Bible reading requirement at Boca schools sparks debate (Fl Duh......

[wakeme2008]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-pbible26may26,0,2501054.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Bible reading requirement at Boca schools sparks debate
Broward Educator
By Scott Travis
Education Writer

May 26, 2005

Fran Eppy was taken aback when she looked at her son's summer reading list. His only requirement was to read passages from the Bible.

The English Department at West Boca Raton High School is asking all incoming 11th-graders to read from the book of Genesis over the summer. Nearby Olympic Heights High School also requires the reading for students in honors 11th-grade English classes.

It's an assignment that educators say will better prepare students for much of the American literature they'll study next school year.


..more at link....

[annabanana]

1. Did they specify which version?

Idiots..

[AnneD]

48. Many fundies (that don't read the bibile)

don't realize there are 2 versions of the creation in the book of Genesis. And we won't even meantion the different translations and the subtle ways translations influence the formation of beliefs. I think they should be required to read King James translation---I mean, if it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for the Boca kids (TIC):evilgrin:

[AnneD]

61. Oh Brother...

Am I embarassed. I should have edited. I do read the bible and I know how to spell it. Just types too fast.:blush:

[XemaSab]

80. I'm sure many DU'ers

think that about the Bible.

:-)

[MASSAFRA]

2. What American literature

are they preparing to study?

[wakeme2008]

3. You know all that American Literature that deals with

" American literature, such as Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark, Hierholzer said. Advanced-placement literature exams sometimes ask about biblical references in literature, she said."


:sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

12. AP exams do ask this

They have essays and questions that deal with religious archetypes and themes. I don't agree with how the school is handling this, but these themes are very usual to properly understanding quite a bit of Western literature and art. It just needs to be presented as literature themes and archetypes in class. I had several high school and college teachers handle this very well -- and I went to HS in a blue state! (NJ)

I don't think the kids need to be told to read the Bible, though. There are better ways to present this in class while still respecting the Constitution and the students' religious beliefs or lack thereof.

[Bandit]

37. Bull.. A person does not need to read the Bible to understand

American Literature. What does Edgar Allen Poe have to do with Genesis? I somehow was able to read and understand the American Literature I read without having read the Bible first. This is a complete line of bullshit.

[LostinVA]

38. I don't consider it bull

I've taught college-level literature survey classes, and believe me, religious themes and archetypes are constantly woven through the works, and are constantly used in lectures and discussions. Religious themes don't only include Judeo-Christian, although those are the ones most often used in Western Lit.

Can you read and enjoy most American Lit without this information? Probably. Can you get the most out of it? No. And, if you want to major in English, you should know this information, just as you should know Greek and Roman mythology.

And I never mentioned it would be helpful for reading Edgar Allan Poe.

And I've said several times I disagree with having the Bible as required reading. But students of art, literature, and history should be aware of important religious themes and archetypes.

[Richard Steele]

59. I agree that it's important, but reading Genesis is not the best way.

And ESPECIALLY since this is happening in Florida...that state Gov. has long since lost any "benefit of doubt" with me.

11th grade Honors English students certainly SHOULD learn of recurring themes and literary archetypes.

But they would be better informed by MANY other sources.
Joseph Campbell's 'Hero With a Thousand Faces' would be alot more useful than Genesis, just to name ONE of MANY.

[LostinVA]

64. I state in this thread that I think reading only Genesis is bogus

There is nothing wrong with learning OT/NT themes along with information from other world sources. I've said this in this thread several times.

But, thanks! I appreciate that you realize this information is important to understanding art, literature, history, etc. You're not a Philistine. Hey! An OT reference! (just kidding)

[sarcasmo]

70. I agree and as an Atheist this scares the shit out of me. Theo Fascism

The next step is for the nut job Jesus Freaks to force me into a Church. Over my dead body, will I set foot in another church again.

[jwcomer]

77. Not even for a wedding?

What about a funeral?

That's pretty extreme, dont ya' think?

[Occulus]

119. not extreme in the least n/t

[BornLeft]

137. No, extreme

is coming back and haunting any dipshit that tries to have my burial in a church, i do not even wish to be laid in <un> holy ground. My ass is getting dumped into the ocean for shark bait. And civil ceremonies are just fine by me, i only like getting loaded at the reception anyway.

[0rganism]

76. Poe? Maybe not. But you'd be lost in Moby Dick without it.

Like it or not, the Bible is an important and prominently-featured source of metaphor in American literature. Not the only source, obviously, but well-known. For better or worse, it's been a common literary context that people across the world could look to for meaning.

Reading Genesis, and I do mean READING it rather than listening weekly to some vestment-adorned motormouth babble about how Goddiditinsixdays, has value in and of itself. Genesis is a bizarre, raunchy, and disturbing amalgamation of ill-fitting stories that a lot of folks accept unquestioningly as a premise for rational argument. The bible deserves more critical scrutiny than it gets in typical Sunday school treatment.

[XemaSab]

81. Poe

`Prophet!' said I, `thing of evil! - prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us - by that God we both adore -
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels named Lenore -
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels named Lenore?'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

[BornLeft]

138. I like Pho. :) n/t

[manic expression]

139. Hmm...

They should not be told to read the Bible, unless it is used in conjunction with the piece. If this happens, then they should read Greek myths if they study Willa Cather (Eurydice), for instance. If it is presented in class as a reference, that is perfectly fine and I would encourage that, but to put parts of the Bible on a reading list is not right at all.

[Tesha]

27. "Mein Kampf." (NT)

[LostinVA]

29. This was required reading for me in my AP history class

in HS, and then again in a college class. A German friend of mine is appalled we were made to read this.

