U.S. poll puts McCain No. 2 in GOP primary

[Miss Chybil]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0509AZinDC09.html

May. 9, 2005 12:00 AM

Another national poll, this one released on Friday, shows Arizona's Sen. John McCain trailing former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani among early leaders among potential candidates for the 2008 GOP presidential nomination.

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Of the 352 Republicans and GOP-leaning voters reached, Giuliani was the favorite of 27 percent and McCain the pick of 20 percent.

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But the Marist survey also shows that McCain - despite his second-place standing in a GOP primary battle - would be a stronger candidate than Giuliani nationwide against the leading Democrats.

McCain bests both Democratic New York Sen. Hillary Clinton (50 percent to 42 percent); and Democratic Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (51-41) among a total of 1,007 Republican, Democrat and independent voters surveyed.

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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0509AZinDC09.html

[mzmolly]

1. No offense but I do not think Clinton or Kerry will get our nomination

in 08. Democrats want a "winner" and that likely/unfortunately means White, Southern Male. Now, what we have to do is find one that meets our criteria. I tire of the MSM pushing Hilary Clinton on us for 2008. I like HC but she has not said she's running AND ... we have got to win handilly this time.

[AndreaCG]

5. White Southern Male = Wes Clark

A pretty good choice IMO.

[Nickster]

8. I was never a big Wes fan, but I'm starting to come around to

your line of thinking. Wes just might be our only chance.

[mzmolly]

28. I think he'd be a good choice, but I think were gonna need the ENTIRE

package. Governor/National Security experience combo.

I'd support Clark however. :hi:

[AlGore-08.com]

31. White Southern Male with a record of legislatve success = Al Gore

Additionally, Gore has proven he can win a national election - - fun factoid: Gore won a higher popular vote total than Kennedy got in 1960 or Nixon got in 1968.

Gore opposed the Iraq war before it was voted on by Congress - - ditto the Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, Smirk's tax cuts for the rich, Smirk's social security privatization "plan"... all of it.

Y'all might also want to check out Al Gore's MoveOn speeches given over the last two years for more good reasons to support Gore.

http://www.algore-08.com

[UCLA Dem]

36. But from what I've heard he's not considered "southern"...

he's lived most of his life away from the south and is not seen as "one of them" so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, I love Al Gore, but I think we need a really charismatic southern political, with whom everyone in the country can identify with and get behind.

[mzmolly]

37. Boy that thought gets me jazzed!

:applause:

[Massacure]

45. Thank you captain obvious. There are more people today than 40 years ago.

[UCLA Dem]

34. If he becomes a more savvy politician, I think he's got a good shot.

[mzmolly]

41. That and starts harping on "National Security" issues - big time.

:)

[jsw_81]

15. What do you mean unfortunately?

The last three Democratic presidents -- four if you count popular vote winner Al Gore -- have been white, southern males.

[mzmolly]

26. What I mean is it's a shame that we have to choose a Southern White

Male simply because he is "a southern white male"

I have not an issue with Clinton/Gore/Carter ~ Love them all!

[iamjoy]

19. Virginia's Mark Warner

White, Southern, Male

[mzmolly]

27. Could be? I think Clark and Edwards are toying with it too, however

both lack governing experience and I think the public will want that?

[iamjoy]

46. It Should Be A Governor

It seems governors win more elections than Senators.
Of course, Warner is out this year and how will he keep himself in the public political eye for the next three years?

[mzmolly]

49. I agree, I think were gonna "play it safe" next time.

:shrug:

[UCLA Dem]

33. I agree. I love Hillary, but she's a woman and not from the south.

Its a sad reality, but while the south continues to control national politics, a woman doesn't have a chance, let alone a liberal woman.

[mzmolly]

35. Agreed.

One can dream .. but we can't afford to roll the dice in 2008.

[UCLA Dem]

38. I know....I'll keep dreaming with you.

[Miss Chybil]

50. Why does the South control the entire country? Didn't they want to

secede at one time? I'm voting for Hillary.

