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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 09:11 AM
Original message
IRAQ: People flee al-Qaim as fighting continues
IRAQ: People flee al-Qaim as fighting continues
12 May 2005 12:26:40 GMT
Source: IRIN

BAGHDAD/ AL-QAIM, 12 May (IRIN) - Families are fleeing the Iraqi town of al-Qaim following the start of an offensive on 2 May by US troops against insurgents linked with wanted terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is believed to be taking refuge in the city.

Al-Qaim is situated in the western Anbar province bordering Syria 320 km west of the capital, Baghdad.

More than 100 families from the town have moved to A'ana, some 75 km from al-Qaim. An unknown number of families have fled to Rawa and Haditha, some 70 km to the northeast, according to Firdous al-Abadi, a spokeswoman for the Iraqi Red Crescent Society (IRCS). She added that those people are in need of supplies.

"More people are desperately trying to leave the town and according to our information US troops have closed all exit points. Our contacts inside al-Qaim, told us by phone, that there is no power, no telephones and a 24-hour curfew has been imposed," al-Abadi told IRIN in Baghdad on Thursday.

(more)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/4de4ea413692eb9b4e7225878c779adf.htm

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yesterday on Democracy Now, Seymour Hersh said...
Edited on Thu May-12-05 09:47 AM by htuttle
...that the US plan is to systematically destroy the large Sunni cities in Iraq one after another. Falluja was the start of it, and the US Gen Abizaid says they can 'pacify' 6-8 medium sized cities per year.

Apparently their goal, according to Hersh, is to make the population more afraid of the US military than the insurgents. I tend to agree with Hersh that it's a fatally flawed plan, and will only make things worse.

edit: speling
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've been reading Iris Chang's book, The Rape of Nanking
I can't help but think of Fallujah when she describes the various occupation techniques used by the imperial army. Like the sudden, massive increase in opium and heroin on the streets.

The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140277447/qid=1115909214/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/002-5612968-7311254?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Fatally flawed
is an understatement. They're nuts.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Nuts is an understatement
Try suicidal.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Here's the transcript
The idea is to go to major cities. They did Fallujah, they're doing Ramadi right now, take it down, make the people of the Sunni heartland more afraid of the American/Iraqi Mukhabarat than they are of the resistance. That's the idea. And Abizaid, so I have been told, has made it clear that he thinks he can, within a year, he can take down four or five of the major strongholds. And I think the plan is to go from Ramadi to another major city of 300,000 or 400,000 and begin the same kind of operation. No more embedded journalists, only on a rare occasion. We're not there like we were in Fallujah. We don't really know what's going on in Ramadi. It seems like it’s holy hell there, but we don't know. And I think that’s the game plan. It’s sort of a desperate game plan. It's not going to work, obviously. Occupiers, terror and these techniques don't work...

Wednesday, May 11th, 2005
Seymour Hersh: Iraq "Moving Towards Open Civil War"
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/11/142250

AMY GOODMAN: And what about this issue of the Salvadorization, the idea that John Negroponte has been the US Ambassador -- of course, he’s head of National Intelligence now -- formerly in the early ‘80s, Ambassador to Honduras, the staging ground for the Contra War? Do you see a connection between the people that are being brought in now who worked Salvador, two decades ago working with paramilitaries?

SEYMOUR HERSH: I don't want to beat my breast, but I think I used the notion that it's an El Salvadorian war in an article in The New Yorker about six months ago, saying it's gone El Salvador. And Negroponte is a true believer. He really supports this administration and Bush. He's totally on the team. Somebody said to me when he was named head of the overall intelligence apparatus by Bush, you know, we all joked that everybody who goes to the White House has to drink the Kool-Aid in order to get there. In other words, you only want to hear from people who believe what you’re -- there's no opposition, no dissent allowed. I mean, there's just no dissent allowed inside. Any dissent is not just honest dissent, it's being a traitor. And somebody said to me, well, he's going to mix the Kool-Aid. That's his job now as head of intelligence. He’s very nice, a very pleasant man, he’s very articulate. And I think what he has done in terms of setting up a covert, off-the-books apparatus and a hunter-killer team, that's what we have now. We’re taking down -- the idea is, I think it’s ungodly in a way, really, what he has done. The idea is right now in Iraq, the goal they have now is they want to go into the various major cities in the Sunni heartland, the four provinces of Iraq that are considered to be pro-Saddam or pro-Ba'athist, and which what 40% of the population reside, around Baghdad. The idea is to go to major cities. They did Fallujah, they're doing Ramadi right now, take it down, make the people of the Sunni heartland more afraid of the American/Iraqi Mukhabarat than they are of the resistance. That's the idea. And Abizaid, so I have been told, has made it clear that he thinks he can, within a year, he can take down four or five of the major strongholds. And I think the plan is to go from Ramadi to another major city of 300,000 or 400,000 and begin the same kind of operation. No more embedded journalists, only on a rare occasion. We're not there like we were in Fallujah. We don't really know what's going on in Ramadi. It seems like it’s holy hell there, but we don't know. And I think that’s the game plan. It’s sort of a desperate game plan. It's not going to work, obviously. Occupiers, terror and these techniques don't work. You know, the Israelis, you could argue, did well --

(more)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/11/142250

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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I remember a general saying "the people of Falluja are going to have
to understand that they can't hide terrorists in their city" before the assault there.

