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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 08:39 PM
Original message
Early Version of New Patriot Act Gives Administration Everything
Early Version of New Patriot Act Gives Administration Everything It Asks for, GOP Aides Say

The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is working on a bill that would renew the Patriot Act and expand government powers in the name of fighting terrorism, letting the FBI subpoena records without permission from a judge or grand jury. Much of the debate in Congress has concerned possibly limiting some of the powers in the anti-terrorism law passed 45 days after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

But the measure being written by Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., would give the FBI new power to issue administrative subpoenas, which are not reviewed by a judge or grand jury, for quickly obtaining records, electronic data or other evidence in terrorism investigations, according to aides for the GOP majority on the committee who briefed reporters Wednesday. Recipients could challenge the subpoenas in court and the Bush administration would have to report to Congress twice a year exactly how it was using this investigatory power, the aides said.

The administration has sought this power for two years, but so far been rebuffed by lawmakers. It is far from certain that Congress will give the administration everything it wants this year. Roberts' planned bill also would make it easier for prosecutors to use special court-approved warrants for secret wiretaps and searches of suspected terrorists and spies in criminal cases, the committee aides said.

Eight expiring sections of the law that deal with foreign intelligence investigations would become permanent, they said. So, too, would a provision that authorizes wiretapping of suspected terrorists who operate without clear ties to a particular terrorist network. The aides spokes on condition of anonymity because Roberts has yet to make public the bill's contents. Opponents of expanding the Patriot Act said Roberts' proposal would amount to an expansive wish list for the administration. "While we're fighting to bring provisions ... back into balance with the Bill of Rights, here we have the intelligence committee moving to give the government more power outside the judicial system to gain access to records of Americans," said former GOP Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia, a critic of the law.
Lisa Graves, the American Civil Liberties Union's senior counsel for legislative strategy, said the new subpoena power would "be a dramatic expansion of secret search powers."

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB00Y18W8E.html
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. The only terrorist I know is Georgie Bush.
He's scares the shit out of me.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I'll second that one!
Same here!
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. GOP knows time is running out-they want to SEAL this EVIL Pat 2 Deal
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's unconstitutional.
They cannot make themselves immune from a judge. They would be stupid to include that and get the entire thing shot down only to have to rewrite it.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Maybe a whacko Federalist Society judge. (nt)
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. "a provision that authorizes wiretapping of suspected terrorists
who operate without clear ties to a particular terrorist network"

In other words, they can wiretap anyone at anytime for any reason, such as engaging in a protest.
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. looks like it
n/t
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Identical To Hitler's "Enabling Act"
How does removing our civil liberties keep us "safe from terrorists"?
It doesn't.
It only helps the corrupt in power, obtain more power.

DEFEND The Constitution. Don't allow Bush to trash it.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
50. Dumbya's Enabling Act
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. May it fail. n/t
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Everything the Nazis did was legal when they did it.."
Edited on Wed May-18-05 09:06 PM by paparush
I remember reading that somewhere...Don't know enough History to know if this is completely accurate, but it feels right on.
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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
56. Oh, it was legal alright
Instead of going for an open revolution against the sitting government, the Nazi party, once they were in power, began to remove the laws that hindered their plan. And once Hitler became Chancellor, a law was passed that gave him permission to rule Germany through Emergency "Bills" that would bypass the normal procedures of voting.

None of what the Nazis did (post-1933) was illegal, as the Nazis simply made it legal.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Passed within 45 days of 9/11, they must think we are stupid.
A planned assault on freedom, charged through by a cynical use of the grief and fear of a nation.

They needed "a pearl harbour" they got one, and America is one step closer to Tyranny.

WAKE UP AMERICA THIS IS BECOMING A NIGHTMARE
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. "Passed within 45 days of 9/11". Meaning it was written before 9/11?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. What do you think?
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I know; "just a reminder" :-)
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. I cannot believe this.
I just cannot.

I didn't raise my children so that they could live in a country with no Bill of Rights!



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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. I Wish My Republican Dad Had Told Me...
Edited on Fri May-20-05 12:51 PM by thecai
...(what fascists some Republicans are), 35 years ago, so I could have been better prepared than this!
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Terroist groups like Food not Bombs ? Pat?
Let the FBI tell us who they investigated since the act first past and let us judge if they investigate only terrorist suspects.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. sigh
it just keeps getting better and better...

