Sisters give birth at 12, 14, 16 (UK story)

[Pert_UK]

"Three schoolgirl sisters have given birth aged 12, 14 and 16. The Williams sisters, who live with their mother in a council house in Derby, feature in a BBC3 documentary called Desperate Midwives.

Natasha, the oldest, Jade and Jemma, the youngest, are reported to receive £600 a week in benefits.

Their mother Julie Atkins, 38, who said the girls were too young and had ruined their lives, blamed schools for providing poor quality sex education...

Mrs Atkins told the Sunday Mercury: "I don't care what people say about me. I blame the schools - sex education for young girls should be better." "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4572219.stm

Great......so their mother takes no responsibility for this. Because, obviously, it's not up to her to ensure that her kids know about safe sex. Equally, it's no responsibility of hers to ensure that her TWELVE year old daughter isn't having sex. :sarcasm:

People like this woman make me SICK to my stomach. Let's blame the fucking schools.

Newsflash - schools are NOT surrogate parents, and you don't lose all parental responsibility the second your kid gets to school.

2nd newsflash - calling your kids "T-Jay" and "Amani" is only going to lead to a lifetime of ridicule, burger-flipping and casual gang violence.

These people have NO class whatsoever.

[Big Kahuna]

1. You are shocked by this?

This kind of thing is commonplace in the states.

[Leafy Geneva]

36. No, it is not at all common in the US.

Can you cite even 1 instance?

[XemaSab]

51. One instance of what?

Girls having babies in middle school or high school?

I have a friend who is a high school principal for troubled youth in the San Joaquin valley, and he says *most* of his students are parents.

Most.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. I disagree

It is all too common here in the US. I teach and I can't tell you how many of my students were born to mothers in their early teens. I would estimate at least half.

[demo dutch]

60. Leafy Geneva here are the facts about teen pregnancy in the US:

Fact: The United States of America has double the adolescent pregnancy and birth rates of any other industrialized country.

One million teens in the USA will become pregnant over the next twelve months. Ninety-five percent of those pregnancies are unintended. About one third will end in abortion; one third will end in spontaneous miscarriage; and one third will continue their pregnancy to term and keep their baby.


More than half of them are 17 years old or younger when they have their first pregnancy.

Approximately 40 percent of young women become pregnant before they reach 20 years old.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Well, now. That was certainly ugly.

--p!

[Pert_UK]

5. Ugly, yes......I find it hard to be "pretty" when...

confronted by a woman who seems more concerned at blaming her daughters' school(s) than worrying about their physical and mental well-being, or her own potential contribution to their circumstances.

Personally, I'm surprised she hasn't tried to sue somebody yet.....

Is nobody else bothered by a 12 year old girl giving birth? Does nobody else suspect that there just MIGHT be some sub-standard parenting when not one, nor two, but THREE daughters all conceive children whilst below the legal age of consent?

To have one pregnant teenage daughter seems unfortunate, but to have three seems like carelessness....

As regards my comments on names......maybe I'm a bit of a snob, but I can't see how/why it helps to give your kids names from a Jerry Springer audience when you live in Derbyshire.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. "Seems"

That's the key.

First of all, we know nothing about the Williams Sisters and Mama Julie except what we get in the news. They just might not be all that bad.

But more to the point, the story is part of a high-profile, rage-provoking TV show that will be on BBC3 tonight and everyone's lips tomorrow morning. Of course they're going to find the stories that are calculated to stir outrage -- Teen promiscuity! Babies on the dole, picking the pockets of hard-working Englishmen and women! Blasphemy against Personal Responsibility! And some of the most adorable babies and delectable randy nymphets imaginable.

The war hasn't been going over too well lately in England, either, has it? And that North Atlantic thermohaline current failure sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie. I imagine that the price of petrol has also increased in England. The pressure from the EEC can't be helping, either. And then there's that annoying spate of would-be political scapegoats who can actually look Tony Blair in the eye and tell the truth.

Your "bad luck" is that there are fewer psychotic pedophiles for a really good Nine-Day Distraction than there are in the USA, so your media is forced to manufacture the UK's crises one slutty girl-child at a time. (In this case, it was a three-for-one, with Mum thrown in as a freebie.)

Keep in mind: The Williams Girls are peasants. But to the programming heads at the Beeb, so are you. (And you don't want to know what the American media thinks of me!)

--p!

