Pentagon base closings hammer New England

[MaineDem]

WASHINGTON — Once a bastion of the country´s Cold War defenses, New England was dealt the biggest blow Friday by the Pentagon´s recommended base closings, losing three major bases and absorbing nearly 50 percent of the net jobs cut nationwide.

Two Naval bases _ the submarine base in Groton, Conn., and the Portsmouth shipyard in Kittery, Maine _ and Otis Air National Guard Base on Cape Cod, were targeted for closure, slashing nearly 13,500 jobs in those three facilities.

A major realignment proposed for the Naval Air Station in Brunswick, Maine, would shift 2,400 jobs out of New England´s only active duty airfield and send the aircraft to a base in Florida.

...

The total job losses across New England would be 15,524, but they would be offset by about 1,000 net new jobs, mostly at Hanscom Air Force Base in Bedford, Mass., and Naval Station Newport in Rhode Island.

http://news.mainetoday.com/apwire/D8A2J2K83-132.shtml

I hope this isn't considered a dupe. The headline is pretty dramatic.

[Bluebear]

1. Farewell, Portsmouth.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3652855

[XanaDUer]

2. On another downbeat note

Our local red-state Bushbots here in NE FL are "ecstatic" that our bases will not only stay open but be expanded.

I assume this is some sort of payback to blue states?

[hack89]

16. Rhode Island is actually gaining jobs

Two red state bases will be closed (from FL and GA) and their jobs sent here.

[DrZeeLit]

27. Helllllo... yon Rep Senator who's been "danglin' in the wind" over the

Bolton nomination....

Could that be.... arm twisting..... by..... SATAN?

Sheee-it. They should at least ATTEMPT to be less transparent.

[Sparkly]

28. Huh?

There is no comparison between what Florida and Georgia will see (Florida: the Defense Finance and Accounting Service in Orlando & the Navy Reserve Center in St. Petersburg, big whoop) and what's closing in New England, especially Connecticut.

Pentagon Base Closings Hit Conn. Hardest
By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer Fri May 13, 3:00 PM ET
WASHINGTON - The
Pentagon delivered its biggest blow to Connecticut, recommending the shutdown of four military facilities, including the U.S. Naval submarine base in Groton.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050513/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/base_closings_connecticut_1

While some bases will close, others will grow, absorbing personnel returning from overseas and leaving shut bases.
The Pentagon, for example, said Fort Bliss in Texas would pick up 11,354 troops; Fort Benning in Georgia would gain 9,221 troops; and Fort Carson in Colorado would gain 4,178 troops.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/arms_usa_bases_dc

[hack89]

51. I live in Rhode Island

and work on the Naval Station - I guess I was expressing how glad I was to still have a job

[Hotler]

60. It's all about money folks.

Base closings, push for tax cuts for home builders, redevelopment, etc.. Can you say free land to the robber barons? I wonder how much of the land that bases are on would make prime high end gated communities? How about this? Free land to malwart so they don't have to go through the city council and the citizens anymore to open a store. Move the military out. Move wackenhut in, and you now have a privatized neo-con gulag.

[Copperred]

3. Secret Ploy to Deprive the North of a Defense?

Did they recommend any base closings in the South?

I wouldnt be surprised they are thinking 50 years ahead and don't want any bases in the enlightened north...

Someone best keep an Army up here...


2cents

[americanstranger]

5. I think it's a ploy to get support for the Nuke Option.

From my blog:

Earlier this week, the NYTimes mentioned this:


There are just four core centrists in the Senate, Mr. Chafee (Rhode Island), Ms. Collins (Maine), Ms. Snowe (Maine) and Mr. Specter (Pennsylvania). They are joined from time to time by mavericks like Senators John McCain of Arizona, Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mr. Voinovich of Ohio.


Now, check this out. All of those states are on the closure list. Here's the breakdown:

Arizona: 3 bases scheduled for closure
Maine: 3 bases scheduled for closure
Nebraska: 5 bases scheduled for closure
Ohio: 9 bases scheduled for closure
Pennsylvania: 13 bases scheduled for closure

Much has been made that this round of closures is the biggest ever, and it looks as though the more moderate the Congressperson, the more bases scheduled for closure (the outlier is Maine, with 2 moderates and 3 bases to close - but 3 base closures in a tiny state like Maine would hurt as bad, if not worse, than 13 in Pennsylvania).

Call me cynical, but I'm willing to bet that the White House would be willing to cross a couple of bases off that list - letting the Senator or Congressman take credit for 'saving' the base - in exchange for support of Frist's nuclear option.