[SemperEadem]

43. when did the bible become American literature?

none of it was written by Americans.. in fact, America hadn't even been discovered when the bible was written.

If I had a child in that school district, I'd demand to see the reading list the English department is going to use for next year.

[IndianaGreen]

62. Good question!

What American literature are they talking about that requires reading of the Book of Genesis? It sure is not Mark Twain! Unless, of course, they are speaking of the play Inherit the Wind...

[FreedomAngel82]

113. Shakespeare?

:shrug: (which I love by the way)

[Adrian Luca]

4. I can't really see the problem here

It would be impossible to properly analyse John Steinbeck's work without knowing the Old Testament.

Nathaniel Hawthorne would be pretty pointless to anyone unfamiliar with Judao/Christian myth

[RC]

5. You are being facetious, correct?

[Jim Lane]

6. Nonfacetiously, I think it's OK

Secular education can legitimately include things like teaching about religion, and also, as in this case, reading religious texts for their value as works of literature. I remember a few Biblical excerpts being included in an anthology that served as one of my high school English textbooks. It didn't stop me from growing up agnostic.

The Establishment Clause prohibits government from favoring or disfavoring any religion. It doesn't require government, upon encountering religion, to run screaming in the opposite direction.

[Mountainman]

8. The problem here as with all right wing agendas is,

What is the real motive of the action.

I am not disagreeing with you but in almost all cases when right wing people get on a school board they act like stealth candidates. Their real agenda is to teach Christianity to kids in public school and they use all kinds of deviant tactics and say things such as you are saying to cover up their intentions.

If things were as you say, then they should read from every religion's holy books. Nothing wrong about teaching comparative religions and making it an elective, but I doubt very much that is what is going on here.

You think the kids could read some Wiccan books too?

[Adrian Luca]

22. Wicca...the ancient 55 year-old religion

It's pretty hard to think of any important American literature that requires a knowledge of the 60 year-old Wiccan religion.

I guess an argument could be made for John Updike's "Witches of Eastwick", but that novel actually has jack-shit to do with Wicca.

Judaic mythology has been around for thousands of years, and Christian mythology for at 1400-2000 years. A vast amount of western literature requires at least a general knowledge of christian/judaic mythology to understand where it's coming from.

In the same way, you couldn't debate the contents of Salmon Rushdie's Satanic Verses properly if you didn't know anything about the Koran.

[sarcasmo]

71. I hate to tell you but all Religion is Mythology.

[orleans]

73. wiccan, pagan, it predates christianity

[Adrian Luca]

102. Typical ignorance

You can't point to "paganism" and claim it shows "Wicca" is ancient.

Wicca is a set of beliefs that were formulated since the 1950's, like most of the tenets of Scientology.

"Pagan" is just a term applied by ancient romans to any rural culture.

[orleans]

111. should i say "typical" know-it-all?

someone who gets too much information off google?

[Adrian Luca]

126. I know you are, but what am I?

Anyone who thinks Wicca is an ancient religion is definitely two witches short of a coven.

[LostinVA]

127. Wicca isn't an ancient religion

Although some of its tenets are. However, what we now refer to as "Paganism," ie nature-centered religions is ancient. And most of us who are Neo-Pagans realize this, and reconstruct the "trappings" as best we can, as well as embracing animus, the duality of deities, or whatever their particular path of Paganism holds as a belief.

Many of Christianity's traditions, celebrations, and even doctrine are rooted in Paganism, btw.

There's really no need to be snide and disrespectful of many DUers religion.

Btw, I'm a follower of Celtic/Feri Tradition, so I am only obliquely Wiccan, but I respect my Wicca brothers and sisters.

[XemaSab]

82. Genesis

pretty much covers Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, maybe not to the letter but the general ideas.

I don't disagree with you that there's another motive here, but it could be a lot worse... it could be, say, the book of Romans or another New Testament book.

I think it's hard to understand much English literature without a hazy, shadowy, rudimentary understanding of the Bible, but this seems like a very short and suspicious summer reading list.

[jukes]

25. Jim Lane

i believe you do find this acceptable. i'd be interested in knowing how much, and to whom, you "tithe"...

[Jim Lane]

121. As I said, I'm an agnostic

I certainly don't tithe. I almost never contribute to any religious-based charity or organization. Some of them do wonderful work, and I wish them the best, but I can't support every good cause, so I might as well give priority to the secular ones.

As others have commented, there's reason to be suspicious whenever the government does something that might favor religion over nonreligion. That's more true in some parts of the country than in others. Remember, though, the right-wingers love to find the most extreme examples, so as to paint the left as anti-religious. There's a difference between forced indoctrination into Christianity and simply having students read a beautiful story that happens to be in the Bible.

One formulation of the meaning of theEstablishment Clause is: the government may not favor one religion over another, may not favor religion over nonreligion, and may not favor nonreligion over religion. Sometimes these lines can be very tough to draw. For example, a public transit system that operates seven days a week uses a seniority system to allocate shifts. The more senior workers get first choice as to schedule, so most of them choose to have weekend time off. New hires generally have to work both weekend days. Some of the new hires say that Saturday or Sunday is their Sabbath, and they're forbidden from working on those days. What do you do? If you give them the day off, then they're getting a benefit, ahead of people with more seniority, just because of their religious beliefs. If you deny them the day off, then members of those denominations are effectively barred from working for the transit system. There's no good answer.

[Adrian Luca]

17. You're kidding...right?

Are you seriously suggesting that someone could honestly and competently analyse John Steinbeck's "East of Eden" without being familiar with the mythology of the books of Genesis?

