Senate Dems Float Filibuster Compromise (i.e.: cave to save filibuster)

[AlGore-08.com]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=762450&page=1

By DAVID ESPO AP Special Correspondent

WASHINGTON May 16, 2005 — With a showdown looming, a small group of Senate Democrats floated a compromise Monday on President Bush's stalled judicial nominees, offering to clear five for confirmation while scuttling three others.

Under the proposal, circulated in writing, Republicans would have to pledge no change through 2006 in the Senate's rules that allow filibusters against judicial nominees. For their part, Democrats would commit not to block votes on Bush's Supreme Court or appeals court nominees during the same period, except in extreme circumstances.

Officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said that Democrats involved in the compromise would vote to end any filibuster blocking a final vote on Richard Griffin, David McKeague and Susan Neilson, all named to the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Democrats would also clear the way for final votes on William H. Pryor Jr. for the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and Janice Rogers Brown for the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. Both are among the nominees most strongly opposed by organized labor as well as civil rights and abortion rights groups and others that provide political support for the Democratic Party.

Three other nominations would continue to be blocked under the offer: those of Henry Saad to the 6th Circuit Court, Priscilla Owen to the 11th Circuit and William G. Myers III to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

(More... )

[LynnTheDem]

1. Dear small group of Senate Dems;

Fuck you.

[renaissanceguy]

21. Yes.

Fuck you and switch parties. And then fuck you again.

WE DON'T BEAT THE REPUBLICANS BY ACTING LIKE THEM.

When will they learn?!?!?!


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21326737

[Total Disaster]

26. Couldn't have said it more eloquently myself...n/t

[Boneman]

33. This is the last straw for me. What is the matter with the Democrats? Hold

position. If you lose, you lose. My God.

[fob]

2. They might as well go home then, no need to keep paying Senators

who won't do their job.

Here's the compromise, they should start a filibuster right now, and DARE those fuckers to throw the Constitution in the trash can and light in on fire. Bring up every piece of dirt those filthy repukes are clouded in and keep repeating over and over.

[Pirate Smile]

3. Repubs won't accept. The whole point is to get rid of the filibuster

before Commander Cuckoo Bananas gets to pick someone for the Supreme Court.

edit for spelling: :silly:

[oxbow]

4. Ha! Let's start calling him that from now on.

Viva los Simpsons!

[Pirate Smile]

6. I keep picturing him riding a tricycle talking about his neato cool bike

and when he's going to get his training wheels off so the name just fits right in.

[regnaD kciN]

5. A "small group", eh...?

Why does the name "Lieberman" stick in my mind?

:grr:

[AlGore-08.com]

17. The article does not mention Lieberman - - it's Nelson & Pryor

who are leading the "charge" on this, after running it by Harry Ried.

[MGKrebs]

34. To be fair, Leiberman's website claims he's with Schumer on this.

I don't know who the weaklings are, but here's a list of all Dem Senators fax numbers in case you want to send something.

http://www.georgiafordemocracy.org/actionalerts/index.cfm?fuseaction=ActionDetail&actionalertid=15

[katsy]

7. I really have a problem with this.

Why compromise?

I understand the gravity of allowing these people on the bench... however, an est. 90%+ have already been installed.

10 more isn't going to kill off the judicial branch. If that were the case why bargain down to THREE that will be blocked? What the hell is going on here?

My problem here is that I want the Dems to stand the fuck up and keep their word!!!!!!

I want them to use parliamentary procedures to kill every piece of Senate work that doesn't involve a net benefit to American families and veterans. I want EVERYTHING ELSE KILLED or tied up. They should use Senate time to read from great novels... like MY PET GOAT. Think of all the damage it would prevent if these guys DID NOTHING! Corporate giveaways would be the first to die a *s l o w* agonizing sleep!

Then I want the dems to blow away the pukes when the balance of power shifts!

Why do these bastards think it will make us any happier to know they caved??? Why are they caving?

:rant:

It sucks that the pukes have power. It sucks BIGGER to know that when the pukes paint dems as not standing up for anything... the dems play right into that role. When the Democratic party is criticized... out come the little assholes who criticize their own party. When push comes to shove... the dems look to compromise. FUCK THAT.

[Massacure]

18. If I recall correctly, Napoleon once said something along the lines

That you should give your enemies some rope when they are about to hang themselves?

[katsy]

20. How is caving and offering compromise at this point...

giving the enemy enough rope to hang themselves?

Please explain. I want to believe we have strong leadership... I REALLY do.

Giving them enough rope to hang themselves happened in the Schiavo affair... kinda, sorta, well not completely. Our leadership kept their mouths shut and people assumed that the dems wouldn't resort to undermining the judiciary. That qualified as rope to the enemy.