[woosh]

2. The gop exploitation of 911 makes me sick.

Rudy Fucking Giuliani was down and out until 9/11 annointed him a saint, now he's a leading candidate for pres.

[HockeyMom]

25. Rest of doesn't know Rudy

They just know Saint Rudy of 9/11. Pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro gun control. Not to mention if they ever investigate him, Kerik will look like a boy scout.

Not going to happen.

[UCLA Dem]

39. I agree. He's got too many skeletons in his closet. He won't make it.

[mzmolly]

29. Indeed.

:puke:

[leesa]

3. Who in their right mind would vote for this turn-coat sleazebag?

[dubyaD40web]

4. It's funny you should say that.....

[jsw_81]

16. Republicans won't, that's for sure

His moderate, pro-choice, pro-gay stances may play well in New York and Massachusetts, but red-state Republicans want no part of it. And that's a very good thing because Giuliani, like McCain, would probably kick our butt in the general election. We are very fortunate to have such stupid enemies.

[TheWraith]

18. He wouldn't win a general.

The fundies and ultrawingnuts would stay home, and the important states like NY know better than to vote Republican for president. As a matter of fact, if we ran an upstanding and likable southerner, Rudy would probably put most of the south and SW into play.

[UCLA Dem]

42. Agreed. Especially after this current [p]resident in office with all the

shit they've pulled and if we run a strong candidate, we should be able to win.

[Orangepeel]

6. there is no way that either Giuliani or McCain will win the R nomination

unless republican moderates rise up and take back their party from right wing extremists, which I don't see happening.

[mpyle27]

23. Frist is their boy!!

I agree, Rudy and John are not Jesus people.

[UCLA Dem]

43. Yes! Now lets get a great candidate and kick some butt!!

[dissent1977]

7. The corporate media continues to sicken me with their polls

None of the candidates have even officialy announced they are running yet, and the corporate powers that be are already trying to tell us who our candidates are going to be. How do they know there won't be another Howard Dean type candidate that enters the race as an unknown, and then becomes a major contendor, and how do they know that this time that candidate won't go all the way?

I don't know anyone who wants Hillary or Kerry to be the candidate, and I am sick of being told that one of them will be the candidate. It is way too early, and there are many of us out here that do not want a DLC corporate sellout on the ballot.

[TheWraith]

17. I suppose it doesn't matter that Howard Dean got stomped in the primaries?

Dean was as much or more a creation of the media as any other candidate. His grassroots groundswell turned out to be a handful of people and one really bad campaign manager. He was the 'frontrunner' because he'd raised a bunch of money and the media wanted a story.

[dissent1977]

44. Dean was merely an example

I believe I acknowledged that Dean got stomped in the primaries in my post when I pointed out he did not go all the way. In fact I was not even a Dean supporter, I was just pointing out that for an unknown he made it a long ways and came pretty close to getting the nomination. You seem to be missing my point entirely, and that point is that the media has no clue who is going to win in 2008 and these early polls are their attempt to cement a candidate before the race even gets started.

I never claimed that Dean won the primaries, please don't put words in my mouth. Of course it matters that he lost, but that does not excuse these corporate pollsters who only ask about DLC candidates.

[oasis]

9. McCain and Tony Blair are nothing but Bush ass kissing traitors.

[Nickster]

10. Who's that hiding in the corner? Jeb?! C'mon out Jeb and announce

your candidacy, cmon, you know you want to.

[WI_DEM]

11. Giulani can't win the nomination

and even if he did he is dead meat. I think he's been married three times and had an affair with his third wife while serving as Mayor and still married to his second wife. He makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy. So he is vulnerable on the "moral issues" he also is vulnerable on "experience"--I don't think that being Mayor of NYC is enough experience to be president.

McCain would be tougher. He has that Maverick image. We would have to really tie him to the conservative wing of the party--which he is and also make his age and unpredictablilty an issue.