[jukes]

28. i don't think an entire summer

need be dedicated to bible study in order to understand any legitimate american author.

nor do i think that an indepth study of the MYTHOLOGY of the 10 commandments have any bearing on the study of law.


this assignment is POORLY masked fundy indoctrination and support for it is poorly masked disruption of an intelligent discussion of the insinuation of xian infiltration of our school-system.

[LibInternationalist]

30. oh please, an entire summer?

I could read the book of Genesis in about 20 minutes, tops. And I have. And I'm an atheist. And I don't have a problem with this at all, for the literary reasons stated above.

ETA: Okay -- ONLY required reading? That's bullshit. But I couldn't argue if it were just some of the required reading.

[rayofreason]

129. I'm with you...

The only reading? Pretty lame, as you point out. At least add some textual analysis, like "The Book of J" by Harold Bloom, or some additional reading of classical material (Homer? Plato? Sophocles?) that will at least make the student work for 1-2 hours/day for a week and which is also at the foundation of western civilization.

[meti57b]

33. I recall in high school, we had a class in Greek and Roman mythology....

I don't remember if it was the entire class or part of some class but they covered just about every single Greek and Roman mythological event and it was a requirement.

Perhaps the bible could be covered in a class like that, entitled "Mythology of the Western World".

[KansDem]

45. I agree. Add "Christian mythology" to Greek and Roman...

And you have the beginnings of a well-rounded liberal arts education.

[ballcap1776]

90. Exactly!

I'm about as far to the left as you can get, and I don't have a problem with this being on a reading list. We read parts of the Koran and other religious works from other cultures in HS and college lit classes. Besides, you would be lost reading and critically analyzing many works without a good biblical basis and having them read it over the summer to get that basis leaves religion out of the classroom.

I'd rather my kid read it on her own time, than have it potentially shoved down her throat in a classroom by a fundie. But it probably needs to be read. Can you understand Beowulf, for example, without having some understanding the culture and religious beliefs of the time? Probably not very well.

I don't think it's horrible or unconstitutional.

<sarcasm>
But, then I tithe and teach Sunday School, so I'm evil incarnate.
</sarcasm>

[Mountainman]

7. You don't need the old testament to understand "The Grapes of Wrath"

"The Grapes of Wrath" is about the dust bowl days here in Bakersfield. I go past Weedpatch Camp daily.


Students in Bakersfield were not permitted to read that book by the good Christians here for a long long time because it did not portray the agriculture businesses here in a good light.

Although it was the truth, it is about the mistreatment of poor people by the wealthy and the average citizen.

Go read a book titled, "Weedpatch School" to learn about what things were like here in the 1930's.

You sure don't need the old testament to understand anything Steinbeck wrote for darn sure.

[LostinVA]

11. Actually, I disagree with this

"East of Eden" is specifically based on the story of Cain and Abel, and includes many other OT archetypes and themes (ie "Timshel" - thou mayest or thou mayest not -- free will).

I think it is okay to present religious archetypes and themes as they deal with the story. Literature is full of these. It would be great ti include the same archetypes and stories from religions other than Judaism and Christianity, too. There is a way to teach this without getting all Freeperish about it, and it should be taught if the kids are going to study lit in college.

I majored in literature and history in college, and having a knowledge of this greatly helped me.

I am 100% for separation of Church and state, but I even though I disagree with the requirement of Bible reading over the summer, I see nothing wrong with religious themes and archetypes being presented in a classroom setting if it deals specifically with a work. This would go for an art class, too.

And, it needs to be TAUGHT, not preached.

[marshall]

35. Grapes of Wrath and the Bible

Check it out--the title of the work comes from a biblical verse and the novel is full of biblical themes and symbols--Rose of Sharon, Christ figures, being lost in the desert, even the unconventional structure of the book is compared to the structure of the bible.

Having been a high school English teacher myself, I wonder how accurate the report to the parents of the assignment. Was it really the ONLY thing assigned. Maybe there was a class discussion and several items were mentioned as necessary reading, and the bible was the only one that child was not familiar with, and therefore the teacher said get familiar with it.

[johnaries]

41. It was the only REQUIRED reading. Other assignments were optional.

I MIGHT believe their "excuse" if Bulfinch's Mythology were also required. A lot of American authors also allude to Greek and Roman mythology.

[MrPrax]

52. No Kidding...

You noticed the KEY to this--presumeably a college-level entry system and the ONLY assignment is 'parts of the Bible'?

Why aren't they assigning backgrounders like Bulfinch or even Eliade's The Sacred and Profane.

I guess it would be a no-brainer to just simply assign books LIKE East of Eden or the Scarlet Letter and do the 'interpretative' analysis when they get back.

Indeed, a lot of American authors allude to Greek and Roman Mythology and anyone who doubts this should tour Washington DC...

Good post...

[XemaSab]

86. Poe

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and
flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed
he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door-
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door-
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore.
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no
craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the Nightly shore-
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore."

[fishwax]

57. Grapes of Wrath is based on the Biblical story of Exodus

No, you don't need to understand the Bible to enjoy or appreciate the novel, but knowing the frameworks Steinbeck used to develop the story does help when doing close readings. The title is itself a Biblical allusion (book of revelations).

You could get something out of Grapes if you were intimately familiar with the dustbowl but knew nothing of the Exodus story. Likewise, you could get something out of Grapes if you were intimately familiar with Exodus but had never heard of Okies or the Dust Bowl.

Knowing about both will only add depth to the novel, and a serious academic discussion of the novel would be inconceivable w/o touching on both subjects.

