Breaking News: Groton base on closure list

[Larkspur]

http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=3339856

GROTON (AP) -- The Associated Press has learned the U.S. Naval Submarine Base in Groton is on the Pentagon's list of proposed base closures.

Is this a sign of the Bush vendetta against anyone who opposes him?

Republican Rob Simmons is the Rep in my district, which houses this base. Wonder if he'll survive the 2006 elections. Maybe, Bush Co. figured Simmons was expendable.

[Atman]

1. Simmons crossed BushCo

Payback time.

[JerseygirlCT]

2. Yup, I think that ought to just about do it for Simmons.

Silver lining?

[tanyev]

3. I've been wondering how many of the closures will be in blue

states. Cheney tried to pull the same kind of thing when he was Secretary of Defense. I think a lot of his choices got overrruled, though.

[Sparkly]

4. Omigod!!

I grew up in that area. The naval base and General Dynamics are the lifeblood of that whole area. I can't believe they're thinking of closing that one.

[UpInArms]

5. related: Rumsfeld wants 150 U.S.military installations closed-AP

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/pulseone.asp?dateid=38485.3966882755-835354327&siteID=mktw&scid=0&doctype=806&

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is recommending closing more than 150 large and small military installations across the United States, The Associated Press reported Friday.

:wtf:

[notadmblnd]

9. There's an armory in Pontiac Michigan they can close

but they just added on to the complex.

[converted_democrat]

12. You don't need bases full of people...........

When you can get by with more BIG BOMBS. Bombs don't need a paycheck or health insurance.

[Sparkly]

22. Yup -- and they don't really need submarines in the middle east, so....

why bother? Our entire military is centered around the PNAC plans right now.

And as General Clark said, "Republicans love weapons. Democrats love people." So you're right. (Besides, people aren't exactly lining up to enlist.)

[MADem]

41. Actually, diesel electric subs can be very, very useful

...in littoral warfare. They can go totally quiet, unlike nukes. And Iran has a fine littoral, in fact, the Shah had one helluva diesel electric mini fleet there, for awhile.

USN has in the past talked about getting back in the DE game, I haven't kept up with the current thinking, though.

Even from a nuke perspective, it ain't hard to launch from anywhere in the Gulf...and hit your target with stunning precision. And be hard as hell to hit back....unlike a surface vessel.

[Shipwack]

63. You can thank Admiral Rickover...

::spit:: for screwing up America's security by forcibly phasing out diesels years ago. Now their loss is really going to be felt.

During the Falkland (or Malvinas)war, the Argentinians had one of their diesel subs trailing the British fleet. It wasn't located until after the conflict was over.It was only due to an on-board malfunction that the British didn't incur any losses from the sub.

[MADem]

66. Rickover was an asswipe

I met him years ago--his ego was so big it couldn't fit through a hatch. Plus, he was astoundingly abusive to those surrounding him, and of course, they took it, because there was no place else for them to go within that community.

I have to admit I was secretly delighted when he got bagged for accepting foreign gifts and not paying the freight through State, as he should have. He left with a tarnish on his brass, and it was a fitting end to a guy who had stayed far too long at the Fair.

[Shipwack]

62. Submarines -are- useful, actually...

The first shots of the latest Iraqi conflict were Tomahawks from an SSN... The latest SSGNs have even more fire power. Not to mention their use as seal team insertion, and many others. The boats aren't going away (yet), just being relocated to southern bases.

[MaineDem]

6. WOW

I figured that would stay for sure.

Still waiting to hear about our two Maine Navy bases. This will be major.

[wakeme2008]

7. This is what gets me

"It is homeport to 18 attack submarines and also home of the Naval Submarine School, three submarine squadrons staffs and other support facilities."

where are they going to move the Naval Submarine School???????

My bet would be Florida (jacksonville) or Texas......

[Larkspur]

21. Actually, there is another sub base in Norfolk, VA

Virginia's base is newer than Connecticut's and I think it is bigger too.

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens over this. Closing of the sub base will definitely hurt Southeastern and Eastern CT.

[Throckmorton]

28. I suspect it will not hurt as much as you think,

our economy has transitioned from military to tourism and bio-tech over the last 15 years. The sub building cutbacks from the early 1990's were far worse.