More at http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=20050513170152124

-as

[shadowknows69]

6. Fort Drum survived again

despite overkill media fearmongering about it. Anyone with any brains knew it wasn't going to be on the list this time around but our sad local stations need something to report this month. I'd say there is our northern defense but they're always deployed.

[Bake]

14. Base closings in Mississippi

Pascagoula Naval Station, closed.

Keeler AFB, Biloxi, "realigned" with net job loss.

Of course, Sens. Cochran and Lott haven't weighed in yet.

Bake

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Pascagoula has been on every hit list since Moby Dick was a minnow

And Lott's been 'saving' it every time.

Wutta guy, huh?

[HockeyMom]

15. Groton

is maybe hour and a half from NYC? Having a naval base there is not a deterrent? Port Security? Plus isn't there a nuclear facility somewhere in the area too? New Haven? Not sure.

[hack89]

19. New York has its own Coast Guard base for security.

Deterrent from what? The US military is to fight their naval battles on the other side of the Atlantic and Pacific.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Actually, it probably isn't

Groton just *happens* to be close to NYC. It could have been located anywhere in the Northeast. Grotons where it wound up and that's where it is.

Naval defense of NYC, in the highly unlikely event it is needed, would be by conventional naval ships and more likley air cover.

The actual threat of a true military invasion aimed at NYC is as unlikely as boyking saying he was wrong about everythng and becoming a regular and valued DU poster.

[hack89]

17. The problem is space

Modern armies and air forces need a lot of real estate -- you won't find the necessary open space here. The army and air force spends millions deploying forces to the west coast and southwest for large training exercises.

There were actually many closures in the South. The Navy, for example, is closing their only two naval stations in the Gulf of Mexico.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. You seem to be a Naval Historian, so please explain this

We have nuke boat stations in each of the four geographic corners of this country. Groton, Charleston, in Washington State (or Oregon?) and California. There's a reason for that symmetry, isn't there?

Nuke boats, unique to any other ship in the Navy, need highly specialized bases. They don't just pull up to the municipal pier, load a few crates of oranges to prevent scurvy, and head back out to the bounding mane.

Nuke boats are a very real part of our very real need to maintain a defense that is ever vigilant (even when the boyking is out mountain biking). Until every last nuclear weapon in the world is destroyed, we need to maintain this defense.

Groton (the nuke boat base) and Electric Boat (the company that builds them) are inextricably intertwined. Lose Electric Boat and what do we have? The skills needed to build nuke boats are unique among marine construction. (Can you say 'zero tolerance welds' when building deep dive pressure hulls?) If these skills are lost, how do we get them back?

It is clear to me that politics is at play with these base closures and anyone who denies that is simply out of touch with reality. Politics is hardball and base closing debates are the big leagues.

But closing this base, among all the others, borders on criminal.

Why is this base selected for closing? Let's not be so cavalier as to say 'the problem is space'. Okay?

[Sparkly]

37. Wow.

Nice post! You must be smart! ("'zero tolerance welds' when building deep dive pressure hulls?")

Oh, wait... It's YOU.

[hack89]

53. The perceived threat has changed and there are fewer subs

Groton was well positioned to counter Soviet subs in the North Atlantic - that threat is rusting at the piers in Russia. There is no other threat in the Atlantic. China, on the other hand, is rapidly building a modern sub fleet. The Navy is in the process of increasing its submarine presence in the Pacific to counter this - they have moved three submarines to Guam and plan to move more. So a combination of a smaller US submarine fleet with a desire to increase our presence in the Pacific left the Navy with too few subs to spread around and still have Groton make economic sense. Norfolk is a bigger base with plenty of pier space available. It all ready a major submarine base so there are no infrastructure issues. It is also the headquaarters of Commander, Submarine Forces Atlantic. It is close to the nuclear shipyards in Newport News Va. Subs out of Norfolk can handle the Atlantic and the Med just fine.

Nuclear subs are also built in Newport News VA - they share construction of the new Virginia class SSN.

The Navy had to chose between Groton, Norfolk, and Kings Bay as their sub base on the East Coast. Kings Bay is the Trident base so it is not going anywhere while Norfolk is the largest naval base in the world with a concentration of supply, admin support, and training that allows for economic efficiency. Groton had no advantage over Norfolk.

[hatrack]

62. Why, we outsource the sub-building industry to China, of course!

All in all, a pretty :puke: inducing decision.