[Massacure]

25. Frist already said he won't accept a compromise.

Reid is just pandering toward public opinion.

[TankLV]

39. No he's not - the polls consistantly show that the "public" is

overwhelming against the repukes on this one.

If it walks like a duck, and quack like a duck...

Repuke-lite wimps don't cut it at all.

[Massacure]

41. Don't take anything for granted.

Besides, as long as Reid paints the republicans their true colors, a wedge gets driven between the GOP moderates and radicals.

[TankLV]

47. Like that'll work - like it's worked soooo well before.

sarcasm off.

[bain_sidhe]

24. and if that doesn't work

teach them to tie knots. :)

[TankLV]

38. You said it.

nt

[despairing optimist]

8. A blue herring?

It may be a way for Democrats to claim they were trying to be accommodating and reach a middle ground. I hope they weren't serious. If they were, look for the Constitution to be negotiable piece by piece too.

[jbond56]

9. yep

Karl Rove will not settle for Owen being blocked. To much time invested and money raised.

[bain_sidhe]

12. Great minds doing that "thinking alike" thing! n/t!

[bain_sidhe]

10. Hold your fire... this could be brilliant stratergery

Notice that one of the nominees that would continue to be blocked is Rove's protoge, Priscilla Owen? No way Rove will let them accept this "compromise". Pubs will come off looking even more extremist, if they don't accept, Rove will experience a rare rebuff from the pubs if they do.

[katsy]

15. Explain...

Call me STUPID but taking a position... then changing it to FAVOR your opponent doesn't seem like much of a strategy.

In my book... they're choking.

[bain_sidhe]

22. Not calling you stupid!

But, the question in my mind is does this "change of position" really "favor" our opponent if they can't accept the change? More likely, by not accepting it, they lose even MORE support for *their* position.

Of course, all the gloom-and-doomers might be right, too. Maybe the Dems are just caving. But I've been watching Reid's jujitsu on this issue in the last couple of months, and I think there's a real possibility he's taking a calculated risk that the pubs will HAVE to reject this "offer" - and that their rejection of it will hurt the pugs and help the Dems.

[katsy]

27. Okay.

" More likely, by not accepting it, they lose even MORE support for *their* position. "

-------------------

Okay. Now do you think if the gop goes through with the rule change, the dems will follow through with parliamentary procedures to slow the senate's work?

BTW... I didn't think you were calling me stupid. I was just feeling stupid for feeling ballistic over this. I want the dem leadership to stand up for themselves. If they can't do that... they aren't standing up for us.

:pals:

[bain_sidhe]

31. if it happens

The last I read was Reid is planning on a three-pronged slowdown strategy.

First, to refuse to agree to passing many bills by way of the "unanimous consent" roster. A lot of "routine" (uncontroversial) bills are put on a list for "unanimous consent," and passed in bulk on a voice vote. But if even one Senator objects to a bill's presence on the list, that bill has to be debated and voted on separately.

Second, there's the reading of the bill. Theoretically, each bill has to be read out loud twice before there can be a vote on it. In practice, the Senate almost always waives the reading of the bill. But, again, one Senator (I think) can object to the waiver, and the bill then has to be read out loud.

Third, there is a "rule" by which a bill can go directly to the floor for debate and a vote. Most bills are sent to a committee, and this is where Democratic bills go to die, as the committe chair (ALWAYS a member of the "majority party) can simply refuse to let them be brought up in, let alone voted out of, the committee. But Reid has announced his intention to use that rule to submit Democratic bills directly to the floor. He's got a great list of bills the plans to do that with, too! I read about it at PoliticalAnimal (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_04/006190.php) but I know other places have covered it too.

Here are the nine bills they have in mind, from the link above:

Women's Health Care (S. 844). The Prevention First Act of 2005 will reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and abortions by increasing funding for family planning and ending health insurance discrimination against women.

Veterans' Benefits (S. 845). The Retired Pay Restoration Act of 2005 will assist disabled veterans who, under current law, must choose to either receive their retirement pay or disability compensation.

Fiscal Responsibility (S. 851). Democrats will move to restore fiscal discipline to government spending and extend the pay-as-you-go requirement.

Relief at the Pump (S. 847). Democrats plan to halt the diversion of oil from the markets to the strategic petroleum reserve. By releasing oil from the reserve through a swap program, the plan will bring down prices at the pump.

Education (S. 848). Democrats have a bill that will: strengthen head start and child care programs, improve elementary and secondary education, provide a roadmap for first generation and low-income college students, provide college tuition relief for students and their families, address the need for math, science and special education teachers, and make college affordable for all students.