It does make other projects in the area more important than ever. The Utopia studios in Preston and possible racetrack in Plainfield are both keys. Provided the local pols don't screw it up.

[cassandra uprising]

44. I posted this in the CT state forum. What about Electric Boat?

I won't be sad to see it go, but it's loss to South Eastern CT will seriously fuck with the state's economy.

[MADem]

45. USN is too congested around Norfolk, already

Which is why I vote for King's Bay. One hit on Norfolk and there goes half the goddamn fleet.

Alternatively, they could site the school away from everything, and tack it on to the Academy, the War College or the Postgrad School. Plenty of room at all those locations, and really, all you need is a good simulator for most of the training (and they have them), and a two week field trip before your first assignment, if you even need that.

Plus, it gives the sub community a chance to grow their own influence. They've taken a number of hits in the past few years, and if they can consolidate, they will spend less time infighting and more time advancing their own agenda (that's what it is all about, at the end of the day).

[MADem]

33. My guess is King's Bay, GA

Huge base, very nice facilities, a SHITLOAD of land, cheaper costs per employee, convenient to air transportation, out in the fucking boonies...plus, that is way too much base with not enough mission right now. Those bubbleheads like to stick together, even if there exists some rivalry between the SSN and SSBN types.

[Shipwack]

65. I second Kings Bay...

The school facilities there have just been upgraded, and are underutilized now anyway. Extra berths for the SSN will have to be built, though.

Kings Bay is actually one of the nicest bases I've ever been at, though those flying teeth they call gnats can be irksome. It's not too far in the boonies, though if you like hunting or fishing its in a good area. Jacksonville, Fl, and New Brunswick Georgia are both 45 minutes away for shopping.

No donut shops, though, or topless bars (oh no, does this mean that Rosy's Cantina is going away?)... A couple of tattoo parlors, pawnshops and -way- too many pay day loan scammers ::spit:: Though not as many since one was found murdered in his store a few years back. Roads are generally good, but they're definitely going to have to do something about gate traffic in the morning. All in all, a real nice area.

[MaineDem]

8. BREAKING: Portsmouth, Brunswick, on list of proposed base closings

KITTERY — The Defense Department said announced Friday its intentions to close the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and change the mission of the Brunswick Naval Air Station as part of a massive reorganization of the nation’s military. The announcement ends months of anxious anticipation and speculation over which bases the nation’s military leaders had deemed obsolete. Associated Press

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. Well...

That just screwed Snowe and Collins.

[MADem]

20. Time for Snowe and Collins to punish the Chimp

A vote against Bolton would be a nice start....

[Rockholm]

25. This is devastating for both ME and NH.

Portsmouth employs thousands.

[MADem]

It sure is

Guess the GOP couldn't deliver much for those states, they should have done the right thing and elected Democrats to rep them!

[lse7581011]

48. And so does Brunswick!

The entire economy of both Maine and New Hampshire are being punished (and I believe vindictively) by this administration!

[MaineDem]

57. Almost 9000 jobs to be lost

because of these closures in Maine.

Many are in NH as you mentioned but the Maine economy will take a major hit from this. I believe Governors Baldacci and Lynch will be getting together this weekend to discuss this.

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/050513baseclosingslive.shtml


Edited to add new link for "Maine hit hard by base closings" article.

[lse7581011]

64. Thanks for the link

Good article!

[Bonhomme Richard]

10. I'm stunned....Never thought it would happen.

I can't even fathom the repercusions of this to Connecticut. It will be devastating to southeastern CT and will even affect me.

[salib]

11. Hey, it is ALL good.

Fewer knee-jerk support groups for the military. Aren't these the same places that just sutomatically salute anytime the Prez says "boo!"?

[MaineDem]

16. That's crap

Regardless of the military's "knee-jerk support" there are civilian employees and surrounding areas dependent on these bases.

[salib]

36. I have been one of those civilian employees on and off

for years. Comes from spending 90% of my life in a city with 6 major military bases (now four and a half). I would love to have opportunities that are not based around the military bases in this city. Weening is difficult, and I had to get a new job due to a closing.

However, if there is a base or a large military contractor that the town depends upon so closely for it support, it is just like living next to a vulcano. It becomes very seductive to wish for military spending, which leads to sabre rattling, which gives the chimpster something to through at hapless middle eastern countries.