:sarcasm: (just in case)


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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why not eliminate the courts completely...
and have the FBI sentence everyone as well? After all, they wouldn't be under investigation if they were innocent, would they?
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. here we go again folks
We are sooooooooooooo screwed!


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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why is everyone so paranoid?
Real ID is coming very soon. The legislation was passed with little outcry and zero debate by both House and Senate just last week because lawmakers snuck it into a massive $82 billion military spending bill, and therefore no one was really paying much attention and this is the way you get thorny disturbing culturally demeaning bills to pass without resistance from smart people who should know better.

The new law will, according to the Wired News story linked above, require everyone to hand over not one, not two, but fully four types of documentation to renew their driver's license, such as a photo ID, a birth certificate, proof that their Social Security number is legit and something that validates their home address, like a phone bill. DMV employees will then have to verify the documents against giant teeming federal databases and store the documents and a digital photo of you in a database. Isn't that fun? Doesn't that sound gratifying?

<snip>

Computer (RFID) microchip? Likely. Digital fingerprint? Sure. Political affiliation? You bet. Web-site-visit log and religious affiliation and recent sperm count and arrest record and drug addictions and medical history and blood type and gender orientation and parent's/children's home address and number of personal blog posts calling Dr. Phil a "slug-licking ego-bitch charlatan" and your recent purchase history on shotathome.com? One guess.

Make no mistake: Real ID, in short, takes us one happy step closer to a total surveillance state, where everyone is stamped and everyone is watchable and everyone is traceable and unless you live way, way off the grid out in the increasingly nonexistent hinterlands, you cannot escape the spazzy and twitchy and paranoid eye of Homeland Security.

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_17756.shtml



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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Never, ever, thought I'd see Bob Barr actually say something that was
(common)sensical & right! I gotta get an aspirin ... I think there's something wrong w/me - I'm hallucinating!

snip/
"While we're fighting to bring provisions ... back into balance with the Bill of Rights, here we have the intelligence committee moving to give the government more power outside the judicial system to gain access to records of Americans," said former GOP Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia, a critic of the law.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. Barr has fought the PATRIOT Act since the beginning. He is a former

federal prosecutor and he says the PATRIOT Act is full of stuff law enforcement had wanted for years and they just rammed it through after 9/11. He's VERY concerned about privacy rights. Before the GOP redistricted Georgia and managed to get Barr defeated, he was my Congressman and often wrote me letters about various privacy issues. I must admit he also answered my letters with letters that seemed as if he'd read what I said (or the staffer writing the letter for his signature had.) I guarantee you don't get that from Rep. Phil Grin-grey or Sen, Saxby Shameless, nor did you get it from Sen. Zell Miller, though Zell was a good governor. I haven't had any dealings with Zell's Repub replacement, Johnny Isaakson, but don't expect much from him. Maybe he'll be a bit better than Sen. Shameless, though. Truly, I miss Bob Barr.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. Dear lurking Republicans..
I know you're out there, you always are. Hello.

Remember when Clinton was President, and you all had those bumper stickers? You know "I Love My Country, but Fear My Government"? Remember those? Well.. seems I've been seeing those on the progressive and liberal cars lately. Remember when you guys were always screaming that the Government was becoming too big? Too powerful, perhaps? Remember when you felt the Constitution was not being adhered to?

Well... here's the deal. Whether any of us want to admit it, we're kinda finding ourselves in the same boat lately. What if we suddenly realized we actually had some common ground in thinking that the Administration is completely out of control. Do you all want the government to have more powers to poke, prod, and spy on us all? Are you happy with the record enormity of the government now? Lost some jobs over there in your towns? Called customer service on your credit card only to go round and round with someone in India who had no freakin' clue what you're talking about? (and you're wondering what poor American schmuck lost that job)?

The Patriot Act is cloaked in that ridiculous name because it's something that real patriots would oppose, if they realized how far reaching it is into our lives. We here at DU are every bit as concerned about catching terrorists, and reducing the threats to our Country and people. The 9/11 attack did not differentiate between political parties... we all lost.

C'mon admit it, if only to yourself, this is NOT the country you signed on for when you voted for Bush and the mega-millionaire politicans in power right now.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Kick to you progressivebydesign
that was a great post.

This is fucking coocoo bananas alright.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. Thanks! I think both sides would be shocked that we share some ideas NT
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. Awesome post!!!!!!!!!
Just so you know posts like that are sooooo important. It was posts like that, that converted me. Many Republicans look at this site. My conversion would have gone even quicker if not for all the "dumb" jokes about Republicans. Many people have no clue and don't even know how to get one. Sometimes I think we sort of shoot ourselves in the foot by making fun of the other party. Posts like the one you wrote is the most effective tool out there. Keep it up. Convert some more.