To me that sound very much like a rationale for collective punishment which is illegal under the Geneva convention and is a war crime.

The same it appears is happening here.

Hitler was fond of collective punishment of Towns and villages where partizans and resistance fighters were hiding, in WW2.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Fear of America makes people love America? Huh?
, take it down, make the people of the Sunni heartland more afraid of the American/Iraqi Mukhabarat than they are of the resistance


Doesn't this policy result in driving normal citizens into the ranks of insurgents? After all, if they fear America more than anything, then they will naturally fall in line with the insurgents, who are trying to protect them from Americans.

I fear Bush immensely, which is precisely why I would never join ranks with him. Fear motivates hate, not love.

I'm telling you, the Bushies WANT chaos and genocide. It gives them the pretext to stand there, stealing taxpayer money, and establish their bases to contain th "arc of instability" (which really means just getting themselves in position to make China the next enemy superpower).

They aren;t stupid. It just look that way because their stated goals are not the REAL goals. If one keeps the REAL goals in mind, then the whole thing is going according to plan.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. In Orwells 1984 the totalitarian government didn't want to
win the war it was fighting. The idea was a continuous war to keep the domestic population subservient. Any dissent is seens as suporting the other side. "Traitor" is shouted. "Unpatriotic".

Its frightening and its exactly the same with the Bush administration. They got their Pearl harbour, and now America is at continuous war.

"Gotta stay the course"

"Gotta get the job done"

"We're in this for the long haul"

Too fucking right the long haul, its never going to end.

I think America is particularly susceptible to this, due to the tradition of getting behind the president wholeheartedly in times of war. Not to is deemed unpatriotic.

Its as if they've used Orwell's "1984" as a manual to bring a country into subservience.

Gotta act fast before all freedoms are taken away and its too late to stop it. This will not end with Bush. "They've" got power and they're not letting go
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. Isn't this a war crime?
"More people are desperately trying to leave the town and according to our information US troops have closed all exit points. Our contacts inside al-Qaim, told us by phone, that there is no power, no telephones and a 24-hour curfew has been imposed," al-Abadi told IRIN in Baghdad on Thursday.

Falluja all over again.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes -- at least one or two war crimes
Hey, what's another war crime when you've committed so many already?

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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Make that at least two. This is the second
The main hospital in al-Qaim was reportedly attacked during the fighting, according to local doctors. US forces say they believed insurgents were hiding inside. Eight people were reported to have been killed inside the building by the hospital's deputy director.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. In this local story - 3 Marines had Abrahms Tank Blown Up
http://www.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?ParentPageID=x5157&ContentID=x65267&Layout=KBCI.xsl&AdGroupID=x5154

<snip>

The call came from the United States Marines Corps, and informed the Brumptons that their 31-year-old son, Staff Sgt. Chad Brumpton, had been seriously wounded near the Syria-Iraq border.

<snip>

Two other local Marines, Lance Cpls. Joseph Lowe and Mitch Ehlke, were also seriously injured when their M1-A1 Abrams tank, commanded by Staff Sgt. Brumpton, hit a huge land mine Sunday, according to Marine Corps spokesmen.

<snip>

"At this point, the fight continues. There are reports that these people are in uniforms, in some cases are wearing protected vests, and there's some suspicion that their training exceeds that of what we have seen with other engagements further east," said Lt. General James T. Conway, the Director of Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Despite the presence of uniforms, Conway says the fighters are not a unified force. Some 100 militants have been killed in the fight so far, military officials said.

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. Basra & Fallujah & Najaf. & Fallujah & Mosul & Ramadii & al-Qiam...
"We had to burn the entire country down in order to save...something..."
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. After our little Freedom Injection in their country
I don't think they'll want anything more to do with the stuff in the future
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, Ramadi is being freedomized in the manner of Fallujah n/t
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. We'll teach those Iraqis to love freedom or we'll kill them!
Freedom is on the march! :mad: :puke: :eyes:
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great, now they got him cornered in the city.
Like his idol, Houdini, al-Zarqawi is capable of dematerializing. Sadly, the mighty US military will again be one step behind and will be reported as such in the newz.

--insurgents linked with wanted terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is believed to be taking refuge in the city.--

These news people must have "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" programmed as an 'F- hot-key' on their damm keyboards.

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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. If he is killed a new
No. 1 terrorist will soon pop up for everyone to boo at and cheer bush on to capture him.

"He's behiiiiind you"
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. Difference between this and Vietnam, Nobody knew what we
Edited on Thu May-12-05 07:38 PM by The_Casual_Observer
were fighting in Vietnam for. In Iraq there isn't any doubt what "we" are fighting for. That's why the American people are giving the Iraqis the Nazi treatment and they don't give a shit.

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Another difference: the internet
We can watch the horror much more closely. We may not be able to influence the delusional policies, but we can at least bear witness.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick
Read Seymour Hersh's statements, above, if you haven't already
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