[Nite Owl]

4. Maine and Connecticut

they both have senators that may not vote with them on SS and who knows what else. Is this to punish or to use as a bribe to move them over? Snowe, Collins and Leiberman he needs them for any vote on his planned destruction and maybe he wants to hold this up as a prize, they'll keep the bases open if they vote their way. Just a thought.

[americanstranger]

7. See above post.

There's a reason that the announcement of the pending Nuke Option followed so closely on the heels of the base closings.

These guys don't do anything without a political motive. I talked to Randi Rhodes today about it, and she thought it was kinda out there.

I think they planned it to work this way. Call me cynical.

-as

[Nite Owl]

34. Not out there at all

they plan everything, even things that seem odd at the time have some goal. I'm glad you talked to Randi about it cause maybe she will connect the dots now.

[sarcasmo]

8. Vote Blue and get your base closed.

[hack89]

18. Texas loses 15, Alabama 11, Georgia 7, Oklahoma 6, Missouri 6

for some people, voting red had the same effect.

[KoKo]

23. Check and see if they aren't small facilities and not Bases, in the Red

States. The list I saw said Georgia only lost some small "training facilites," and other Military research installation facilities which will be combined.

I think the Northeast and California got hit with true Base closings. I didn't go beyond Georgia and SC which really didn't lose bases but had some "rearrangements which will lose some jobs but will be offset by gains in others. :shrug:

[karlrschneider]

26. No real net loss here in OK (Chimp country). All major bases safe,

and a few reserve units will glob together...actual employment will rise considerably. I'm sure the figures can be found on any of our media sites www.kotv.com www.ktul.com www.kjrh.com
and so on...was top story on all local news at 6.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. Please, don't make an equivalency between a fucking Reserve station

and a nuke boat base. They're not the same. To count numbers is not only disingenuous, it is tantamount to a lie.

[Thor_MN]

48. If I didn't muck up in transcibing, Red States +11861 Blue -24289

There is a very real net change of Militray and Civilian jobs from Blue states to Red states going on on this list.

Don't get me wrong, our military is much bigger than it needs to be to defend the country and any closing is probably for the better. But it does bother me to see states rewarded for voting for the chimp.

[Stinky The Clown]

54. Yup, there ya go

Those are the raw numbers. The 'logic' it took these assholes to get there is what also needs to be looked at.

[Thor_MN]

65. I give up in formating this, but the numbers speak for themselves

-2018 California
-8586 Connecticut
91 Delaware
-6496 Distict of Columbia
-298 Hawaii
-2698 Illinois
-6938 Maine
9293 Maryland
491 Massachusetts
125 Michigan
-262 Minnesota
4 New Hampshire
-3760 New Jersey
-1071 New York
-1083 Oregon
-1878 Pennsylvania
531 Rhode Island
56 Vermont
760 Washington
-552 Wisconsin
-24289

2664 Alabama
-4619 Alaska
-550 Arizona
3585 Arkansas
4917 Colorado
2757 Florida
7423 Georgia
-659 Idaho
2197 Indiana
-6 Iowa
3582 Kansas
-3658 Kentucky
-1297 Louisiana
-1678 Mississippi
-3679 Missouri
-124 Montana
-213 Nebraska
1059 Nevada
-2849 New Mexico
-422 North Carolina
-2645 North Dakota
241 Ohio
3919 Oklahoma
709 South Carolina
-3797 South Dakota
1088 Tennessee
6150 Texas
-446 Utah
-1574 Virginia
-251 West Virginia
37 Wyoming
11861

[Horse with no Name]

63. You are kidding--right?

Texas gained 6150
Alabama gained 2664
Georgia gained 7423
Oklahoma gained 3919

Missouri is the only one that lost--3679

That is a total gain of 16,477 redistributed to those states.

So tell me again what your point was between the red and blue states?

[Lizzie Borden]

20. Yup! That's what's goin' on.

[primavera]

66. Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

I admittedly don't know this, but I'm guessing Texas got off either very light or entirely scott free in terms of base closings.

on edit: Oops, just read post 18, pardon my two cents.

[dbeach]

9. New England is now defenseless..

real enemies gotta love 33 b.c.s on FRIDAY the 13 TH

BUt its all part of the busheviks plan to destroy the USA cuz they HATE freedoms..

Russia and China be luvin this day..

busheviks do nothing that will not benefit their private plans and their role in the globalist agenda

as goes the USA
so goes the rest of the so callled FRREE WORLD

[AlGore-08.com]

10. Don't rule out good old fashioned pork in the equation

Ed Schultz was on a major rant about Ellsworth in S.D., how the jobs lost there were getting outsourced to Texas. I wonder if they'll end up in Bug Boy's district?

