Dean Still Calls for Jail Time for DeLay

[BigBearJohn]

WASHINGTON - Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean, who famously refused to prejudge Osama bin Laden's guilt, is standing by his judgment that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay may deserve jail time for allegations of corruption.

"Tom DeLay is corrupt. No question about it," Dean said Friday. "This is a guy who shouldn't be in Congress and maybe ought to be serving in jail."

The House ethics committee is investigating whether DeLay violated congressional rules by taking foreign trips paid for by lobbyists. The Texas Republican has not been charged with a crime, but Dean said he would not apologize for saying earlier this month that DeLay "ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence."

He told The Associated Press on Friday, "Maybe I'm prophetic."

More: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050520/ap_on_re_us/dean_1

[kenny blankenship]

1. That's my leader

taking the fight to the enemy.

[lupita]

14. The picture is absolutely brilliant! thank you n/t

[KittyWampus]

22. Love That Dean Picture!

:D

[johnfunk]

44. Go ahead, punk -- make the Doctor's day!

n/t

[DebJ]

61. "Go ahead. Make my day."

[Parche]

2. delay

Jail time.....hell NO....send him to Guantanamo

[rodeodance]

3. he is OK

[BigBearJohn]

4. Nah, he might enjoy it too much

[Renew Deal]

17. lol

:spank:
:woohoo:

[gratuitous]

5. Why judge DeLay and not bin Laden?

Easy: I've seen evidence of DeLay's corruption. What evidence is there against Osama bin Laden? I know that it's the conventional wisdom to say that bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks, but I've not seen the results of any investigation of that allegation, nor have I seen any facts to back up that assertion.

Well, we have the Bush administration's many stern statements, but they haven't exactly been the most reliable source of information over the last four or five years, if you know what I mean.

[Pirate Smile]

7. Howard's response to that question:

"Asked whether he was rushing to judgment, the former Vermont governor said with a laugh, "I got in trouble because I wouldn't convict Osama bin Laden. Maybe I've learned something."'

:)

[Journeyman]

10. Remember when Powell promised us a White Paper on al Qaeda guilt. . .

back around the third or fourth week of September, 2001? The evidence is forthcoming, said the Secretary of State. Yet hours later the White House overruled him and we've not heard a peep about evidence ever since. . .

[hollowdweller]

37. I don't think Bin Laden knew about 9/11 till after the fact

I think he is mostly a spiritual leader and gave training and indoctrination in Afghanistan.

As I recall he denied being responsible for it at first, then later copped to it. To me this means he was not the mastermind of the attack, and that it took a while for word that it was some of his people did it.

On the Frontline documentary, "Son of Al Quaida" the fellow who purported to know Bin Laden claimed that prior to the attack Bin Laden kept telling them something big was gonna happen but he didn't know what it was.

[JRob]

49. It was probably still at the "framers"... n/t

[Imagevision]

58. Delay we've got our hads on!!

I'm with Dean, one of these creeps should do a stretch!

[dchill]

59. Absolutely!

There's far more evidence in the Downing Street Memo that Bush lied than there is evidence that bin Laden was the "mastermind" of 9/11. Far more evidence in the CBS TANG story that Bush was AWOL... Far more evidence in the 2004 Exit Polls that Kerry actually won...

[Straight Shooter]

6. Dean IS prophetic. He's nailed it every time.

I've lost count of the times when Dean said something and Merkins got their undies in a twist and "how dare he say that" blah-blah-blah. But every time he turned out to be absolutely correct.

Keep the heat on "Bugsy" DeLay. Don't let that cockroach scurry into the dark corners of the right wing shelter.

[PassingFair]

15. How far down the rabbit hole ARE we...

when telling the truth is understood as prophesy?

[ozone_man]

24. Pretty far down.

We have spineless Congressmen like Barney Frank that apologize for someone willing to speak the truth. There's so much House cleaning that needs to be done.

DeLay spokesman Dan Allen said Friday, "Howard Dean's latest outrageous antics are the reason why his own party tries to distance themselves from him and the reason why Congressman Franks rebuked him for his original remark." Democratic Rep. Barney Frank (news, bio, voting record), a harsh critic of DeLay, has said Dean was out of line for talking about jail time for the majority leader.

[MADem]

41. Where you stand depends on where you sit (re: Barney)

Barney came VERY close to being run out of the House on a RAIL because his boyfriend at the time was doing a JimmyJeff "escort" thing while LIVING IN Barney's TOWNHOUSE. There was a RUSH TO CONVICT, and Barney remembers those days with a great big shudder.

I'm not saying I agree with Barney's reticence on this particular issue, I am simply pointing out this bit of history as a possible explainer for his stance.