I think the fact that the bible is the only thing on the summer reading list makes this assignment pretty suspect. Western literature is built around other mythologies as well, and students in an AP English class would do well to knwo the basics of Greek and Roman lit also. But the discussion of Biblical frameworks is pretty natural for a lot of American literature, and Steinbeck in particular used Biblical frameworks a lot.

[fishwax]

58. Incidentally, here in OKlahoma the book was Verboten as well

but because they think it paints Okies in a horrible light. I know a lot of Oklahomans who think Steinbeck was just making fun of Okies, rather than sympathizing with their plight.

[XemaSab]

84. "You sure don't need the old testament

to understand anything Steinbeck wrote for darn sure."

Oh boy.

Oh boy.

:popcorn:

[Zhade]

10. This is a violation.

Keep my tax dollars out of religion, thank you.

[jukes]

24. post #4 reex

of musty fur and damp earth.

i'd suggest a little more subtlety...

[brooklynite]

53. Okay, I'll take those off my reading list...

Somehow I got through AP English without ever making it through GENESIS...

[LostinVA]

9. This doesn't even make sense from a literature POV

I actually think that people who study Western literature do need to have a basic understanding of both the OT and the NT. But Genesis? Okay, "east of Eden" does very much deal with Cain and Abel, but Genesis alone is not a good foundation for understanding this.

I think a better way of dealing with this is to have sent home instructions to the parents saying how certain religious themes and archetypes may be discussed in class in the Fall (ie Cain and Abel). But just assigning a 16-year-old kid to read certain passages out of the OT is really skating on thin ice, both Constitutionally and scholastically.

[XemaSab]

88. I'd say Genesis, Exodus

and one of the New Testament books, in addition to at least some Greek/Roman mythology, and probably some Egyptian, Sumerian, Celtic, and Norse mythology too, plus some sort of background info on Islam and Judaic thought (if not the Torah and the Koran) and a good history of Catholic thought and the susbequent Protestant reformation.

Then I would assign Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, and A Midsummer Night's Dream at a minimum.

THEN and ONLY THEN can we have a discussion about Western Literature.

[LostinVA]

97. Ha! Very much an agreement Xemasab

This old English major and TA is hair-raisingly appalled at some of the nonchalance on this thread regarding the important (or lack thereof) of a good religious mythology background for studying lit. I may now understand what my old Math teacher felt when I asked her, "Calculus? What the heck is calculus good for???"

[mbperrin]

124. Of course, for Shakespeare, you'll want the Bible HE read:

the Geneva Bible, of course, since Bill was dead long before the KJV was a glimmer in James' eye....

[marshall]

130. King James Bible

Actually the King James Bible would be pretty relevant to Shakespeare. That version was published in 1611 and Shakespeare died in 1616. It reflects the language use of his time. There are also ongoing rumors that Shakespeare assisted in the work.

[Bridget Burke]

13. The Bible selections are the ONLY required reading.

Honors level students must also read a couple of novels. But--why the Bible for everybody? Mentioning biblical influences while discussing the various works is one thing, but that requirement seems a bit off.

Actually, I don't remember any biblical influence mentioned when I studied American Literature. What about Edgar Allen Poe?

Most "Western" literature also relies on Greek mythology. Are other classes required to read, day, Edith Hamilton's introduction?

Edited to add: Of course, how many students will be "converted" by this requirement? How many will say, "Yuck--required reading!" & be turned off?

[LostinVA]

15. BB -- I'm on your side!

I said I don't believe in the Bible being required reading. And I am completely for separation of church and state (note my comments on the current "God dong banned at talent show" thread). That being said, I don't think it's wrong to discuss certain religious historical and archetypes. You kinda have to have this for most Western lit and art. It's not teaching someone a certain religion. If a teacher does that, they need to be fired ASAP.

We studied Christian, Jewish, Pagan, and mythology archetypes and themes in my AP classes in HS and college. In HUS, we did indeed have to read Edith Hamilton, along with other world mythologies and aspects of other religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) I graduated HS in 1982, btw.

What about Mr. Poe? I never said these themes are appropriate to every single piece of literature. But, just to take some American Lit, they are appropriate to Hawthorne, Mather, Wheatley, Jefferson, Chopin, Steinbeck, Faulkner, just to name a very few. I actually don't know how you could teach "East of Eden" without the free will/Timshel aspect.

My nephew just told an AP lit test, and they asked quite a bit about religious themes, and by religious I mean religious, not only Christian.

[DrRang]

19. Lost allusions

Another aspect: A book on writing by Rita Mae Brown talked about how Americans had a common stock of literary allusions and metaphors up until the mid-20th century because most people with any education were at least shallowly familiar with the Bible, Greek mythology, and Shakespear. If a writer referred to wise and foolish virgins, or something coming down like the fall of night, or sound and fury signifying nothing, those few words carried the weight of an entire archetypal story. For better or worse, we don't have that common stock of references any longer. "Is that your final answer?"

[LostinVA]

20. I also think this is why Shakespeare should be studied

Because he illustrates all of these archetypes. There are some great modern writers -- including female writers and writers of color -- who also illustrated these archetypes. They should be taught, too.

[johnaries]

63. If they're going to study Midsummer's Night Dream then they need to

study Celtic Paganism, too.

[LostinVA]

65. Johnaries, I'm a Pagan, actually a Celtic/Feri Pagan

I couldn't agree with you more. That's' my point. You have to know ALL of this to get the most out of literature. Saying Biblical themes aren't needed/important is as bad as saying anything else isn't important. Students need an understanding of all of it.

[johnaries]

74. I could tell by your avatar. My ex was also.

I wish more people would study Celtic Paganism - they seem to have a lot of strange ideas about it.