Jobs (S. 846). Democrats will work in support of legislation that guarantees overtime pay for workers and sets a fair minimum wage.

Energy Markets (S. 870). Democrats work to prevent Enron-style market manipulation of electricity.

Corporate Taxation (S. 872). Democrats make sure companies pay their fair share of taxes to the U.S. government instead of keeping profits overseas.

Standing with our troops (S. 11). Democrats believe that putting America's security first means standing up for our troops and their families

[Warren Stupidity]

50. democrat negotiation tactics

Dems: how about three of seven?

Thugs: nope, all of 'em.

Dems: how about four of seven?

Thugs: nope, all of 'em.

Dems: how about five of seven?

Thugs: nope, all of 'em.

Dems: how about six of seven?

Thugs: nope, all of 'em.

Dems: how about all seven?

Thugs: nope, we nuke you anyhow.

[TankLV]

40. Yeah - sure. Don't hold your breath.

They'll cave on that one too.

So far they have caved on EVERYTING.

Their track record speaks for themselves.

[6th Borough]

44. I agree. The fundies are holding Frist's ass to the fire over this issue.

There will be no compromise; Frist will trigger the "nuclear option", and this offer of a compromise won't amount to a hill of beans the day after.

So, the outcome is the same; the only difference being that the Rebubs look to be even more on the extreme fringe.

[spotbird]

11. Well that's fucked up enough to be true.

We were expecting?

[Demonaut]

13. PUSSIES!!!! We have no leadership with backbones

This SO pisses me off, screw the "Can't We All Get Along" crowd.....
Give No Quarter, give NO compromises!!

[SoCalDem]

14. "If you promise not to kill us, we'll "hold still" while you rape us

:puke:

[Gothmog]

16. Reid is playing for support from centralists republicans

Frist can not compromise and keep the christian conservatives happy. Reid can offer this compromise and be fairly confident that Frist will reject the compromise. If the Democrats appear to be more flexible than the conservatives, then we have a chance.

[AlGore-08.com]

19. Unfortunately, both Reid and Daschle before him tried this strategy

Remind me again how many times it's actually stopped the far right from getting their way?

I can't remember a single time it's worked, but I'm willing to be wrong.

[renaissanceguy]

23. Once was enough.

I was convinced the first time that it was strategy.

Now, I believe these Dems have NO spine.

Look at ALL THE PUBLIC SUPPORT WE HAVE: http://www.pollingreport.com/congress.htm#Misc



http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21326737

[jbond56]

29. I understand your frustration...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1477602

But I think Reid is scoring a lot more points than people give him credit. Picking up 6 republicans is hard.

Exposing the fact repubs wont budge (i.e. filibustering) is important in the next phase.

So the last offer was all but 2. Bush gets 99% of his judges and that is not enough? think about it.

[katsy]

30. Tommorrow I may see it your way.

Today, there's no limit to my anger and frustration at the dem leadership for offering compromise. I'm afraid they will keep caving at our expense.

I question the impact this will have on voters in 2006. I'm more inclined to think that people will just as easily think of the dems as the party who caves.

[msanthrope]

32. You got it--and besides the 'compromise' is the status quo--

We will only filibuster the extremists. Good parry and thrust by Reid.

[AuntiBush]

28. How could "any" Congressional member use the words

"Compromise" and "Fillibuster" in the same sentence.

Sorry. The Fillibuster is "Freedom of Speech." If any of our leaders take that from another they are taking it away from "we the people."

On Note: FRIST is now on C-Span 2 and he does not look haughty, nor is he even looking into the camera. If I were him, I'd go back to shopping for those expensive shoes worth more than whan most can afford for food in a month.

[Teaser]

35. Not a cave

but I'm tired of explaining this to people.
Read the fine print to figure out why not. I shouldn't have to do your thinking for you.

[TankLV]

43. We HAVE read the "fine print" - it's a CAVE any way you look at it.

Don't even TRY to lecture US - it's YOU who need to bone up on just what it is that they are doing - and being a Vichy dem is not going to cut it.

They ARE caving - pure and simple - have been going this route for a long time now - you are just too blind to see it.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

[MGKrebs]

36. A promise from Frist is worthless.

I hope they know what they are doing.

[TankLV]

37. This is the last straw for me.

Unless there is some major changes in the way the dems in congress operate and vote and act, I will NOT be voting democratic any time in the forseeable future - I will sit out the next elections - for the first time since 1976. I have always voted dem "for the good of the party" even when I didn't exactly agree with all of their positions.

No more.

They have to give me REASONS (plural) for voting FOR them. So far they have continually demonstrated that they DON'T CARE for me or my beliefs or MY VOTE.

Don't like it? TOUGH! I have held my nose in increasing amounts with every passing election.