[wildeyed]

10. Many girls who have sex at a very early age have

been sexually abused. Some of them are looking for love, purpose and acceptance in their lives and trying to get it through having a child.

I don't condone this behavior, and I think it is crazy that the mom is blaming the schools. But it is very hard to see from a short article what is going on in this family and why these girls are acting the way they are. Besides, the babies are here now. Time to focus on their well being and development.

[Eloriel]

28. Thank you -- that's true and it needed to be said

Now, we "might" be able to blame the mother for not protecting her daughters better on that score, but we don't know the facts of the near-certain abuse.

[TX-RAT]

42. Statutory rape in the UK? or child molestation?

Whats the law on this?

[Pert_UK]

45. Well technically...

age of consent is 16.

However, police are unlikely to prosecute if it's genuinely consensual and between two kids of roughly the same age who are both quite near to 16, e.g. both 14/15 years old.

I would expect kids as young as 12 who were having "consensual" sex would probably be offered some form of councilling (sp?), and the social services would get involved.

I genuinely believe that if a parent was doing nothing to stop their 12 year old having sex then social services would become seriously involved in that family to ensure that the kids are offered sufficient protection and advice.

When the age gap is bigger (e.g. a 17 year old having sex with a 12 year old) then I would expect charges to be filed.

Oddly enough, the police and social workers do try to use common sense in these cases.

[Junkdrawer]

3. Not to exonerate the mother, but how is sex ed in the British schools?

Although, I wonder if giving 10 and 11 year-olds lessons on safe sex would go over well anywhere.

[Pert_UK]

8. Regardless of sex education in schools........

surely it's the mother who is best placed to judge:

-if her 11 year old is getting into sexual situations (and hopefully to stop this happening)
-what sex education her daughter needs and when

IMHO, although it may (in rare circumstances) be appropriate to talk to 10 year olds about how to have safe sex, shouldn't we be trying to ensure that they're not having ANY sex until they are more physically and emotionally mature?

I know that the "abstinence" campaigns in the US just don't work, but for the love of all things Holy, can't we agree that 10 and 11 year olds just shouldn't be having sex AT ALL?!?!?!?

[Junkdrawer]

50. As I said, I'm not exonerating the mother. I'm just curious...

about the state of sex ed in Britain. Here in the states, it's a mixed bag with Christan Conservatives stopping sex ed for HS seniors in some places.

And, as I also implied, sex ed for 10 yr olds would be a tough sell anywhere.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. If this quote is accurate, it's hard to blame the sex ed

The two younger sisters are still at school and are the only young mothers in the playground.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4590163

If all the other children avoided pregnancy (I suppose there could have been abortions, though), and this family has had 2 births while at school and a third pregnancy that started while the mother was at school (and who'd had an abortion and 2 miscariages before), then I think I'd look to the family environment rather than the school's sex education.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. calling your kids "T-Jay" and "Amani" ....

I don't think this is a fair statement to make. Gang violence? According to who?

[Pert_UK]

6. I'm deliberately exaggerating....but COME ON!

You live in Derbyshire and you're giving your kids names like this......how can kids develop any kind of reasonable self-image, self-respect or develop aspirations when they've been named after people who sound like guests on Jerry Springer?

Seriously, maybe it's different in the States, but in the UK I suspect that names like "T-Jay" aren't going to gravitate to the top of any pile of job applications....

And "Amani" just sounds like they've been named after a designer clothing label.

[bettyellen]

12. i guess if you're doing the hiring, it is a problem

[DoNotRefill]

71. "Hi, My name is 'TubeSteakBoogie'. How may I direct your call?"

I can see it now... :rofl:

[Ms. Toad]

13. Amani is a traditional African name

meaning peace. Particularly if the child has African heritage, it is a very appropriate way to honor that heritage.

[Pert_UK]

17. OK....well maybe I stand corrected on that one.......

Apologies for any offence caused with regard to that particular comment.

P.

[Lerkfish]

19. sounds like a good name, then

I would like to point out the OP that girls giving birth at such young ages is not a good thing...but they are the victims/exploited, not the perpetrators.
I cringe at the misogynist attitude that holds underage girls responsible for their pregnancy but mentions not a word about whoever got them pregnant.

for the record, though, I agree on the face of it, it seems the mother's ire is misdirected.

The bigger issue is: who the hell is impregnating these underage girls? shouldn't they be in prison? Or does the UK not prosecute pedophiles and sexual predators?