Happy Belated Beltaine!

[LostinVA]

96. Thank you for the "belatement"!

It was a very merry Beltane and a glorious fire.

Celtic Pagans are of course only obliquely Wicca, but they are my brothers and sisters.

[johnaries]

115. She called herself a "kitchen witch".

Actually, I've had several Wiccan and Pagan friends. Once you get past the rituals, the underlying philosophies are very similar to the Taoist principles that inspire me. For instance, the "interconnectedness" of the Universe. And the creative visualization involved in petitions are very similar to Taoist meditation techniques, if a bit more ritualistic.

One time, when she was reading a text I had recommended, she put the book down and said "wow, I'm a Taoist and didn't even know it!"

And I agree with you in your other post - I think students should be exposed to as many different points of view as possible. I mentioned "Midsummer's" and Celtic Paganism because so many Christians have such bias against it.

I still get a kick at Easter when Christian co-workers ask "where did the name 'Easter' come from and what do bunnies and eggs have to do with it?" and I get to explain Ostara to them. Hey, they asked!

[LostinVA]

122. ha! Yeah, and Yule is another one

It's soooo Pagan. Mistletoe, when Christmas falls, trees, etc.

A friend of mine calls herself a "kitchen witch." Some Neo-Pagans have little set ritual, like Reclaiming. Since I was raised Catholic, I have to admit I really like the rituals! That's just the trappings though. You're right: the Taoists and many Pagans agree on many tenets.

[Lorien]

117. See post #110

at this point I'd be happy if more people had simply HEARD OF THE PLAY!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

51. Hahahaha

>>
... note my comments on the current "God dong banned at talent show" thread.
<<

I assume you mean "God song banned at talent show".

Snicker.

[LostinVA]

68. God, I need a nap

Thanks. I'll go edit it.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

69. It's too late for that, I hope.

I pray that it's too late to edit that.

[LostinVA]

123. It is! My SPAZZINESS IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!

[GOPFighter]

14. Here's the key:

"Fran Eppy was taken aback when she looked at her son's summer reading list. His only requirement was to read passages from the Bible."

ONLY Bible passages were assigned. I could see a single Bible passage as part of a list 20 other short stories or a couple of novels, but when the Bible is the ONLY book assigned, this is clearly a naked attempt to inject religion into a public school curriculum. I hope some parents go ballistic!

[LostinVA]

16. Again, I agree

I've said several times on this thread that the Bible shouldn't be required reading. I was only answering someone who didn't think ANY mention of religious themes appropriate in public school. I was simply stating that I think it does have a place if properly taught: in lit, history, and art classes.

[trapper914]

21. From the same story

<<Boca Raton High School Principal Geoff McKee dropped plans to offer an "Introduction to the Bible" course last year when teachers, parents and some school district officials complained.>>

Fundamentalist baby steps. The entire course didn't pass muster, so they'll indoctrinate in smaller steps. A little required reading here....

[me b zola]

104. I caught that too, and I agree with you

Fundie baby steps.

[Coexist]

18. Fine - let 'em read it

I think if people actually read Genesis, they will see what a myth it is, and Creationism will lose much of it's sheen.

Pissed off parents should pool some money for an ad in the local paper to form a summer discussion group for these kids and compare and contrast it with The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0393315703/103-5290969-4625464

[bdot]

23. We never had summer reading.

If I was in school now I would still not read over the summer. I wouldn't be in school in the summer so I would just ignore any assignment given.
I hear some colleges due this crap too. I would just laugh at them.

[Tracer]

34. Perhaps, Bdot, if you had done some reading ...

... you would be able to express your thoughts better in writing - and spell correctly also.

[Bridget Burke]

42. In my day, we didn't have Summer Reading, either.

But nobody could stop me from reading, anyway.

[mitchum]

92. LOL!!!

nicely done :)

Despite growing up in Yahooland, I am still always amazed at someone who takes pride in their avoidance of reading

[pissed_American]

26. Type-O...

"It gives them a foundation, so when they read other pieces of literature that make reference to it, they'll understand the allusions."

Should say ILLUSIONS.

[ballcap1776]

93. Allusion in literature, from Websters

Main Entry: al·lu·sion
Pronunciation: &-'lü-zh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin allusion-, allusio, from Latin alludere
1 : an implied or indirect reference especially in literature; also : the use of such references
2 : the act of alluding or hinting at
- al·lu·sive /-'lü-siv, -ziv/ adjective
- al·lu·sive·ly adverb
- al·lu·sive·ness noun


Sorry, the professor in me had to post it...

[fishwax]

94. I could be wrong, professor,

but I took the "illusions" post as a sarcastic commentary that the bible is more illusion (delusion?) than truth ;) rather than an honest attempt at correcting the spelling in the OP :)

But that's just how I read it :) Either way, welcome to DU :hi:

[pissed_American]

125. You are correct

[fishwax]

128. I thought that's what you meant

welcome to du :hi:

[femmecahors]

31. Unfortunately . . .

if you are going to study English or American literature, you should study both the old and new testaments . . . along with all the Greek mythology.

I was an English literature major in college and knowledge of the Bible would have come in handy . . . but alas, I was brought up Catholic and Catholics aren't taught to study the Bible. We get our interpretation from Rome. (I'm Jewish now!)

[Bridget Burke]

44. I went to Public School & took Catechism classes on Saturday.

We spent more time on the Baltimore Catechism than the Bible.

But I made it through parts of the Old Testament & the Gospels on my own. Our family Bible had notes for interpreting many passages, written by Church scholars. You can't take that stuff literally!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

72. Catholics aren't taught to study the Bible

I would have a hard time believing that, except one of my sisters-in-law is Catholic, and a few weeks she told me that too, much to my surprise.

