Rise in Gangs Creates Bitter Debate

[Rose Siding]

NEW YORK May 9, 2005 — The rapid spread of vicious street gangs such as MS-13 is causing alarm in cities and suburbs nationwide, igniting bitter debate about how best to combat the threat and inspiring a comprehensive anti-gang bill in Congress.....

Sponsored by Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., the bill moved swiftly through the House Judiciary Committee last month and is scheduled for a House floor vote Wednesday. It would turn many gang-related violent offenses into federal crimes punishable by mandatory sentences of at least 10 years, expand the range of crimes punishable by death, and enable U.S. prosecutors to try 16- and 17-year-old gang members as adults in federal courts.
...
The bill's supporters include the National Sheriffs' Association and the Fraternal Order of Police, the nation's largest law enforcement union. If approved, it would move to the Senate where Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) have introduced a bill combining tough anti-gang measures with new funding for crime prevention programs.

Opponents include numerous high-powered civil rights groups the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union, Human Rights Watch and others. They cite FBI findings that serious youth crime is declining, say states not the federal government can best address the gang problem and worry about long-term consequences for teenage offenders sent to adult prisons.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=741724&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. And what about the problems in our society

that lead to increased gang membership?

Wouldn't it be smarter and more cost-effective to PREVENT gangs rather than prosecute the members?

[Shadder]

2. Sure would.

Your 100% right. I happen to live in a gang infested neighborhood that is made ou for the vast majority of childern of illegal immigrents from central american nations ranging in age from 7 on up. Seems to me in this case we have a simple solution but no, nobody wants to talk about border control.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. I teach in a neighborhod

inhabited by a majority of immigrants. We are absolutely overwhelmed with gang problems. This year, the two worst gangs are made up of middle school aged kids.

[AlCzervik]

6. live a little south of Sacramento-the meth capitol of the world

and gang related violence has gone up significantly in the past 5 years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Hey hey

A suburban city just east of here was called the meth capitol of the USA about ten years ago. But they do seem to have had some success getting rid of it. I don't think it is near the problem it used to be. Sounds like the meth heads headed west.

I know a retired sheriff from a small town and he told me there are a lot of meth labs springing up here in KS in small towns and rural areas. And some of those meth cookers have exotic animals as pets. In my friend's town, a bengal tiger roamed in to the high school from a yard across the street. Turns out the tiger's owner was running a big meth cooking operation.

[rodeodance]

4. all punitive meansures from the house

[Daphne08]

23. Yep, but that's not the Republican way.

[LdyGuique]

5. The primary reason for the upsurge in gangs is due to

illegal immigration -- tighten up border security and deal with illegal immigration would put a major dent in the issue. At this point, the feds have caused the problem and until they address the bigger issue effectively, what can states do? They've had their funding cut back on all crime issues and can't build prisons fast enough at a state level.

I kid of any age who commits grievous crimes of murder and mayhem in order to gain membership into a gang knows "right from wrong." They aren't innocent children by this time.

I'm generally opposed to mandatory sentences as this doesn't seem to be the solution either.

Incarceration into prisons without any rehab attempted also doesn't seem to be working. The U.S. currently has the largest prison population in the world and still represents only 5 percent of the total population.

Something is going very wrong in this country and there are no simple solutions left.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

17. Where do you find

That illegal immigration "causes" gangs? What is your evidence?

[Rex]

7. Gangs proliferate because we won't treat the source

namely poverty and ignorance. The repukes like it this way - more clients for their prison industrial complex.

[Ron Green]

8. Tribalism is a more natural state than society.

As long as it's all "us vs. them," we'll have more tribalism, whether it's gang-related, sports-related, race-related, denominational, economic or whatever.

And "us vs. them" is what the builders and operators of empire are using to further their agenda.

[Virginian]

13. Without assimilation "us vs. them" will persist -- colonies will persist.

People are coming into this country so fast that they are forming colonies.

One of the solution to the crime problem is to get rid of poverty, but the poverty problem is getting worse, not better. It is growing faster than any government program could keep up with.

We educate the children of illegals, but what can they do with their education? Unless they were born after their parents got here, they are not legal to work in the US either. They will never be able to pay taxes to support the schools or to support social security. They will never be able to pull themselves up from poverty.