:yourock:
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. You rock, too, Converted Democrat! Welcome!! n/t
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. So true ! I live in a VERY RED State and know a lot of Republicans...
Politics (mostly a matter of bad information) aside, they are regular people. And I've enlightened quite a few, not by making fun and insulting but by exposing them to information and facts that they would otherwise never see...
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
40. It's a CONSERVATIVES WORST NIGHTMARE ! ! !
That's exactly right! NOW, if you are not too stubborn to admit the truth stand up for OUR American way of life, however flawed it is (WAS) still the best in the world...
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
53. Nice post.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
59. I post similar thoughts on yahoo message boards
--of course not as well stated as you have done, but it's the thought, eh?

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. If there is no filibuster, this outrage will become law
Edited on Thu May-19-05 12:19 AM by IndianaGreen
and each and every one of us can become its first victims.

Having a DU Meetup in Guantanamo is not my idea of a good time!
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
23. kick
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
24.  GOP Aides Say New Patriot Act Obliges Bush


By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press WriterWed May 18, 8:12 PM ET

The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is working on a bill that would renew the Patriot Act and expand government powers in the name of fighting terrorism, letting the FBI subpoena records without permission from a judge or grand jury.

Much of the debate in Congress has concerned possibly limiting some of the powers in the anti-terrorism law passed 45 days after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

But the measure being written by Sen. Pat Roberts (news, bio, voting record), R-Kan., would give the FBI new power to issue administrative subpoenas, which are not reviewed by a judge or grand jury, for quickly obtaining records, electronic data or other evidence in terrorism investigations, according to aides for the GOP majority on the committee who briefed reporters Wednesday.

Recipients could challenge the subpoenas in court and the Bush administration would have to report to Congress twice a year exactly how it was using this investigatory power, the aides said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050519/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act_1&printer=1
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. "...subpoena records without permission from a judge or grand jury..."
Edited on Wed May-18-05 11:35 PM by paineinthearse
ummmmm.....wouldn't that be a violation of the seperation of powers clause?

:shrug:
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. silly wabbit, you are stuck in 9/10 mind set, like me n/t
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. That would be a big change in the system as we know it. NT
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. they already do, I believe
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Simple question. WHAT "terrorism"?
The most overrated problem in the world today must be "terrorism."

Bad enough that it became the American narrative--the same tired shit we're going to hear for the next 25 years, dribbling from the mouths of our useless pols and filling the multiplex with its Dolby thunder.

But as we see with both the war and the Patriot Act, "the war on terrorism" is now perfectly serviceable as a fig leaf for every despicable urge that grips our leaders.

Sigh. Yet another reason why we need an effective opposition party. Maybe we'll have to invent one.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I think its pretty clear there is no opposition....
Probably not at all until the voting system is first fixed, because for a few years now the rigged malfunctioned elections have favored republicans.

http://www.cronus.com/electionfraud
http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2005/02/12/20050212-B1-00.html
http://www.thousandreasons.org/get_article.php?article_id=13
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/11/04_Palast.html
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

Since they no longer really care I guess you could say about opposition, one has to drive them back appropriately until democracy is scraped back out of their hands. :shrug:
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
31. "which are not reviewed by a judge or grand jury"



History ALWAYS REPEATS itself.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
32. As the Germans say;
"Same shit, different asshole"
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
34. Plan Would Broaden F.B.I.'s Terror Role(Patriot act II)

scary stuff here!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/politics/19terror.html?ei=5094&en=db260b353532847c&hp=&ex=1116561600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

May 19, 2005

Plan Would Broaden F.B.I.'s Terror Role

By ERIC LICHTBLAU
WASHINGTON, May 18 - The Bush administration and Senate Republican leaders are pushing a plan that would significantly expand the F.B.I.'s power to demand business records in terror investigations without obtaining approval from a judge, officials said on Wednesday.

The proposal, which is likely to be considered next week in a closed session of the Senate intelligence committee, would allow federal investigators to subpoena records from businesses and other institutions without a judge's sign-off if they declared that the material was needed as part of a foreign intelligence investigation.

...........

But word of the proposal on Wednesday generated immediate protests from civil rights advocates, who said that it would give the F.B.I. virtually unchecked authority in terror investigations, and the plan is likely to intensify the growing debate in Congress over the balance between fighting terrorism and protecting privacy rights.