Sucks. It is crap. I have lived it my entire life. My family, my friends, my wife, my community are all tied up in the military. Does not make it a good thing. Actually makes it a bad one, for many reasons.

[MADem]

39. The businesses that surround the bases

..is where the unseen pain lies. The little mom and pop coffee shop that employs ten or fifteen folks, the bar where everyone goes after work, the little restaurant that is a great lunch spot or place to grab a bite if you work late, the car rental place outside the gate, the drycleaner, the convenience store...so much for chimpy's support of "small business!"

You take the number of employees that are being fired from those bases, and you can probably add half again that number of people who will be tangentially effected by this round. I agree with your assessment of the situation. This is going to have a massive negative impact, and the northeast is taking it up the ass...New Jersey, Connecticut, NH/ME, even MA, with Otis.

Punished for being Blue in 04, are we?

[cassandra uprising]

46. true

What kind of effect will this have on the working class?

[Jo March]

14. Well, I hope this round of closings will shut my bushbot sister up

She says that "Democrats are bad for the military." She's in the Air Force and has voted for * twice. She blames Clinton for the base closings in the early 90s.

Yes, she is an idiot.

[NewJeffCT]

15. Wow

Not a surprise given the vindictiveness of Bush & Cheney, but it will be a devastating blow to Southeastern CT. Now what's left? The casinos & Pfizer?

[kskiska]

17. Looks like BushCo has it in for my old home state

They stiffed Sikorsky, too, on the helicopter contract.

[yellowcanine]

18. Thune got stiffed by Bush in South Dakota. I feel sorry for South Dakota

but I gotta admit this gives me a little bit of satisfaction.

Among the major closures is Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota, home to 29 B-1B bombers, half the nation's fleet of the aircraft, and the state's second largest employer.

During the 2004 campaign, Republican John Thune told voters that if elected to replace then Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, his GOP ties would ensure that the base remained open. Daschle said that as minority leader, he would have an appointment to the Base Realignment and Closure Commission and be in a better position to help Ellsworth.

[northzax]

30. There was an ad in the Rapid City Whateverit'scalled

the day before the election from the 'business communityyyyy' in Rapid City saying that Ellsworth was closing, trying to immunize Thune. If daschle were senator today, Ellsworth would be staying open without a further fight.

[Bonhomme Richard]

19. Anyone working for the Government is going...................

to end up getting squat for their homes when they have to sell them. And these are people who don't make a lot to begin with.

[Al-CIAda]

23. No need for bases here when we are building 14 PERMANENT bases

abroad in Iraq. Maybe 14 more are planned for Iran, Syria, Venezuala, etc...

[Sparkly]

24. I hear Lieberman is going to have a press conference in about 10 minutes.

That'll help. :eyes:

[MADem]

49. Wonder how he will whine?????

I picture him kissing the chimp every time I see his whiney face. Lie down with Dogs, JoMentum, and get up with fleas...the fool.

[rainbow4321]

26. TX bases announced

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/051405dntextexasbases.26db958d0.html

The Pentagon on Friday recommended closing Naval Station Ingleside, Brooks City Base, Lone Star Army Ammunition Plant, Red River Army Depot and several smaller military installations in Texas.

However, Texas will also gain more than 9,000 military jobs around the state. Six other military bases will be realigned, including Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Naval Air Station Corpus Christi and Sheppard Air Force Base.

Nearly a quarter million uniformed personnel and civilians are connected with the state's 18 major military installations, pumping about $43 billion a year to the state. Texas also is home to several guard and reserve sites.

Lobbyists, elected officials and communities have been playing cheerleader to the state's bases for a couple of years with their boosterism intensifying in recent weeks

[MADem]

27. OTIS, on Cape Cod, is on the list as well

That is the place from whence the aircraft were scrambled on 9.11. This is going to hurt a LOT of retirees on the Cape who use that facility for the commissary... http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=83018

Hanscomb, no surprise, was spared. The MIT geeks building futuristic war weapons don't want to travel too far from the Hub of the Universe.

[losdiablosgato]

29. This still has to be aprroved by congress

There will be many fights over closing this. I predict that th rethugs will make a big show of saving bases in there state.

[MaineDem]

35. Once Congress gets the list they can't change it

They can only accept or reject the entire package.