[Kurovski]

46. I'm beginning to look at all this

as an elaborate dance in the Democratic party.

Soon, it will be clear that there is something important, even essential, to be found for every American in the Democratic party.

It's all a matter of how the Dems can get its basic message of fairness, progress, fiscal responsibility and equity out to a divergent population, many who are firmly set in how they perceive politics, government, and America itself.

That's just a vague guess about what all the distancing MIGHT be about.

In fact, the Republicans are the ones who should be distancing themselves from DeLay if they want to keep from loosing a few thousand or so Republican voters.

I think Dean was in a better position to speculate on the guilt of DeLay than he was the guilt of Osama bin Laden. At least that's what I've learned from this particular diversionary accusation on the part of the RW, hell-bent as they are to save helpful dirty-dealer DeLay.

The Dems have a far way to go to catch up to the level of hypocrisy that the Republicans now regularly use as a tool to promote themselves.

Dean, IMHO, is just about as decent a man we have in the Democratic party. And I think he understands how to get moderate voters who are disgusted with how BIG money sullies the process in this country. I also remember reading many dozens of articles about how much Americans love a strong, firm leader, regardless of where that leader is taking them.

Those Americans must also be brought into the party.

Edit: House members are expected to keep a reasonable level of comity among themselves. Perhaps Frank was volunteered to keep the veneer from peeling. The same with apologies, it's just what they do.

I don't see it as Frank being "spineless", or anything similar. His past proves otherwise.

[cascadiance]

54. We need to make Americans more discriminatory of what kind of "strong"...

leader we should have!

Dean, IMHO, is just about as decent a man we have in the Democratic party. And I think he understands how to get moderate voters who are disgusted with how BIG money sullies the process in this country. I also remember reading many dozens of articles about how much Americans love a strong, firm leader, regardless of where that leader is taking them.

Those Americans must also be brought into the party.

I think Lackoff's tapes of framing stuff is a good one. But don't stop in trying to frame the discussion in favor of the "nuturing mother" philosophy as opposed to the "strong father" philosophy.

For some who regard the "nurturing mother" philosophy as alien to them and can't see beyond the "strong father" philosophy, perhaps for them it's time to break down and distinguish between "good" strong father and "bad" strong father influences. Make the point that's not just enough to have a strong leader, but it's also important to know and support what that person is leading us towards.

One could make a documentary showing examples of "bad" strong father leaders (i.e. Hitler, Stalin, etc.) and note the trouble their followers got in by not at some point questioning where those leaders were leading them to. Then poke holes in what the Bush administration is doing to show the failings there in that "strong leadership".

Finally say that we also want "strong leadership", but a leader that backs it up with traits of wisdom, and a sense of fairness in that leader's values to help shape where we should go. And a leader that knows the time when he/she needs to step forward and not "wait" for someone else to lead, but also know when it is time in other cases to step back and let "nuturing mother" leadership roles to work on some problems in some instances.

The key is trying to elevate the understanding of these moderates that there are *BAD* strong leaders, and show how folks like Delay, Bush, Rove, etc. are in that mold.

[Kurovski]

63. I think that many moderates might

be learning from personal experience what a "bad father" is as they see what is happening with the economy.

A "good father" does not engage in lies that get his children killed.
Again, there is enough evidence to convince many more that we were led to Iraq based on lies.

Dean always questioned the truth of what the administration said about the war, and he did it in very strong terms. I hope many of those who like strong, positive leadership will take note of this and join the Democrats in making it a well-rounded, reasonable and STRONG party for all Americans.

Just as important is to help bring that same strength to our interactions with the world, which will hopefully still be capable of meeting us in kind.

I don't know that one can "make' anyone more discriminatory, but certainly, and given the Bush record, we should make a conscious effort to be there as a strong option for the dismayed and even disgruntled Americans who have been disappointed by the Bush Administration who had promised strong leadership in a time of crisis, and failed.

I appreciate your thoughtful post, calipendence.

[cascadiance]

64. I think the key is that we try to help them be more discriminatory

with their thoughts, not with prejudicial actions towards others. We may be born black and white and can't change our skin color, but we can show them that not all issues are "black and white" in the way they might see them, and help them refine their ways of sorting out what is "black and white".

[leesa]

8. "famously refused to prejudge Osama bin Laden's guilt"

Wow! The standard of our judicial system is an anomaly.

[Democat]

16. Look at how the media bashes Democrats and Dean

Fair and balanced.

[killbotfactory]

23. boogeymen don't deserve fair trials

What's saddam being charged with, BTW?

[JRob]

48. Yeah that one hit me funny too... n/t

[arcos]

9. Shove it Barney Frank!

I've always loved Frank, but he disappointed me with his criticism of Dean.