"This is a dramatic expansion of the federal government's power," said Lisa Graves, senior counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington. "It's really a power grab by the administration for the F.B.I. to secretly demand medical records, tax records, gun purchase records and all sorts of other material if they deem it relevant to an intelligence investigation
.......
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. dupe
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
38. Early Version of New Patriot Act Gives Administration Everything
if you can control it, bypass it...

Early Version of New Patriot Act Gives Administration Everything It Asks for, GOP Aides Say

By Mark Sherman Associated Press Writer
Published: May 18, 2005

WASHINGTON (AP) - The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is working on a bill that would renew the Patriot Act and expand government powers in the name of fighting terrorism, letting the FBI subpoena records without permission from a judge or grand jury.

Much of the debate in Congress has concerned possibly limiting some of the powers in the anti-terrorism law passed 45 days after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB00Y18W8E.html
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
39. And here is why the damned filibuster is so freakin important
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
43. At some point no one will respect their ridiculous laws.
respect is a two-way street and they have squandered any chance of our respecting them.

The Rule of Law protects them too. All I am saying.
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Democracy White Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. Okay, this is scaring
the shit out of me. I don't know if I will want to live under this fascist state. Too bad I don't have the means to get to Canada.

When is the civil war and where can I sign up?

Dee
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WhatHappenedToTheGOP Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I believe if this total RAPE
of the Constitution continues, a lot of Americans will find the means by which to get to Canada. ;)
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Drive The FASCISTS Out
We cannot let them take our country and make us move. We must stand up against the destruction of The Constitution of The U.S..
It is our DUTY as American citizens to DEFEND The Constitution. (The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts nullify it).
"If we lose our rights by force, we can take them back by force. If we lose our rights by default, we can never get them back". (author?)
Send the traitor fascists packing, while we must refuse to budge.
IMPEACH NOW and REPEAL The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts!
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Democracy White Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
63. I have a feeling
That something is going to happen to Bush by midterm, I don't know if it is impeachment or if it's going to be an assasination. My mom has been feeling it too, but she thinks he's going to be killed.

I wouldn't hope thatfor anyone, even Bush. My intuition is more inclined towards a very broadline impeachment not only for the president but the vice president and others in the adminstration.

I don't know if the Constitution allows that kind of impeachment or not.

BTW I was talking to my neighbor who is a Democrat and he doesn't feel very optimistic about Dems gaining a majority hold in 2006. I kinda have mixed feelings but I am hoping.

Dee
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
46. "...would give the FBI new power to issue administrative subpoenas"
Hell, they aren't using the ones they have now!

White House Served Enron Subpoenas

Hey, Pat! We'll we be able to ignore these subpoenas, or is that luxury reserve for your "special acquaintances" only?
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. Surely the Democrats in the Senate Will Fillibuster This
errr, oh NEVERMIND!
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
51. Kick To Raise Awareness
Bush's P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act is = Hitler's Enabling Act.
IMPEACH NOW and REPEAL The unPatriot Acts.
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
52. Prior To 9/11, The FBI Was Under Investigation For Corruption...
...on 9/12 those investigations ceased and the FBI were given more powers. The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts are nearly identical to Hitler's Enabling Act, "for protection from terrorists". Remember it was Hitler who was the ultimate terrorist, folks.
This administration has lied continuously, started a war, stolen elections, stripped away our civil liberties, government agencies have abused authority, abused and neglected the poor, the needy, the fatherless, the widows, the prisoners...
IMPEACH NOW and REPEAL The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. And Hitler also referred to his enemies as "terrorists"
It is only a matter of time before Emperor Tiberius Bushler begins to label HIS enemies in the same way.

His repulsive minions have already begun doing so. His Sturmtruppen await the day their sick fantasies can become realities.
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. The unP.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts Make News Gathering A Crime
so any dissident could be labeled "anti-American terrorist", simply by opposing or disagreeing with Bush's fascist regime, or by exposing his lies.
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
57. kick n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
58. Horrible. The plan for completing the destruction of democracy continues.
Every day, the list of things that must be fought grows longer:

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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
60. The speed of Bush's actions since....
he was un-re-elected has scared the crap out of me. All the changes are coming so fast. :scared:
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Melynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
61. Combine the "New Patriot Act" with changing the filibuster rule
which will allow Bush to appoint any judge he chooses and you have the neo-cons with total power.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
62. Giving administrative subpoena power to federal police
...violates the separation of powers provision of the US Constitution.