[losdiablosgato]

50. Then they reject it

then the horse trading starts.

[MADem]

52. Doubt that

They hold all the cards, if the chimp gives this the OK, it is a done deal. After all, the GOP consider ME's Snowe and Collins to be RINOs on social issues. They hate NJ for its Dems, find Mitt the Shit ineffective in MA, and of course despise Kerry and Kennedy, the TX delegation is happy because it all washes out for them with realignment, NJ is full of Dems, so screw them, JoeMentum in CT is a tired whore, so screw him too...up or down vote will end up as UP, unless chimpy's staff has a problem, because the GOP types that don't play ball will not get any cash to fund their reelection.

It's in effect, Mehlman, acting on orders, holding the gun to their heads. Vote yes, or else!

[MaineDem]

53. Actually the horse trading starts now

This is the Pentagon's list.

It now goes to the BRAC commission for its recommendations. There will be hearings and a chance for people to lobby for their base to be taken off the final list.

Then by Sept 8 (I think) the BRAC list goes to the Prez who either approves or sends it back for more work. Finally, the COngress gets it where they vote yes or no without being able to make changes.

[northzax]

31. Groton's old

it makes sense to close it and keep Virginia Roads open. Plus, electric boat isn't building as many as they used to, especially without Seawolf.

[calico1]

68. I'm sure logically it must make some sense.

However that's a small comfort to those of us who will be directly affected. Aside from the jobs at the Sub Base, it affects Electric Boat and the domino affect will be tremendous--restaurants, stores, you name it. It will be a disaster for this area.

[northzax]

74. without question.

but New London has better prospects than South Western South Dakota or Southern Maine. South Dakota is losing it's number two employer in the entire state, and Maine is losing it's largest (besides the state government) think about that, Connecticut is wealthy compared to Maine or South Dakota, which do you think has a better chance of weathering the storm?

and I do feel for you, it's painful, but it's going to happen, might as well get it over with while the government still has some money to help with the transition, right?

[groton]

71. Grotons NOT OLD

Dude
You dont know anything do you

Groton May be Old
but its still Vital to get to the North Atlantic and also Right Next to EB.
Which is not building much latly do to the fact it has to Share a Boat a year with Newport News in VA.

this is vary bad for Me personaly since i work at EB>
and EB has Many Many Loyal Democrats and Many Loyal Republicans who may now change there ways hopefully

[northzax]

73. Groton is old

maybe not in time, but in concept. It, and Electric Boat, were built for the last war, one we never fought, thank goodness. By your own post we can see that Newport News is taking the boat building away. So why keep it?

Look, I feel sorry for anyone who loses a job because of a closing, even you, but why are we keeping bases open that we don't need, simply to create jobs for Democrats? not good enough reason, I'm afraid.

What exactly does the North Atlantic Submarine Fleet do these days? keep and eye on russian fishing trawlers in the GIUK Gap? Hang out around the Faeroes looking for wayward sheep? we don't need them, and we need to concentrate our resources where we do.

Sorry.

[MADem]

32. New Jersey got SCREWED--Monmouth closed, Earle and Lakehurst

...realigned. Over FIVE THOUSANDS JOBS lost!!!!!! Here we go again...!
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050513/NEWS/50513004

[DemocracyInaction]

34. Did you ever hear the word "PLOY"???

These are proposed. You can bet that various Republican Senators and Reps are in the end going to put on the "Superman capes" and "save the day" for their areas and thus be assured of re-election in a landslide (no Dem needs to run in those areas). On the other hand, "blue is screwed" and the stupid people probably will punish these guys instead of fighting back at the GOP and ridding themselves of all the scum. Stay tuned...........this ain't over.

[cassandra uprising]

51. interesting point

CT has already spent 1.2 million (this figure is from the New York Times) on lobbying to keep the base open.

Interesting day CT: first state murder, now this.

[Czolgosz]

37. Keep your hope up. In Austin, Texas everyone was terrified that the loss

of the air force base would kill the economy. The base was closed during the last round of BRAC, but it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Austin.

[cassandra uprising]

54. I hope you're right.

But with CT's history with the base, the first in the country (1872), it will be hard for locals to change how they do business.