Has anybody done an analysis of which states have the bases which "won" in this round?

[americanstranger]

11. Here's an Acrobat file that lists everything.

What's closing, what states 'gain,' what's being consolidated.

http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/Appendix_C_FinalUpdated.pdf

I looked at it briefly, but didn't really dig too deep.

-as

[Zorra]

12. Democrats should try really hard to snag Snowe's Senate seat now.

Republicans are not going to be popular in Maine after this.

[Maine-ah]

55. whats funny is that most republicans in Maine don't like Snow

and Collins, because they don't tote the party line.

The republicans I have seen on local message boards are just fine with these closings, but that is obviously not representative of the state, that's just a couple of locals.

As I understand it, Bush reviews the closing list in Sept. Then he has 45 days for changes/recommendations. So we're not looking at anything permanent until possibly Nov. or even the beginning of next year. We have time to pressure our reps. and we need to start now. Not only can't Maine afford to lose these jobs, but the security of our country can't afford to lose so many bases on the coast.

AND.. It is so WRONG to use something like this as leverage against the blue states. I think it's pretty obvious what Bush Co. is trying to do with this, and the fact that more blue states are losing more bases/jobs than the red states, should be sending some kind of warning flag up to the people of this country.


(edited for stupid spelling mistakes)

[moondust]

13. Simple equation: Thousands of blue state jobs to red states.

Keith Olbermann showed the red/blue map from Election 2004 with base closing job numbers superimposed on it. Couldn't be more obvious.

[drduffy]

24. got that right

one more step in the 'dom' process. Get ready to be fighting in the streets. That's what this means.

[minkyboodle]

38. anyone have screen cap from that

I'd love to see it as it would convince this friend I have to finally come over to our side.

[AuntiBush]

40. Coundown is ready to air in repeat Midnight EST

And an MSNBC link: "Base closure list becomes battleground
Pentagon proposes closing 33 large bases, some 150 smaller sites."

“The battle starts today,” said Gerry Tarantolo, mayor of Eatontown, N.J., which is home to Fort Monmouth, a base that would lose all its 5,272 military and civilian jobs, according to the Pentagon proposal released Friday.

An angry Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., vowed to “fight like hell to change it. I’m not about to let the Pentagon’s error put the fort and the soldiers it serves in harm’s way.”

And Rep. Rob Simmons, R-Conn., voiced his opposition to a proposal to close the Naval Submarine Base in Groton, Conn., which would mean losing some 8,000 jobs. "I'm surprised and I'm shocked," Simmons, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, told MSNBC. "We are going to fight this decision," he added, noting that the committee's chairman also opposes the closure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7834939/

[AuntiBush]

41. And some Republicans are Ticked, too.

Republican senator vows to fight
Among the major proposed closures is Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota, home to 29 B-1B bombers, half the nation’s fleet of the aircraft, and the state’s second largest employer.

That would deal a potential political setback to Republican freshman Sen. John Thune, who had claimed he could protect the base if elected during his campaign to defeat former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle.

From same link, above.

[AuntiBush]

42. Here's that Strange thing about this though

Notice the drastic changes, below, according to MSNBC, then notice "WHO BENEFITS." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7834939/

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld also recommended closing the Naval Station in Pascagoula, Miss... a blow to Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss...

Naval Submarine Base in Groton, Conn... 8,000 jobs gone.
Fort McPherson in Georgia, nearly 4,200 jobs gone;
Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Maine, which now has 4,200 jobs - adios.
Cannon Air Force Base/New Mexico, could lose more than 2,700 jobs - cya.
The Naval Station in Ingleside, Texas, costing more than 2,100 jobs.

WHO BENEFITS:

TEXAS: Fort Bliss - Army
Naval Shipyard - Norfolk, Va.
Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland

2 surround the Hill; 1 the Ranch. Just a strange thought there.
:crazy:

[Sparkly]

43. That's an interesting observation, Auntie

Seems to me that centralizing things also consolidates potential targets, too. :shrug:

[AuntiBush]

44. Exactly. Or something else.

April: Maryland seen it's share of possible Marshall Law rehersals. Though the news reported is as terrorist practice runs, it was rumored all over the place "ML."

BWI Airport
Frederick, MD (very near Camp David).

Just some differnet angles/thoughts.

[AuntiBush]

45. Can't spell. Heading for snooze land.

Sleep has been so disrupted from this adm# I've literally lost tons of sleep, honestly.