Administrative agencies conducting civil hearings have this power subject to judicial review because their police actions do not include the power to imprison the subjects of their rulings. A Congress that cannot make this distinction has abandoned their obligation to defend the Constitution and isn't worthy of the name.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
64. Every thinking person knows...
...that the Bush government wants to use these powers against their political enemies.
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bornagainhuman Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. LETS TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS THING
PLEAS READ AND PASS ON THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL AMERICANS!
The patriot act was a document that was passed through congress this now highly debated law was then almost unchallenged. It was pushed through just 45 days after 911 and many of the very people who voted for the passing of this bill now strongly oppose it saying that they and many others never actually read the bill. This bill gives the FBI “an organization that was under investigation before 9 11 for corruption and abuse of power” even more power.

"The measure being written by Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., would give the FBI new power to issue administrative subpoenas, which are not reviewed by a judge or grand jury, for quickly obtaining records, electronic data or other evidence in terrorism investigations, according to aides for the GOP majority on the committee who briefed reporters Wednesday"
"Eight expiring sections of the law that deal with foreign intelligence investigations would become permanent, they said. So, too, would a provision that authorizes wiretapping of suspected terrorists who operate without clear ties to a particular terrorist network. The aides spokes on condition of anonymity because Roberts has yet to make public the bill's contents. Opponents of expanding the Patriot Act said Roberts' proposal would amount to an expansive wish list for the administration. "While we're fighting to bring provisions ... back into balance with the Bill of Rights, here we have the intelligence committee moving to give the government more power outside the judicial system to gain access to records of Americans," said former GOP Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia, a critic of the law.
Wow, huh this thing is scary suspected terrorist who operate without clear ties to a particular terrorist network that sounds like another way of saying "anybody we don’t trust completely" so if you go to a protest your a suspect that is really how this could work and that scares me also finding this out I started to read some more

Statement Number One: "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Statement Number Two: "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve."

The first statement is a quote from Hitler's right hand man, Hermann Goering, explaining at his war crimes trial how easily he and his fellow Nazis hijacked Germany's democratic government. The second statement is a quote from Bush's right hand man, John Ashcroft, defending the Patriot Act and explaining why dissent will no longer be tolerated in the age of terrorism. If that doesn't send chills down your spine, nothing will.
When the shooting started at Lexington Green in 1775, those calling themselves patriots were the men and women who refused to yield their rights to an increasingly oppressive government. Today, according to John Ashcroft and his Patriot Act of 2001, a patriot is someone who kneels down in fear, and hands over his or her rights to the government in the name of fighting terrorism. Isn't the hypocrisy of this all too obvious? The Bush administration wants us to fight in Afghanistan, to fight in Iraq, and to fight wherever terrorists may be hiding. And what, pray tell, are we fighting for? Well, according to the White House, we're fighting for freedom. Yet freedom is exactly what the White House is demanding that we now SURRENDER in the name of fighting terrorism"

Yikes and then there is this what does the patriot act mean to us every day non-terrorist folks.


Ten Key Dangers of The Patriot Act
That Every American Should Know

No. 1: The government can conduct "sneak and peek" searches in which agents enter your home or business and search your belongings without informing you until long after.

No. 2: Government agents can force libraries and bookstores to hand over the titles of books that you1ve purchased or borrowed and can demand the identity of anyone who has purchased or borrowed certain books. The government can also prosecute libraries and bookstores for informing you that the search occurred or even for informing you that an inquiry was made. According to ACLU staff attorney Jameel Jaffer, such "searches could extend to doctors offices, banks and other institutions which, like libraries, were previously off-limits under the law." Chris Finan, President of the American Booksellers group adds: "The refusal of the Justice Department to tell Congress how many times it has used its powers is even more unsettling because it naturally leads to the suspicion that it is using them a lot."

No. 3: Federal agents are authorized to use hidden devices to trace the telephone calls or emails of people who are not even suspected of a crime. The FBI is also permitted to use its Magic Lantern technology to monitor everything you do on your computer--recording not just the websites you visit but EVERY SINGLE KEYSTROKE as well.

No. 4: Government agents are permitted to arrest and detain individuals "suspected" of terrorist activities and to hold them INDEFINITELY, WITHOUTCHARGE, and WITHOUT an ATTORNEY. (That could be you or me for sending or receiving this Email, by the way)

No. 5: Federal agents are permitted to conduct full investigations of American citizens and permanent legal residents simply because they have participated in activities protected by the First Amendment, such as writing a letter to the editor or attending a peaceful rally.