I hear Austin has a thriving artist community. Is there any connection between the economic effect of the base closing and the city's need to find new ways to make money?

[Shadder]

38. Georgia closings - net gain of 7423 jobs

Four Georgia military bases and three additional facilities will be recommended for closure by the Pentagon, 11Alive has learned.

The facilities facing closure are as follows:

The Navy Supply Corps School (Athens)

Fort Gillem (Forest Park)

Fort McPherson (Atlanta)

Naval Air Station (Atlanta)

Inspector-Instructor Center (Rome)

US Army Reserve Center (Columbus)

Peachtree Leases (Atlanta)

Seven additional facilities will see net gains as a result of the recommended closures. The state actually stands to gain 7,423 defense jobs through gains at other bases, according to the Associated Press.


Dobbins Air Force Base (Marietta)

Fort Benning (Columbus)

Moody Air Force Base (Valdosta)

Robins Air Force Base (Macon)

Marine Corp Logistsics Center (Albany)

Savannah International Airport Guard Station

Naval Submarine Base (Kings Bay)

http://wxia.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63044

[Catchawave]

40. Defense Department BRAC website ....

http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/

[MADem]

55. ASD for Installations on TV NOW

Making formal announcement...ole Mike looks like shit, btw...

[Charles19]

42. Any bases in Iraq on the list? (I am betting no)

[Jara sang]

43. Is that the end of General Electric Boat Corp. in Groton?

Bye-bye jobs.

[cassandra uprising]

47. yep. n/t

[MADem]

56. FUCK!!!!

They are moving Walter REED to Bethesda and Belvoir!!!!

Guess the neighborhood was too dark for them??? Incredible...those historic buildings...

[northzax]

58. historic ain't neccesarily good for a hospital

and recently the Military Medical Corps were merged into one, from Army and Navy, to a unified corps. there really is no need for Walter Reed and Bethesda at the same time, any more.

Sad, but good for the District (the real estate WR is on is worth tens of millions) and the right thing to do moving forward.

[MADem]

59. Easier to hide the seriously wounded at Belvoir

It is a bitch getting on that base now, it used to be fairly open.

Army is now taking the lead in milmed. USN and USAF used to own it, and frankly, and no offense to Army types, the care is better at USN and USAF facilities; the doctors more experienced, and there are more civilian heads of departments, which is a good thing.

Now we are going to conveyor belt medicine, economies of scale.

On edit--I'm wondering how all of those DC area retirees, many of them WW2 and Korea vets and their dependents, who rely on public transportation to get to WR, are gonna get their asses out to Belvoir?

I think part of this has to do with making the retirees go to the civilian sector, and pay more out of pocket, for their "benefit."

[northzax]

60. true, it's painful for some people

but the fact is that we spend way too much money on the Military in the first place, clsoing duplicate bases is one way to deal with that.

we have excess capacity, and it's time to trim the fat. Bad news for some people, but good for the whole.

[MADem]

61. When they break their contract with WW2 and Korea Vets

...it isn't just an issue of excess capacity. It's breaking a promise made by the government. And that is what they are doing. If they even left a clinic open over at the Extract lab down the street for those people, most of whom are black and live around Georgia Ave (many moved there to be CLOSE to Walter Reed, and no longer drive) then I would be less critical.

Funny thing, if Strom Thurmond were still alive, WR would not be on that list--he used to LIVE there (no shit, he LIVED there, in one of the fancy medical suites--they would drag him to the floor of the Senate, he would sit there in his Depends, and they would drag him back at the end of the vote). A lot of Congresscritters are gonna be pissed, many use Bethesda, but some prefer WR. Of course, nowadays, you see all those amputated kids in the lobby, mixed in with the gray haired old black folk, outnumbering them, now, so it ain't as pleasant as it was in the time following Gulf War 1. There were way fewer of us populating the lobby in those days.

[bunny planet]

67. Guess Lieberman's kissing the President didn't make all that much diff.

[MADem]

69. Can you say "Fredo, my brother?"

[leQ]

70. the school is there too, so i wonder where they're training nukers now (nt

.

[groton]

72. School To ether SC,or Kings Bay

Thing is the base Cant really be done to anything.

i don't think There can be anything made out of the base i mean the state and towns of Preston and Norwich took for ever to find a buyer for the old Norwich State Hospital Site.