[LostinVA]

98. I had CCD and taught it, and we did indeed study the Bible

Specifically theology. I don't think it has as much emphasis as a Fundamentalist-based religion, but shame on any Catholic who doesn't know the Bible.

Now singing is a different story. Catholics have great choirs, but the congregation just kinda does loud mumbling instead of singing (except for that one lady who thinks she's Beverly Sills,a nd ALWAYS sits behind you at Mass).

[etherealtruth]

103. Let me be one more person to verify this ...

...I went to a Catholic grade school and endured years of "CCD". We were never even encouraged to read the bible, much less instructed to.
I hate to contradict anyone, but my experience was that there was a great deal of singing. I'm 43, perhaps that is the difference.

[fishwax]

107. I was raised Catholic, and definitely was encouraged to study the bible

:shrug:

differences in parishes/dioceses? Who knows ...

[alcuno]

136. I think it's outside influence.

The reason the Catholic Church has historically NOT encouraged it is their fear (and probably likely so) that every loon with a bible will be interpreting the Word of God.

[bobbieinok]

134. same for the study of any European literature

[ovidsen]

32. Only ONE required reading assignment? Genesis?

So much for comparative literature.

The priorities of Boca's so-called educators are obvious.

[demo dutch]

40. Totally, it's got tons of churches, a part of downtown is called

"Bibble town". But is also has a very large Jewish population. In the recent election the mayor (Jewish/Republican) was challenged by a well-funded Pentecostal minister (also a Republican) The mayor won in a landslide.

I am sure, it will only be a matter of time before the first lawsuit is filed. ( I hope!)

[saltpoint]

36. The assignment is part of a long list of required stuff to come later.

If you read the Bible first, LORD OF THE FLIES is a much richer text.

My favorite play, EQUUS, wouldn't make any sense at all if a reader didn't understand Judeo-Christian beliefs.

There are Bible-as-Literature courses all over the place. A good thing. Perceptive students will quickly see that a codified belief system often straitjackets individual navigation of Self. We're in a post-Christian era. Have been for a while.

Boca schools are on the ball on this one.

[demo dutch]

39. Here we go, in a place like Boca it'll be a matter of time before the

first lawsuit is filed! Let's hope it happens soon! The county is one of the only democratic strongholds in Florida with a very large Jewish population.
Mind you the mayor (Jewish and Republican) was re-elected over the well-funded Pentecostal Minister (also a republican) There was no Democratic candicate to speak off running.

[Lorien]

46. Never read the Bible, but always aced my American Lit classes

this assignment is complete bullshit.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. And I've read the bible several times, which is to a large part the

reason I am now an atheist. And I also aced my lit classes.

I don't disagree with assigned reading of Genesis. But it being the ONLY reading is very suspect.

Of course, the fundies think that the book is magic, and all you have to do is read it, or even touch it to be infused with the light of the lord.

I also don't believe in magic.

[fishwax]

67. I've passed lit tests without reading the actual text we were studying

but that didn't make assigning the texts bullshit.

I agree with you that the assignment is bogus, but not b/c understanding biblical myths and allusions won't add depth to the study of literature--it will. I think the argument is bogus b/c the bible is the ONLY reading included here.

[Lorien]

105. It's the EXCUSE for the assignment

that I was referring to as BS. I can't think of one book that we were assigned where reading the Bible would have increased our understanding more than say, reading a related work of fiction, or a book about the historical events that occurred during the authors lifetime.

[fishwax]

106. I can see your point, and one certainly doesn't have to READ the bible

to get an understanding of the references/structures/archetypes at play. I think the assignment is bullshit too, as I said, but I do think exposure to myths (or whatever you want to call them) like the exodus, fall of man, cain and abel, canaan, redemption, christ figure, etc. are a huge benefit in the understanding of western literature, just as understanding achilles, icharus, etc.

They're foundational myths in a lot of ways, but you don't have to actually read genesis or exodus to get many of the contexts that, say, Steinbeck uses (to use an example discussed above). Just like you don't have to read the original homer to understand all the greek mythology. But it does help. I'm fairly adept at recognizing biblical references, and I've found that a great advantage in the study of literature.

As far as related pieces of fiction and historical background go, those are cetainly important too, but whereas they provide great depth to a specific work, a basis in biblical myths, greek myths, etc. may not provide as much depth for a specific work but is applicable to a breadth of works, which is why it might make sense to provide that background/foundation before starting a course. But it certainly doesn't have to be in the form of actually reading the bible, particularly when similarly important myths apparently weren't assigned.

[Lorien]

110. In America, I think it's very difficult to be unfamiliar

with the Biblical stories you cited. I can quote the Bible and much of it's content without having read it from cover to cover (and I think most people do just that). There is far less of an understanding of Greek myths, Shakespeare, or basic history among Americans than Biblical verse, IMO. Every time I take my cats to the vet, I'm asked "Oberon and Puck-those are weird names. did you name your cat after a hockey puck"? I say no, they were characters from "A Midsummer Night's dream". No recognition. I say "One of Shakespeare's comedies" still nothing-even if the person I'm talking to is over 30! It's shocking. I saw "Kingdom of Heaven" with a friend yesterday, and the friend thought that every character in the film was entirely fictional. He didn't understand why the Muslims treated the cross with respect. Hell, he didn't know that Richard the Lionheart had been active in the Crusades! But he CAN quote the Bible.

My mom is an atheist turned born again Christian. And yes, there is no zealot like a convert. I can hold my own in a biblical discussion with her-and she raised me as a atheist! That just goes to show how entirely pervasive those myths have become.