Now... all one can hope for is not to get too tired to pay attention.

[cliss]

47. Personal guess:

they want to turn ALL their focus on Iraq and possibly Iran next. Let it never be said that these guy's aren't determined.

They're going to cut expenses any way they can...so they can win what they see as a losing battle in Iraq. They remind me of Captain Ahab, who was hell-bent on capturing the White Whale. He was so maniacally determined on getting it that he wouldn't listen to anyone. And it sent him to his death.

That's the mentality we're dealing with.

[gademocrat7]

59. any setback for Thune is good.

Hopefully he will not be reelected.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. The NeoCons are punishing liberal New England.

[Sparkly]

22. I can't get over the plan to shut down Groton.

I grew up in New London. That sub base and General Dynamics Electric Boat are the lifeblood of the whole area. It's an important base.

I'm just scratching my head. :(

[americanstranger]

25. Joementum's Sword of Damocles.

Do you realize how much pressure they can put on Lieberman with that potential closing?

And if he caves and supports whatever hare-brained bullshit Bush wants him to support, think of what a hero he'll be when he calls a press conference to announce that he's 'saved' Groton.

Think of the boost it'll give his campaign - especially if he announces it on the eve of the primary election.

-as

[Stinky The Clown]

35. If Lieberman caves, he's a textbook, clinically defined asshole

In the end, Groton won't close. Portsmouth may, but not Groton. Reason and brains will prevail. I say he calls bullshit on Rove and tell him to just fucking try. Every admiral from here to Subic Bay will be calling for Rove's fat, mushy ass on a silver platter served up by a steward in the wardroom.

Worchestershire sauce will be optional.

[Sparkly]

39. Speaking of admirals

I would love to hear from Admiral Crowe on this, along with General McPeak and General Clark!!

[warrens]

29. Well, the GOP can give up on NH and Maine for a generation

I grew up in both states. There will not be another Republican elected for a long time. The Rethugs must be panicking.

[Sparkly]

31. They're giving them up to lock in Florida, imho. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

46. Do we need all those nuclear subs, and if so why?

Why do we need them for? Protect us against Godzilla? The harsh reality is that the military-industrial complex profited for years by fanning the fears of the barbarians at the gates of freedom. The end of the Cold War, and the incredible access we got to the Soviet archives, have shown that the Cold War was a fraud perpetrated on a gullible public by the US government. Let's scrap the instruments of the Cold War, and let's do Rumsfeld one better by replacing the Pentagon with the Department of Peace.

[Snellius]

49. Are they trying to keep Snowe, Chafee, and Collins in line?

Maybe the administration is not concerned so much with closing New England's bases as holding up a heavy bargaining weapon for keeping any possibly wayward, moderate Northeast congressmen from straying out of goose step with the party line?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. That doesn't make any sense.

This will only turn people in those states against bush (more so than they are already) and will give their congressional representation all the space they need to tell him to go fuck himself on a variety of issues.

[Demeter]

52. That's Okay

The more people are angry, the sooner they make changes. And when the pockets are empty, the red bases will go, too. Then maybe we'll have some peace on earth.

[Snellius]

56. But maybe they don't really intend on closing those bases

Now let's say that Olympia Snowe really does go along with the Bolton nomination she seems inclined against, or to help pull the switch on the "nuclear option", and, lo and behold, our benevolent despot, out of his ever-generous kindness and appreciation, rules to relent his draconian sentence and lets the condemned Maine shipyards live to build another day. The Russian Czars used to use the trick of reprieving a convicted political dissident just minutes before the execution squad ordering "Fire". A grand gesture of the mercy of the ruler. And an obligation to the poor condemned subject who was now forever in his debt.

Rove reads his history. But, then again, look what happened to the Russian Czar.

[MaineDem]

57. Bingo!!!

I'm beginning to think this way, too.

[primavera]

67. Have you met her, MaineDem?

It just occurred to me that you might have. If so, is she a prize bitch or a surprisingly nice person despite her politics? Just wondering...

[Sparkly]

58. But that would be "playing politics with national security!"

Oh wait... :crazy:

[Toots]

61. So Conneticut is to lose it's National Guard base

National Guard is for state use, how can the Feds take it away? I guess this Administration is really out to destroy the National Guard especially in Blue states so when/if the time ever comes when a state has to defend itself from a Federal government goen mad it will have no resources. I would think every single state would be up in arms over this.

[w4rma]

64. Bush's big wet kiss to Lieberman. (nt)