[makhno]

25. Read the article

One of the girls states that her 14-year-old boyfriend impregnated her. Then, to her amazement, the kid all of a sudden wanted nothing to do with her and little "T-Jay."

On edit: time to eat some crow. Another boyfriend is freaking 38. Jeez. I don't care what the age of consent is, this is just fucked up.

[DoNotRefill]

70. The child doesn't have african heritage unless it's on the mother's side..

the father is Asian, still lives with his parents, and is 38 years old.

[Ms. Toad]

78. Could be either parent

Asian and African heritage aren't mutually exclusive.

Could also be neither.

I was mostly cautioning against disparaging names with which one is not familiar. I have friends who named their child Amani, so it struck me as particularly disconcerting to have the child, given the name because of the traditional meaning, linked to designer clothing bearing a different name.

[BiggJawn]

15. Most of us have no concept of Derbyshire.

Remember, Pert, a LOT of us have mental images of James Herriot's Yorkshire when we think about the English countryside.

Over here, you take a word, tag "anda" onto the end of it, and voila! Instant Name!

[Eloriel]

30. It also strikes me as

racist, classist and his whole anti-mother diatribe as sexist.

[Pert_UK]

46. Don't see how it's any of those......

certainly not sexist - I would make the same objection if it had been a lone father who was blaming the school.

Racist?......well I don't think so.....I'm saying that I find it ridiculous that somebody from Derby would want their child to start life with a rap-style nickname. That's personal preference I suppose. I just felt it was another example of this family not taking their parental role seriously or thoughtfully.

Classist?.....it depends what you mean.....I'm not judging based on their wealth (or lack thereof) or standing in society. You can be poor and still have class or you can be rich and be completely lacking in class (cf David and Victoria Beckham).

FX Wayne and Waynetta Slob: "Why can't we call the baby Ashtray?...Because Ashtray's a boy's name! We'll call it Frogmella"...

[mark414]

61. it's too bad you don't see it as any of those

because it is

[Pert_UK]

62. Hey, well seeing as how you're infallible....

I guess I'll just have to believe you, eh?

:eyes:

[ekelly]

65. Regarding names.............

Pert,
Quite often in the US, a child named T.J. actually has a name such as Timothy, or Thomas. The "J" is for junior.
Timothy junior, or Thomas junior, after their father or another relative.
Many times teenagers will take that original TJ and change it to something that seems cool among their friends, like T-Jay.
The parents didn't necessarily spell it that way.

Example: My grandson is called CJ my most of us. His name is Curtis Tyler Feldman. His father's name is Curtis Feldman.We call him CJ (for Curtis junior) in order to aviod confusion when he and his father are both in the same room.
Now, CJ is only 6 months old, and as he gets older of course he will be aware of what his "real" name is. And when he applies for jobs as an adult it will be his choice wether to use CJ or Curtis on the application.
CJ is simply a way for us to differentiate between the 2 Curtis's in conversation.

Quite a common practice in the US.

[0007]

7. When it was found out that junior couldn't read upon graduating

from the top university on this planet. Poppy decided that the schools needed reform and all the teachers should be fired.

[bennywhale]

11. Why do you hate the poor and uneducated so much?

Why does this woman make you sick to the stomach? Do you know her?
Have you heard everything she's got to say onthe matter? or just the bit about school sex education picked up by the media to infuriate people like you.

Do you really hate the poorer working class that much? Is their ignorance solely down to them? or is it part of a wider societal problem of family breakdown and community, which in turn are linked to wider issues beginning in the preceding decades.

Should we condemn a little more and understand a little less?

People like you make me sick to my stomach

[Pert_UK]

18. I don't hate the poor and the uneducated......

What I hate is people who blame teachers, schools, the education system.......anybody except for themselves.

I understand that the Repugs are always preaching about personal responsibility, but never actually taken responsibility themselves. Well, that's what being a parent is all about, IMHO, being responsible for your children and giving them the care and information that they need to live life safely and to the best of their abilities.

This woman's 16 year old daughter had already had two abortions and a miscarriage before giving birth to this baby..........and what, the mum didn't think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, she might need to sit down and have a little chat with her and her other two daughters?

I'm afraid that when you're a parent the "well, shit, I thought somebody else would stop that happening to my kids" excuse just doesn't wash. They're YOUR kids, and if you think that they should have sex education (which this woman apparently does) then maybe you should check with the school to see what they provide, and if it's not enough then you should augment it to ensure your kids are prepared.