[fishwax]

114. You're definitely right that knowledge of greek myths etc. is less common

i've got to work to shore that knowledge up myself. But I actually find myself surprised by how ignorant a lot of people are about the kind of biblical myths I would tend to think common knowledge among some of my former classmates, and they're mostly from bible-beating oklahoma! Just goes to show that just b/c you profess a belief in it doesn't mean you know jack about it. And as for their ignorance of other religions, oy vey!

It's interesting what you said about holding your own--I guess I know more atheists and agnostics who are well-versed in the bible than I do fundamentalists who are well-versed. (I guess that's kind of a tangent, but I find it interesting ...)

:)

[Lorien]

116. Lol!

" I guess I know more atheists and agnostics who are well-versed in the bible than I do fundamentalists who are well-versed." so do I! I think there's a good reason for that too; we agnostics and atheists (I'm one of the former)tend to remember ALL the bits of the Bible and other religious texts that we've picked up along the way, while fundamentalists tend to recall only the parts that support their very rigid system of beliefs.

[fishwax]

118. yep, you hit the nail on the head

the fundie leaders, especially, remain willfully ignorant of things like the golden rule, rich men and the eye of the needle, etc., not to mention all the mundane things other than homosexuality that leviticus condemns :eyes:

[bobbieinok]

135. student at a Christian college formed a group to work at coffee houses

he said they really had to check the knowledge of the students who wanted to work with the group because many of the 'non-Christians' with whom they talked knew much more about the Bible and the history of Christianity than most of the students at that Christian college

[XemaSab]

89. You obviously have SOME understanding

of mythology/literature with cats named Oberon and Puck.

:-)

[getmeouttahere]

49. I can't believe what I'm hearing....

I grew up in a conservative area in Southern Oregon and when I was in school, the idea of even a prayer breakfast in a public school was unheard of. If they told me I had to read the bible (and I grew up Catholic) my parents and I would have told them wher to shove their bible!

This is preposterous. I don't care how much of it is interwoven into the fabric of western literature, it is still promoting Christianity, and I'm sure all in that school are Christians, even in Florida.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

50. assignment will prepare students for much of American literature

They're right.

They ought to read Exodus, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes as well.

"Stranger in a Strange Land," anyone? Quick, where's that from? You need only have viewed Cecil B. DeMille's "The Ten Commandments" to know that answer to that, except that it takes Cecil B. DeMille an hour and a half to do what it takes the Bible only 22 verses.

What is the origin of:

"To everything, turn, turn, turn;
There is a season, turn, turn, turn...."

What is the origin of this passage from "Moby Dick":

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

I repeat; they're right.

[MrPrax]

55. Nonsense...

Do you really need indepth Bible reading (as opposed to JUST watching the Ten Commandments) to read Wharton, Woolf, James or West?

Precisely what Bible chapters would be germane to an understanding of say, Uncle Tom's Cabin?

Besides, where would one draw the line? Some books have particularly strong Catholic themes and Masonic symbolism?

The kids should be directed to study everything and would probably be best helped, as many here, with reading Northrop Frye's The Great Code, which is a very good interpretative analysis of how the Bible affects a good deal of the western canon.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

66. Uncle Tom's Cabin

Let me see: slaves held in bondage by a cruel master.

Nope, nothing in the Bible about that.

Let us open our books to Project Gutenberg, "Uncle Tom's Cabin". Not only shall we open our books, but let us rely on the text search function to find occurrences of the word "bondage." Say, what's this?

>>
"It's undoubtedly the intention of Providence that the
African race should be servants,--kept in a low condition," said
a grave-looking gentleman in black, a clergyman, seated by the
cabin door. "`Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he
be,' the scripture says."<2>


<2> Gen. 9:25. This is what Noah says when he wakes out of
drunkenness and realizes that his youngest son, Ham, father of
Canaan, has seen him naked.


"I say, stranger, is that ar what that text means?" said
a tall man, standing by.

"Undoubtedly. It pleased Providence, for some inscrutable
reason, to doom the race to bondage, ages ago; and we must not set
up our opinion against that."
<<

(I'm stopping here to eliminate gratuitous use of the N-word.)

[MrPrax]

91. You walked Right Into that one!

OK...you win...the Bible has a lot to do with racist 19th century attitudes and CERTAINLY that point should be made loud and clear when this good book is studied...

Can you do this trick with Mickey Spillane?
Dare yeah--double dare yeah ;-)

[fishwax]

95. the idea that slavery is un-christian is one of the main themes of UTC

and Harriet Beecher Stowe was deeply entrenched in abolitionism on specifically religious grounds. So while it's certainly true that the bible has a lot to do with racist 19th century attitudes (and, let's face it, racist 20th century attitudes as well) it also had a ton to do with progressive 19th century values.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

112. Mickey Spillane

My original answer:

I'm going to have to pull a Dan Rather "we can't verify that" on this one, as Mickey Spillane is not among the authors listed at Project Gutenberg. Accordingly, I can't do any online text search for Biblical references. I guess that to be in Project Gutenberg, the works have to be in the public domain. Spillane may still be alive.