No. 6: Law enforcement agents are permitted to listen in on discussions between prisoners and their attorneys, thus denying them their Constitutional right to confidential legal counsel.

No. 7: Terrorism suspects may be tried in secret military tribunals where defendants have no right to a public trial, no right to trial by jury, no right to confront the evidence, and no right to appeal to an independent court. In short, the Constitution does not apply.

No. 8: The CIA is granted authority to spy on American citizens, a power that has previously been denied to this international espionage organization.

No. 9: In addition to the Patriot Act, the Bush administration has given us Operations TIPS, a government program that encourages citizens to spy on each other and to report their neighbors activities to the authorities. It's EXACLTY the kind of thing for which we used to fault East Germany and the Soviet Union, and for which we currently fault Red China and North Korea. Fortunately, Operation TIPS (or AmeriSnitch, as it's known to its many detractors) seems to have been recalled to the factory--at least for now. (Incidentally, in a clever variation of "two-can-play-at-that-game”, Brad Templeton has set up a website at http://www.all-the-other-names-were-taken.com/tipstips.html where you can report people you suspect of being informants for Operation TIPS. It's an interesting and amusing site, well worth a look.)

No. 10: In the wake of Operation TIPS came something even worse: Total Information Awareness. TIA is a program of the Defense Department that when fully operational will link commercial and government databases so that the DOD can immediately put its finger on any piece of information about you that it wants. New York Times columnist William Safire writes: "Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as a virtual, centralized grand database." And that's not all. Who did our president appoint to head the TIA? Who gets to be Big Brother himself? Why it's none other than John Poindexter, a man convicted in 1990 on five counts of lying to Congress, destroying official documents, and obstructing congressional inquiries into the Iran-contra affair. Another Hermann Goering, if there ever was one.
So letting this happen is the next step in a police state. This stuff really scares me and it really looks like we are going to turn into a police state not a democracy. It has defiently made me take a good hard look at where my political loyalties lie and I am no longer a republican after this cause this is what this administration has planned for the future

"If only this were the extent of the Bush administration's ramble down the road to fascism. Way back in November of 2001, William Safire accused the Bush administration of "seizing dictatorial power." Well, Mr. Safire, you ain't seen nothing yet. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, just when you thought we can't lose any more of our liberties and still call ourselves a "free society," we learn that the Bush administration wants to take away even more of our rights. A secret document was just leaked out of John Ashcroft's Justice Department and turned over to the Center for Public Integrity. Titled the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, this document turns out to be a draft of new anti-terrorism legislation, a vastly more muscular sequel to Patriot Act. If passed, it would grant the executive branch sweeping new powers of domestic surveillance, and it would eliminate most of the few remaining checks and balances that protect us from tyranny.

It's the Patriot Act on steroids. Charles Lewis of the Center for Public Integrity shared this document with Bill Moyers, who examined it on NOW, his weekly PBS program. That episode aired Friday, February 7, yet even now no mainstream news broadcaster has picked up this incredible story. Read the NOW transcript and see the document itself online at http://www.pbs.org/now/. You can also read the Center for Public Integrity's analysis of the document at http://www.publicintegrity.org/.

Dr. David Cole, a Law professor at Georgetown University and author of Terrorism and the Constitution assessed the document, saying, "I think this is a quite radical proposal. It authorizes secret arrests. It would give the Attorney General essentially unchecked authority to deport anyone who he thought was a danger to our economic interests. It would strip citizenship from people for lawful political associations."

"Secret arrests”? Did we hear that right? It seems that the Homeland Security Department (HSD) is about to become the KGB. The first Patriot Act already allows for people to be locked up indefinitely without a lawyer and without being charged with a crime. If Patriot Act II passes, then arrests would also be secret. That means that dissenters (or anyone else, for that matter) could disappear without a trace, just as they did in Nazi Germany, in Stalinist Russia, and in Pinochet's Chile."
Well that’s about all I have for this one if you could forward this to people to get them aware that would be great cause this has to be stopped. If there is another civil war sign me up cause this is not right this is every thing America is supposed to stand against and has stood against in the past. I for one can no longer support our president with all this coming to light and this is most certainly not what our founding fathers wanted
Benjamin Franklin in 1759, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Great Info
...and welcome to DU, "Bornagainhuman"! Thank you for the important information.
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