Alternatively, if you think that your 11 year old is likely to be having sex, maybe you might like to re-think when she goes out, who with, where she goes etc.

Or maybe we should all just wait until all 3 daughters have given birth under age and then just be sympathetic?

Clearly nobody is to blame here, it's just one of those things, and we should just not worry about so many young girls being sexually exploited and made pregnant before they have a chance to finish education.

:sarcasm:

[Lerkfish]

20. oddly, you place no blame whatsoever on whoever impregnated them...

why is that, I wonder?
Obviously, this is the act of a sexual predator...these are underage girls.
Do you not have any concern for them?

[annabanana]

21. Ding Ding.. Where's Momma's "boyfriend"?

Momma didn't knock them up...

[makhno]

27. Read the article

It wasn't "mom's boyfriend." These kids are fuck ups of the highest order. Flame away.

[Pert_UK]

26. Not true at all.......

I do place blame on the men/boys who got these girls pregnant...Especially the 38 year old "gambler" who got the eldest girl pregnant and who should be a) paying for the child and b) locked up.

As for the 14 year old boyfriend of 14 year old Jemma.....well OK, I do hold him responsible too, but that doesn't exonnerate the girl's mother in this instance.

[Lerkfish]

31. ok, that was the first time I saw you mention them, however.

I'm still confused why your original and largest blame rests on women in this unfortunate situation. As if girls 14 and under "egged on" the men/boys or that somehow the mother pimped out her daughters.

I have a neice that got pregnant by a boyfriend at 13. I can guarantee you my sister did everything that could have been done to prevent that from happening. Unless you want to comment on the my "low class" sister, which I don't recommend.

[Pert_UK]

38. Hey, I'm not saying it never happens.....

and I'm not saying that parents should be burned at the stake if things go wrong - we all make mistakes, especially when we're kids. I'm certainly not perfect, and you can't educate about every single possible situation and protect your kids from all scenarios.

I wouldn't dream of passing comment on your sister.......but then, your sister doesn't have THREE daughters who have all given birth at such a young age.

To have one teenage pregnant daughter is unfortunate, to have THREE seems like carelessness.

[bennywhale]

41. "Giving them the care and information they need to live life safely"

As i said i don't know the personal circumstances of this woman and neither do you, but it may be useful to bear in mind that a lot of young girls who become pregnant, have uneducated and in some cases semi-illiterate parents (or in this case parent).

Due to social circumstance, bad education, and innate ability, some people are unable to properly organise their own lives, let alone their children's. Some have relied on Welfare their entire lives, due to the decimation of industry, manufacturing, and stable Working Class employment. They have turned to Welfare for most things including their children's education.

You say in your sarcastic bit that "clearly no one is to blame here", obviously laying the blame at the mother. However do you not think wider circumstance and causes should be analysed rather than demonising the poor and badly educated.

Clearly someone is to blame. Why in the 21st century is this woman incapable of properly parenting her children? Why do young girls feel useless and unwanted in today's post industrial societies? Why is education of the particularly poor and less intelligent so bad? Why are fathers less involved in their families in poor communities? why do young people from poor communities feel so despairing about their futures? What is driving young kids from poor communities to seek love and affection in the form of sex at the age of 12? Why is this more prevalent today than in the past? Or is this just returning to the state of nature in a less constrained society? Did girls 100 years ago not get pregnant this young from poor communities?

Or we could just call the mother names.

[Tansy_Gold]

75. excellent post, bennywhale

I was gonna say the same things!


;-)

[XemaSab]

52. I think you raise some valid points

while your posts do smack of racism and classism, these people are stupid in a way that transcends race and class.

Not only did I not have the interest in having sex at age 10, I didn't have the opportunity and I DID know how babies were made.

After the first girl got knocked up, the mother should have realized that she needed to talk to her daughters about safe sex and about not being moms while still in high school or middle school (or the British equivalents).

These people are appalling.

[eissa]

59. I knew how babies were made at that age, too

I don't see how you can live in the west and NOT know. Now my mother and aunts who come from the middle east said they didn't know even the basics (including where babies came from) until they neared marrying age (late teens/early 20s). One of the stories I was told was of one particular aunt who went into near hysterics upon starting menstruation (at age 16), thinking she was dying -- had absolutely no clue what was happening to her.