I for one am SICK and TIRED of these wimpy, cave-in, VICHY dems.

We get the same results if we would have voted REPUKE!

This is the last straw in a long line of straws.

When will the OPPOSITION party learn to OPPOSE?!?!?!

[Daphne08]

42. What will they 'cave' in on next or does it matter since

they ALL have already torn up our Bill of Rights! :mad:

Don't even get me started!!

[americanstranger]

45. Moot point.

Reid says that Frist accepted no compromise offer.

It's on.

-as

[BadNews]

46. The Dems will not filibuster ANY of these appointments.

They will all pass on a party line vote. They will save the filibuster for *'s supreme court nominees. If the filibuster is destroyed now, the public will have forgotten about the debate by the time that one of the supremes step down.

Here is how it will go (in a nut shell).
Browns name comes up for a vote and she is approved on a party line vote.

OR

A couple Dems stand up to filibuster and a hand full of others break ranks to end it.

You fight the battles you have to win and while the federal bench is important, the supremes are vital. If the filibuster is killed now, you could see a chief justice ROY MOORE because it won't even be an option when there is a high court nomination. Well probably not, but it could well be Ashcroft.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. No, No, No, No, NO!

What's the point of having a filibuster if you can't use it?

And to hand over the next Supreme Court nominee? Are they out of their freakin' minds?

[BadNews]

49. If your bullets are limited, you better make each one count!!

If we use the filibuster now and it is defeated, the public won't remember it later. Rather, we will cry foul for the couple of days it takes for the SCOTUS Nominee to get through committee then the person will be confirmed with NO debate because we will not even be able to slow the nomination. We will be renaming it the Extreme Court.

Save the ammunition for crunch time!

[Warren Stupidity]

51. That is so wrong.

Save it for the SC? That means concede the fillibuster on everything else without even a fight, even though the public overwhelming supports us on this position. That means that the SC creep comes up, we fillibuster, they nuke the fillibuster and the creep gets confirmed. Oh, and now what do we do? Run the senate by the rules and slow things down after they have creeped out the court? A bit late, don't you think?

It is time for the Senate Democrats to stand up and fight. Everyone of them has to put their jobs on the line, has to risk losing all of their corporate-fascist contributors, they have to do what is right even if it means that they lose a battle.

[BadNews]

54. I have no delusions on this.There is a good chance we will lose...

on all the judicial nominations both now and with the supremes. The question is where do you want the most publicity? I agree that killing the filibuster makes them look bad today. But if they take that hit now, they side-step what could be a blow that knocks them down later. Any supreme court nomination will garner far more coverage than these 10 clowns (and rightfully so).

Which scenario do you prefer?

1. Dems filibuster this week and they go nuclear. NEXT OCTOBER, Rehnquist steps down to give the fundies a reason to go to the polls because ROY MOORE is the new CJ of the SCOTUS. He passes on a party line vote with little or more likely NO debate allowed. No filibuster means it is one less way his appointment can be opposed and draw attention.

2. These 10 clowns are confirmed on a party line vote and when someone like Moore is nominated we can slow the process and call attention to his ineptitude. Eventually they nuke us but it is more likely that the loon is exposed and the right takes a greater beating in the election.


I would rather scenario 3 but I don't think the senators have the intestinal fortitude to pull it off.

3. Dems filibuster and they go nuclear. The Dems then use every parliamentary procedure possible to stop everything until the tide turns and we control either the senate or the presidency. I just don't think they have it in them for weeks or months of continued filibustering. I would be pleased if I were wrong about that.

[Itsthetruth]

52. Save The Ammunition? Senator Reid Makes Leiberman Look Radical!

So will the Democratic Party begin opposing the Republican Party anytime before the 2008 election?

Na. This bi-partisan unity crap in support of Bush's appointments and legislative agenda is going along just fine. That's what Senator Reid recently said about the "class action tort reform" and bankruptcy bills.

Senator Reid is almost starting to make Senator Joseph Leiberman look like some kind of radical leftist and that's not an easy task!

[AlGore-08.com]

53. This is the frog in the hot water all over again

They used to teach this in science classes - - if you try to put a frog directly into boiling water, it will immediately jump to safety.

If you put the frog in lukewarm water and slowly bring the water to a boil, the frog will not notice the changing temperature. Unless you rescue it, the frog will sit in the boiling water and die.

Look at the level of right wing wackadoos they're already proposing for the federal bench. You think Frist won't pull the old bait and switch when the Extreme Court nominations come down - - i.e. nominate David Duke only to get him shot down, so that they can wheel in the clown they really want (Gonzales or Ashcroft), who doesn't look quite as bad as David Duke, so he'll get confirmed.