Adelante]

32. Yes and they're lying

They would have no choice but to find a Plan B, if they don't have one on the table someplace. It would take more time, but it's their own damn fault. They should take whatever time needed to get it right. This is not a small thing for Europe, as you would know better than I, and pushing an impenetrable document on the public is very wrong. I have no opinion on the EU itself, but the underlying legitimacy should be rock strong, whatever the political design is to be. It just seems from here that this constitution is some kind of scam or they wouldn't have overloaded it with every last thing on earth.

[T_i_B]

33. Oh you never know with this lot

You might find that they simply decide to keep on holding referendums until people relent and vote Yes. I may be mistaken but I think that's what they did when Ireland voted no to the Nice Treaty.

It would be nice to see the EU return to the drawing board in situations like this but that's not their track record I'm afraid.

[Adelante]

35. The Dutch seem very firm on No

I keep thinking the French will go Yes in the end today, but how do you see the Dutch vote on Wednesday?

[T_i_B]

36. Well the French have voted "Non"

And we shall see how the Dutch vote in due course.

[GarKeeper]

29. 200 PAGES?

Your joking right???????????????

[CWebster]

20. I'm in the wrong country.

[sadiesworld]

23. "Tribes of the left..."

They said "tribes". BOO!