[ninkasi]

80. Same thing happened to me...

I was younger...12...and raised by two very repressed, very Southern parents. The funny thing is that while neither of them, nor any of my brothers attended church, I was made to go every Sunday.

Even after the event, which left me in hysterics, my mother gave me as little information as possible, and never furnished any kind of sex education. They were like the present day neocons...just say no. The problem is that sometimes, very young girls aren't quite sure exactly what it is they are supposed to saying "no" to.

[bennywhale]

81. How does his/her post smack of racism? I get the class hatred bit but

can't see someone accused of racism when quite plainly they are not being racist in any way

Unless i'm missing something. Could you explain please?

[geckosfeet]

14. a whole family screaming for help

Where do you start with a family like this?

Clearly the mother has, or is on the verge of giving up. Barring any miracles the kids are condemned to follow in her footsteps. The "NO class" comment seems weirdly inappropriate for the situation. The mother must re-enforce the schools education programs and help her kids understand.

My sense is that the schools DO have a responsibility as well but they are caught between parents wanting to control everything their kids know about sex (unrealistic) and parents who want their kids to be exposed to a variety of information regarding sexuality (overkill?).

[MAlibdem]

16. "these people have NO class whatsoever"

It's hard to have class when you're struggling to get by.

[DoNotRefill]

73. Really?

I've seen people who for whatever reason ended up losing EVERYTHING. They still acted with class, they were just broke.

There's a lot more to classy behavior than being a fashion plate...

[OKthatsIT]

22. Last week, Blair's 10 Downing St Press Conference

now this explains why Blair was discussing 'generational dysfunctions' and how it had to be addressed.

Course this sort of thing has been going on in every country, all over the world. Particularly girls being raped by male family members.

In the US, I read a statistical study on co-relating alcoholism-incest victums. 1 in 4 females in the US have been molested/sexually abused in some form by a family member. The same statistic applies to alcoholism in the family.

Well, I was as shocked by those statistics as you are now.

[The Voice]

23. More.....

Jemma, the youngest sister, was the first to become pregnant, giving birth to her son T-Jay in February last year. Then, in November, Natasha, 16, who had already had two miscarriages and an abortion, had Amani. The next month, Jade, 14, gave birth to daughter Lita.

(snip)

Mrs Atkins, who had her first child at 20, said she was astonished that her daughters had become pregnant so young. "It just doesn't seem possible," she said.

"I was so shocked when I found out about Jemma. She thought I would hit the roof and didn't tell me for seven months. I only found out when I took her to buy a new bra and as she was being measured I saw her huge bump."

Jemma said: "I didn't tell anyone because I was too scared and didn't know what to do. I only told my boyfriend, who was 14 at the time, but I didn't want to have an abortion.

"He was my first love. He was great to start with, but he's got a new girlfriend now. I was so frightened when I went into hospital to have my baby. It was so painful and I was in labour for three days."

Jade said she had been determined not to do the same, after seeing all the dirty nappies and her sister enduring sleepless nights. But she became pregnant after "a one-night stand".

She said: "It was just one of those things really. I wasn't using contraception and I suppose I just thought it wouldn't happen to me."

Natasha said her pregnancy, while unplanned, had pleased her. "I don't really want to be anything but a full-time mum," she said.

The father, 38, came to see the child "from time to time", but "he's Asian and still lives with his parents, so they don't know about me or Amani".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/23/npreg23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/23/ixportal.html

If this occurred in this states, the Republican controlled media would have a field day that would spin on for years.

Nary a peep would be heard of corporate welfare queens such as Enron: negative $381 million federal tax from from 1996 to 2000.

The Voice

[VLC98]

29. 12 year old Jemma didn't tell her Mother for 7 months...

Did the Mother pay her any attention at all?

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Did she get any

pre-natal care?

[VLC98]

34. Good question....

and a shame if she didn't, as it would be free...as is birth control!

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. well if she didn't tell her rnother for that long,

then I doubt she went to the doctor. Wouldn't most doctors either advise or insist on these teens telling their moms they are pregnant?

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. They'd almost certainly advise it

(if you're going to have a baby, you know your mother would find out when it's born, and would be almost bound to notice the pregnancy before then, so you may as well tell her earlier in the hope of getting some support), but, by law, doctors in Britain cannot talk to parents about their child without the child's consent, unless it's to prevent the child from serious harm.

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problems/problempage0112.htm

[Pachamama]

79. Gee, you'd think the Mom would pay a lil attn to the youngest when the 2

older sisters were pregnant, having abortions, miscarriages etc. and maybe, just maybe check on the youngest?