[chaumont58]

11. I agree with you, I don't understand Barney's giving the time of day

for DeLay's sake. Innocent untill proven guilty in a court of law, but the beltway whores never had a problem with convicting the Clintons of crimes too numerous to mention. The shoe is on another foot, and Barney rides to the bugman thugman's rescue? Just what we need, more namby pamby Democrats.
I have written in numerous occasions, the Democrats are in an Eastern Front type struggle with the repukes. Take no prisoners, and kill the wounded.
The bugman thugman respects only raw naked force.

[Chicago Democrat]

52. Hey 99% right is a good average....

plus Barney is a Congressperson, those priveleges do have merit. All that said, there is so much evidence against Delay, its hard to make a difference between facts and guilt.

[Hatalles]

56. What's Frank's e-mail?

Someone had posted Wes Clark's recent comments (may have been on Greatest Page) saying that party members need to stick together and shoot for the same goals instead of in-fighting. We have our aims, fighting amongst ourselves isn't helping.

[Vinca]

12. Sounds like a plan as long as we're never subjected to . . .

the "Hammer" in his skivvies on the front page of the newspaper. AAAARRRGGGGHHH!

[annabanana]

19. ...well, thanks for THAT visual..

sheesh

[CountAllVotes]

13. alas!

Has Dean finally woke up?

Get with it PLEASE!

:kick:

[BigBearJohn]

18. Kick for the 5 o'clock folks

[Cha]

20. This "arrogance of power" has been going on too long!

"In the AP interview, Dean accused Republicans of abusing their powers by pushing to change Senate rules to make it easier to confirm President Bush's judicial nominees. If the effort fails, the GOP will be politically weakened, he said. If the rules are changed, voters will "see the arrogance of power in the Republican Party."

"It's a win-win for us," the Democrat said."


I see where delay's spokesman is giving the line that they always give out ..better to hypnotize the American voter.

Dean is a "fiesty little bastard"!:P

[Up2Late]

21. Love it! Great Quotes

``Tom DeLay is corrupt. No question about it,'' Dean said Friday.

``This is a guy who shouldn't be in Congress and maybe ought to be serving in jail.'':woohoo:

Thank you Howard:patriot:

[Robworld]

25. Why cant the democrats just let Delay break the law

http://www.dumdumgoestothecircus.com /

[llmart]

26. And this is why I backed Dean in the primaries.......

and gave him more money than I've ever given a Dem in my life. Any time I got a letter from the DNC requesting money, I'd tell them they wouldn't get one red cent from me until they quit with the mamby pamby catering to Repugs.

[Kurovski]

47. Same history here. NT

[Carolab]

57. Ditto. n/t

[Eloriel]

62. and me too along with TENS of THOUSANDS of others

and we weren't wrong.

[MiniMe]

27. Can we take pics in his underwear if he is in Jail?? N/T

[Moderator]

28. kick to combine

[Blaze Diem]

29. Dean Says Delay is Corrupt

Dean still says DeLay may deserve jail

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean, who famously refused to prejudge Osama bin Laden's guilt, is standing by his judgment that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay may deserve jail time for allegations of corruption.
"Tom DeLay is corrupt. No question about it," Dean said Friday. "This is a guy who shouldn't be in Congress and maybe ought to be serving in jail."

The House ethics committee is investigating whether DeLay violated congressional rules by taking foreign trips paid for by lobbyists. The Texas Republican has not been charged with a crime, but Dean said he would not apologize for saying earlier this month that DeLay "ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence."

Asked whether he was rushing to judgment, the former Vermont governor said with a laugh, "I got in trouble because I wouldn't convict Osama bin Laden. Maybe I've learned something."



As a Democratic presidential candidate in December 2003, Dean refused to say whether bin Laden should be tried in the United States and put to death for terrorism. "I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials," Dean said in 2003.

DeLay spokesman Dan Allen said Friday, "Howard Dean's latest outrageous antics are the reason why his own party tries to distance themselves from him and the reason why Congressman Franks rebuked him for his original remark." Democratic Rep. Barney Frank, a harsh critic of DeLay, has said Dean was out of line for talking about jail time for the majority leader.

Allen also said of Dean's remark on Friday: "That's what we've come to expect from a party that has no agenda, no solutions and no ideas."

In the AP interview, Dean accused Republicans of abusing their powers by pushing to change Senate rules to make it easier to confirm President Bush's judicial nominees. If the effort fails, the GOP will be politically weakened, he said. If the rules are changed, voters will "see the arrogance of power in the Republican Party."

"In either case, it's a win for Democrats so long as we fight and don't compromise," the Democrat said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-21-dean-delay_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

[Melodybe]

30. I love Dean, I hate that POS article

how condesending can they be?