Project Gutenberg, the "S" Authors

The Unofficial Mickey Spillane Mike Hammer Site

And then I saw this:

Vengenace is Mine



Well, well, well. Let us open our books to Deuteronomy 32:35:

>>
Vengeance is mine, and recompense, at the time when their foot slides; for the day of their calamity is at hand. The things that are to come on them shall make haste." WEB

Vengeance is mine, and recompense, At the time when their foot shall slide: For the day of their calamity is at hand, And the things that are to come upon them shall make haste. ASV

Punishment is mine and reward, at the time of the slipping of their feet: for the day of their downfall is near, sudden will be their fate. BBE

Vengeance is mine, and recompense, For the time when their foot shall slip. For the day of their calamity is at hand, And the things that shall come upon them make haste. DBY

To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. KJV

To me belongeth vengeance, and recompense; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. WBS

Vengeance is Mine, and recompense, against the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that are to come upon them shall make haste. JPS

Mine 'are' vengeance and recompense, At the due time -- doth their foot slide; For near is a day of their calamity, And haste do things prepared for them. YLT
<<

I rest my case.

[oneold1-4u]

54. A basic study of Koran

Had more people known more about the Koran and MI faiths and teachings, the war today would be on completely different ground! The Islamics visualize this war as just another battle against those who would destroy the Muslim way. Their way is to them the same as western ways are to the fundies and neo-con political religious right.

[sleipnir]

56. If they are going to study literature they should read all the Bible.

If you want to understand western literature and have a decent chance in college there are three things that all students should read.

1: The King James Version of the Bible

2: All of Shakespeares works, or just the 15 or so "Major" plays.

3: Bulfinch's Mythology


Here's the reason why.

Nearly every single literary reference or allusion in Western Lit that any student will encounter will be based upon 1 of the three above. Bulfinch's even covers non-western myths, so at least the college bound person will have a good undertand of non-Western literary allusions.

Genesis also will help with the reading of The Epic of Gilgamesh. Funny how the flood story is identical in both. The leading theory is that the Genesis flood story is based upon Gilgamesh and placed in the Bible by ancient Jewish priests as a story about how not to anger God. The actual flood was almost certainly a 500 year flood, similar to what happened in 92/93 Mississippi Valley, but much worse.

Any honors lit course that doesn't prepare the students for college by introducing them to the above sources is failing in their goals.

[CarefullyLiberal]

60. That's ridiculous and bigoted

I would have been less offended if the teacher suggested Penthouse Forum. (Is that even still around?)

-Fergus

[Walt Starr]

75. I don't have a problem with this.

Ten to one says Milton's Paradise Lost will be the main piece in teh curriculum for the year.

[LostinVA]

99. Definitely -- all of the Judeo-Christian allegory

I had a Milton class in college. We spent half the semester on "Paradise Lost." I drank alot that semester.

[Miss Chybil]

78. American Gothic Literature stems from Puritanical backlash. Is this how

they are going to approach the subject? Are they going to teach students how early American settlers believed Catholics were children of Satan himself? Are they going to cover pre-destination and Calvinism and how that affected the literature of the day? If so, why can't they cite Bible passages after they read the stories? However, I just finished an upper division college course on American Gothic literature and we weren't required to crack a Bible once. Amazing how we were able to comprehend the stories without the Bible lesson. In fact, reading this early literature was quite a lesson in how fundamentalist religion can drive people insane.

[iamjoy]

79. Not A Bad Idea If Done Right

Didn't a college require incoming freshmen to read the Quran to round out their cultural understanding?

Of course, prior to taking American History, we should also have students read at least one surviving book on the religion of one or more Native American tribe.

When studying Europe in the Middle Ages, including the Inquisition, students should have to read the Talmud and Midrash.

And, when studying Eastern cultures, read the holy books of Hindu and Buddhism.

Fair is fair.

[LostinVA]

100. I think it was Carolina (Chapel Hill to all of the non-NCers) n/t

[killbotfactory]

83. Are they trying to bore the kids to death?

Genesis is one of the most boring books I've ever read. complete torture.

[LostinVA]

101. And Person X begat Person Y who begat Person B who begat

Person ABC. Come on Kilbo, that's a slamming fun read!

[The Straight Story]

131. actually it can be fun

I felt the same way for longest time until I sat down with paper and pen and tracked it and the timelines they showed. Starting with Adam as Year 0. Those begats actually can lead to some interesting things when you analyze them.

edited for typo

[VegasWolf]

85. I received more bang for my buck by studying the Greek and Roman pagan

mythologies than I ever did studying the christian mythology.
Zeus will strike these Boca heathens with lightning bolts.

[mitchum]

87. I'm very much in favor of this

Familiarity with the the King James Bible is indispensable for a study of American and British literature. I don't believe a word of it, but my knowledge of it contributed to my always being the best student in every lit class.

[barackmyworld]

108. I am FAR from a fundie or xtian at all and I agree

I had a very hard time understanding a lot of lit in High School because I did not know the Bible. The kids don't have to believe what it says!

(I am talking about specifically AP Literature, AP Language and Composition, and American Lit classes)

[marshall]

132. Anybody find the text of the reading list

I have hunted and hunted online for the actual text of the reading list. I wouldn't take for certain that Genesis was the only required reading until I saw how it is worded. Maybe there were choices between one thing and another except for Genesis? Maybe they could either read Bulfinch's Mytholody or Edith Hamilton's, but because they have a choice it's not being called "required" in this report.

[SlipperySlope]

133. I would like to see it too...

Anyone find this, I'm interested as well.

[jayctravis]

109. The Bible is certainly literature.

My literature curriculum also included ANIMAL FARM and THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING.

Some people take the Bible seriously as some people take Star Trek seriously. There is some beautiful prose in it.

I would hope this would open up the literatures of Asia and the Middle East and other myriad cultures which are inspired teachings. The Mahabarata is an epic poem, as is The Iliad. I don't know if the Koran is something that is or can be translated into English, but certainly it should be included too.

[VegasWolf]

120. The Greatest Story Ever Sold, people still buying into it. n/t