This story just made me sick...and ofcourse, these three girls have a great example for being parents....

[Pert_UK]

24. Yeah, well maybe I went off the deep end a little.....

but I just hate to see children's lives being wasted and nobody doing anything to prevent it. Their mum's shoulder-shrug to rid herself of responsibility was too much for me to cope with.

And check out this beauty:

"Natasha is still with Amani’s dad, who she describes as a 38-year-old gambler. She added: “He comes to see her from time to time. But he’s Asian and still lives with his parents — they don’t know about me or Amani."

It just gets better, doesn't it? There's a word for 38 year old men who have sex with 15 year old girls.....

This story is fucking tragic and I wish only the best of luck in the world (they'll need it) to the girls. I don't even hold their pitiful government benefits against them. What I DO hate is mother's attitude, and it's something we see all too often in the UK these days.

There have always been poor people in the UK, and I certainly don't hate them. I particularly don't hate poor people simply because they are poor. To be honest, I find that suggestion far more offensive than anything I could have said.

On a happier note...."Both Jemma and Jade are still at school. Jade, now 15, is about to take four GCSEs...Jade hopes to go on to sixth form and eventually to get a job involving computers."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005230552,00.html

[holboz]

33. Six hundred pounds a week! in benefits?

That's over $1000 a week in benefits!

Sorry, the whole story is tragic but the amount of money in benefits they receive is staggering. Then again, I"m sure the Mom gets monies for her three daughters, then each daughter now receives benefits for each of their children.

I hope these girls are getting the education and counciling they so obviously need so they can do better for their own kids.

[Yupster]

44. Could that number be right?

There's no way they could be getting $ 50,000 a year from the government is there?

Is that each kid (mother) or all three put together?

Anyone from England know how this works?

They couldn't aford to send the family $ 150,000 a year n benefits. That can't be right.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. The £600 a week is for all seven of them

(it doesn't make clear if the grandmother has a job, but I assume she looks after the babies, along with her eldest daughter, while the younger 2 are at school).

It is still a surprisingly high figure to me. Some of the articles say they have their council house rent and council tax paid for them - if those amounts are included in the £600 per week, then it's just about understandable. If not, then I'll say they're getting too much, in my view.

[Pert_UK]

53. Not like the Daily Mail to distort the facts, eh?

Although strangely, the BBC were a bit slack too...

Leave it to the Sun for accuracy!

"Julie gets £250 a week, made up of £57 in income support, £51 in family allowance and the rest in tax credits.

Natasha, who is now 18, gets £120 a week in family tax credits. Neither of her sisters receives anything directly.

But no one in the family pays rent or council tax and they receive free nursery care — taking their total benefits to more than £31,000 a year"

I don't really know how Tax Credits work, but what this says to me is that the £31,000 a year includes the fact that they don't pay rent or Council Tax or for child care....which means that they don't get £31,000 a year at all.

Shit, I wouldn't want to live like that!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. All three girls are pregnant?

Is there a "mother's boyfriend" who likes 'em young somewhere in the picture?

That's usually who's at fault when a 12-year-old gets pregnant.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. If you pick up the info from all 3 articles linked

(BBC, Sun, Telegraph) you see there are (probably) 3 different fathers: a 14 year old boy (for the 12 year old mother), a 'one night stand' for the 14 year old, and a 38 year old, for the 16 year old.

[knitter4democracy]

56. Those stories might be true, but they might not be, either.

That 38 y.o. needs to be prosecuted and needs to pay support. I don't care if he is still living with his parents.

I'm not clear on who the 14 y.o.'s baby's father is--that story sounds fishy. It sounds like she's protecting someone.

All in all, it's a major mess. There are three more babies in that house to raise and take care of, and there isn't much hope without a major change in circumstances that they'll get out of poverty and get an education.

I feel sorry for all of them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

76. One article says the 14 y.o.'s 'partner' is being pursued for support

I'm not sure if the 38 y.o. is, or, if not, why not.

Some of the articles say the eldest daughter was pregnant at 16; some say she gave birth at 16; some say she's now 18; all seem to say she gave birth at the end of last year. So some of the dates are slightly out, but it's possible that she didn't get pregnant until she was 16. Now, the 38 y.o. may have been responsible for one or more of the previous unfinished pregnancies she had; but it is possible he didn't have sex with her till she was 16 - in which case he'll have broken no law in Britain.