:puke:

[Blaze Diem]

32. Me too..

Write it however they want..Dean is saying it like it is.
Delay and much of the corrupt Bush naziconglomerates guiding America straight to the depths of hell, should be hauled along wih Delay, in shackels and cuffs.
Bunch of lying murderous fascists.

Hope Dean "screams" it loud and clear across this Nation.
People need to hear the truth.

[Melodybe]

31. dupe

deleted

[Tigress DEM]

33. Letter to the editor:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-21-dean-delay_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

How does a DeLay spokesperson know ANYTHING about what the Democratic Party feels about Howard Dean and his remarks? What is his source material? I can tell him that on the Democratic Underground we like Dean just fine.

Democrats may light fires under our leaders to get them to understand that we mean business, but that has nothing to do with our support of people who speak truth to power. THAT is unwavering.

Democrats who know what's going on behind closed doors are sick and tired of being lied to by this administration. PERIOD.

RE Allen's final comment about Dean's remark on Friday: "That's what we've come to expect from a party that has no agenda, no solutions and no ideas."

Here's an agenda item for you, Dan, how about we put all those who break the law and then abuse their authority as head of the ethics committee to make themselves untouchable for ethics violations in jail?

Here's a solution for you, Dan, how about some bi-partisan political committment to put what is best for all Americans ahead of the few, the proud, the filthy rich?

The DEMS have many more solutions, but because we are the minority fighting against these insane appointments that insult the integrity of the Constitution and all the subsequent laws of the land, we can't get out there and debate about anything but how your party can't "get over" the fact that they aren't the party of God and therefore free of any sin.

If the Republican party can't deal with playing by the rules that have worked for this country for over 200 years without whining about not getting their way more than 95% of the time, then just quit. Take your ball and go home like spoiled children and leave the decision making to the mature adults.

[Whoa_Nelly]

34. Dean on "Meet the Press" this Sunday

Should interesting to hear all he has to say.

[truthisfreedom]

35. this is an article that (unexpectedly) highlights Dean's strengths.

he's spectacularly resilient.
he's very aware of everything going on around him.
he knows exactly who he is.
he's uncorruptable.

[gorbal]

36. You can tell why the republicans are such a strong party.

Look how quickly fellow Democrats distance themselves from Dean, instead of standing behind him. They suck all the life out of the party by being apologists for the republicans.

I'm not saying that republicans don't distance themselves from each other, they are just more canny polititions in that reguard. I will give them that, when in doubt they just say nothing. How often do you hear them critique each other in public? That unity leads to a much stronger political force.

[lonestarnot]

38. If anyone should ever be in jail, this is one bastard should be.

[w4rma]

39. So do I. And screw the Associated Press for their first sentence smear

A misleading smear that gives no background or context. Only a line directly from Repuke talking points. Biased, corrupt news outlet.

[grannylib]

40. Hope he never backs down and apologizes like Reid did for his comments

about the Cowardly 'Leader.'
Go Howard!

[Puzzler]

42. See how the MSM frames Dean in the opening sentence?

"Howard Dean, who famously refused to prejudge Osama bin Laden's guilt, is standing by his judgment that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay may deserve jail time for allegations of corruption."

They gotta get in an anti-Dean dig, right at the opening sentence (see above).

The point is that Dean has this amazing concept of a fair trial... for EVERYONE... including you, me, terrorists, and yes, even Tom Delay.


-P

[Cha]

43. Yes, the US msm always does this with Dems

and especially high profile Dems.


Actually what delay has done is closer to treason than anything and they hang traitors, don't they?

Welcome to DU, Puzzler!

[Chicago Democrat]

45. Thank you Howard... Support the DNC folks!

Its not the same DNC anymore.

[La Coliniere]

50. That a boy Howard!

Tough talk is what we need right NOW! We need relentless speakers of the truth who aren't afraid of upsetting the status quo or spineless guppies like Barney Frank. Make your case good Doctor, make your case.

[Chicago Democrat]

51. Tell Dean you SUPPORT HIM!

Give to the DNC!


Write a Contact Us email at their website:

http://www.democrats.org/index.html



Way to go Dean...

[SKKY]

53. He took the gloves off a while ago...

...now it appears he's finally breaking out the brass knuckles. Well done Howard!!!!

[Massachusetts]

55. Go Howard!

[oxbow]

60. Notice how the article has 4 stars too

The repugs must really love that opening dig.

[Gin]

65. He is, and was terrific....no backing down...he knows his responses

and he was terrific w/Russert.

The man speaks clearly and defines what the democrats stand for better than any senator we now have.

[agincourt]

66. Notice how they twist in Osama,

every chance they can. They do fear Dean.