I heard on the news about someone who was arrested couldn't be deported because his country wouldn't take him back. We need to secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws so that people like him don't come in.

[Ron Green]

16. But doesn't that go against the basic ideals of the United States as

a haven for immigrants? It's always been immigrants that were welcomed here and built this nation. Also, if you close the borders, the "us vs. them" will continue, just on an international scale.

My view is that slavery is the natural state of man, and despite anything we do, the world is sliding back into its normal status of slavery and war.

[Shadder]

21. Not at all

Keep in mind that the immigrants that have been welcomed here in the past and continue to be welcomed today arrived here - for the most part - in the legal, proper way. As opposed to the mess we currently are in where we have untold numbers of people sneaking in every day.

[Virginian]

24. You seem to think legal and illegal are the same.

This country IS a country of immigrants and it needs to continue to welcome immigrants, after all, we are the melting pot of the world.

At present, between the legal and illegal, the infusion is too fast and there is no melting going on. What are we supposed to do, stop the legal immigration because the illegals are taking their spots?

The new bill that just passed the Senate has a piece in it that limits Australian immigration to 5,000 a year. It splits the H-2b visas (non-farm unskilled) quota to not exceed 33,000 (that's half) in the first six months so that the entire quota isn't used up in the first three months. There are limits to control growth at a reasonable level, a level that our economy can handle. Flooding the system with unskilled illegal foreign nationals puts a strain on all US resources and has an impact on us all.

Illegals do not pay income taxes, because they can not legally received an income. That means they do not pay into Social Security or Medicaid/Medicare. Legal immigrants DO pay taxes like the rest of us.

[pinniped]

9. What does the stupid first lady have to say about this?

Just a couple weeks ago she had a master plan to stop gang violence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Just like Nancy Reagan solved the drug problem?

These republican first ladies need to stick to redecorating the WH.

[maddezmom]

12. NYT- Congress Rekindles Battle on Mandatory Sentences

WASHINGTON, May 10 - Just months after the Supreme Court struck down federal sentencing formulas, the House is moving to institute new mandatory minimum sentences, beginning with a sweeping bill to fight street gangs.

The bill, which the House is expected to approve on Wednesday, would greatly increase federal penalties for gang-related crimes. It would change the definition of a criminal street gang to three people who have committed at least two crimes together, at least one of them violent, from five.

Also pending is a bill passed by the House Judiciary Committee that would apply much harsher mandatory minimums to federal drug offenses. A third bill intended to protect judicial officials would establish mandatory minimum sentences for courthouse crimes.

"It makes a huge difference with the courts throwing out the mandatory sentences," said Representative J. Randy Forbes, Republican of Virginia and sponsor of the gang bill. "Because that is the only way we know of that you are going to able to come to one of the criminals and say, 'This is what you are going to face.' "

~snip~
more: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/11/politics/11gang.html

[wildwww2]

14. A vicious gang of repukelicans are causing alarm in the whole freaking

world. And these evil bitches and bastards in congress won`t do a thing about it. They will fail at this too. Unless becoming more fascist is a good thing.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[CWebster]

15. Canaries in the mine

Bad economic times ahead.

[salin]

19. I was just thinking

my work in various urban communities, with youth, gives me the sense that organized gang violence rises and falls with the economy, and perceived ability for youth to "have a future" via the traditional route (education, job, etc.) The more prolonged unemployment seen - esp for relatives with some higher education... the greater the pull for the faster, riskier route - along with a sense of despair (as in... "I am not going to make it past age ___, anyhow..." - which was a sentiment I heard frequently from youth in Detroit in the last bush recession in the early nineties.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

18. Why lock em up

When you can deploy em?

But seriously, the time has come to stop this absurdity. 99 year sentences for wearing baggy pants, and whatnot. Gangs are getting "worse" after twenty years of enhanced sentencing and anti-gang legislation.

Are the American people going to keep BUYING INTO the law enforcement con game?

Is the money we need for TEACHERS, NURSES, and INFRASTRUCTURE going to keep getting sucked into COPS' and PRISON GUARDS' fat guts and sat upon by their lard-asses?

[Roland99]

20. But...but...but...Pickles was addressing street gang violence

It should all be cleared up by now.

[underpants]

22. Sounds like a hate crime type bill that Repubs claim to dislike

Sounds like it to me.