There's a bit of hope - the middle daughter is taking 4 GCSEs, and hoping to carry on studying. That's the equivalent of at least getting a high school diploma in the US. Which does make her "I didn't understand contraception" claim harder to believe. Whether she'll manage it with the baby, and be able to get a job, I don't know. One thing I will give the Labour government, is that they have improved child care in Britain. She has a chance. They've shown the family on TV, and they actually came across as fairly level-headed (and the grandmother seemed to be accepting a bit of responsibility for the state of her children's knowledge too - though she shifted the rest of the blame from their school to central government, which seemed strange).

[knitter4democracy]

77. That sounds better.

I'm glad for the child care--it makes a huge, huge difference. I'm still sad for all involved. Family planning is hard to understand? Maybe it's that she doesn't understand her body. That's even sadder.

At least it sounds like there's hope.

[Catherine Vincent]

39. Yes, this is a tragic story.

But I think you have issues.

[Pert_UK]

40. Yes indeed....

I have BIG issues with a woman who blames the school when her 3 teenage daughters get pregnant.

[TX-RAT]

43. So do i Pert.

[Javaman]

47. In morons* ownership society, that should also include...

owning up to ones personal responsibility, but that appears that he* has conveniently forgotten that part the message.

So thusly we now have a nation of: it's not my problem, it's someone else's fault. Kinda mimics moron*, huh? How is a nation supposed to look to a prez* as a positive roll model when he can't take responsibility for his own lies and misdeeds?

So rather than take the path of responsibility, this woman looks to the school as being the person to teach the various virtues of personal responsibility to her children rather than do it herself like most parents.

This woman not a fool, she was taught to be a fool. And as "they" say, shit rolls down hill, thusly her children are fools by extension.

Oh what a wonderful world.

[bleedingheart]

54. WHERE ARE THE MEN WHO IMPREGNATED THESE GALS?

while these gals and their mother are truly "pieces of work" I want to know what 38 YEAR OLD man WHO LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS PARENTS...is doing having sex with a teenager and then he doesn't even do anything to support those kids????

I am so sorry but what about the young men who want sex with these gals and then seem to walk off without a care in the world?

but I am sure that once again...it is always the woman's fault for getting pregnant and mis-managing the househould...

[demgurl]

55. I went to school with a girl called T-Jay.

This was about 30 years ago and in Canada. I know she has moved down to the states and is married now. Her family has it's own tour company back in Newfoundland. She is a beautiful and respected person and has a couple of beautiful children.

I have never watched the Springer show so I can not comment on what the names of guests are but if you share your name with someone, on the show, this will not condemn you to a terrible life.

[bushisanidiot]

63. It's the repuke way. Rather little girls become mothers at 12 than have

abortions.

basically, the republican party is in favor of childhood pregnancy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Jeez...racist much?

2nd newsflash - calling your kids "T-Jay" and "Amani" is only going to lead to a lifetime of ridicule, burger-flipping and casual gang violence.

Yikes...

[TX-RAT]

66. blamed schools for providing poor quality sex education...

Sorry, but it looks like Sex Ed was their best class.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[daleo]

68. An interesting demographic study I read recently

Found that women who had children very young (e.g. mid teens) tended to have less children over the course of their lifetime than those who didn't have any children until their 20's. I suppose that having a child that young it makes it difficult to get married later, as it interferes with education and thus limits one's choices in the pool of potential partners later.

Note that this refers to average populations - I am sure that there are plenty of exceptional cases.

[DoNotRefill]

69. not to mention that the 16 year old...

was apparently impregnated by a 38 year old professional gambler. Here, that's a crime.

[jmc777]

72. The 16y.o had 2 miscarriages and 1 abortion.....

....before having her child.



Edit: I see that this was mentioned previously. :spank:

[Vladimir]

82. No no, of course they don't have any class

If only they spoke the Queen's english, maybe they wouldn't have been so dumb as to get knocked up and keep the babies. I mean, what is society coming to these days, anyhow? Why do we let these people live? Clearly the mother should be jailed for crimes against humnaity, the girls put into a mental institution and the babies taken away to be raised by the enlightened amongst us in the hope that they don't grow up to be the benefit-grabbing scrubbers their mothers were. But not before we change their names to protect them from a life of crime...

See? I can talk like the Daily Mail too! Hey, I know what, this is a game all the familiy can join in with - even T-Jay...