[iamjoy]

21. Guiliani Is Hardly Vulnerable On Morals

only Democrats are held to that standard, Republicans can do whatever they want.

[Orangepeel]

30. but what about when they are running against other republicans?

McCain was "vulnerable on morals" in 2000 when he supposedly had a black baby out of wedlock and a drug addicted wife. In the Florida primary, McCullum was "vulnerable on morals" for being the darling of the homosexual lobby.

I don't think Frist, for example, will hesitate to TRY to make Guiliani vulnerable on morals. Of course, should Guiliani somehow win the primary, all of that will be "old news" and no longer relevant.

[iamjoy]

47. You Are Right

I hate to think it, but Guiliani could probably hand us our asses in a GE, but he would never get the Republican nomination since their primaries are run by the Radical Clerics.

[Love Bug]

32. Thank you --- exactly right

All Guiliani has to do is have a "change of heart" on Choice and publicly "repent" of his middle-age "youthful indiscretions" and all will be forgiven -- he'll then be free to run with the full backing of the RNC.

[PATRICK]

12. Powell used to be up there

in media darling polls before the real festivities started. Their poor judgment in even presenting such polls is ritualistic. Their horses never finish precisely because they have some populist following or media flash(mainly phony rules, I wonder why). What happened to their perennial choice Powell anyway?

27 per cent of delusional GOP or non delusional GOP? region, Wingnut meter... it is absolutely meaningless except as mere name recognition at this point. Guiliani has already been markedly sabotaged but ignoring the message is a pre-requisite of political gall and the ignorant public. Both these dupes will continue to be used to garner "inclusiveness" and force the Dems to respond when there is not the slightest intention of letting these tow sneak past the early primaries if at all possible.

Who is REALLY being groomed then? Jeb. Hagel. Maybe Arnold. Some other horse in the Bushco/votescam stable. One requisite. The "experienced" Cheney appointees must be carried over or they will sabotage their own and have fun ruining a weak Dem compromiser better than did with Clinton.

Horse race or coronation, democracy or rigged election? Conduct some process opinion polls that do matter or these pathetic predictions might as well be in People Magazine's best and worst dressed poll.

[Toucano]

13. That'll be his peak.

Fundies are no fan.

[unhappycamper]

14. McCain is a numbah 2. Good title for the post......

I usta like the guy before I found out who his daddy is. I wonder how they got him to whore. Was it money? Was it KKKarl behind the curtain? This man has been very disappointing.

[realFedUp]

20. I read that George Allen polled better than others

Yeah, run George Allen...what a pansy.

[iamjoy]

22. Who Is George Allen?

a name in politics I do not know....

[mpyle27]

24. Senator

Former Governor of Virginia and son of former Redskins coach (can't remember name).

[Brooklyn Michael]

40. Cautious Optimism?

I don't want to jinx anything, and this is by NO means an endorsement of McCain, Giuliani, or any other GOP potential nominee, BUT....

Could it just be that the first election in over a generation WITHOUT an encumbant running for re-election (or promotion in the case of 2-term VP's) could actually let an honest-to-goodness DEBATE OF THE ISSUES occur?

Yeah, I know, the GOP will still play dirty and obfuscate, lie and slander their way to November 2008, but McCain and Giuliani, for all their faults, are hardly in the thrall of the religious right. And to take a page from Pat "Fucking CRAAAAA-ZY" Robertson's playbook, the religious right is the biggest threat this country faces.

Without the ad nauseum "scandal" (:sarcasm:) of Monica-gate (and a piss-poor campaign by Gore), Dubya doesn't get "elected" (:sarcasm: :sarcasm:).

Without 9/11, no WAY President Bunnypants gets re-elected.

If a moderate Republican even gets the GOP nomination, we'll already be better off for it because we'll actually be able to discuss issues without playing to the bible thumpers and swift boat liars.....and then we win. And then everybody, ALL Americans win (Republicans too, even though they won't understand why).

Or so I hope....

[PATRICK]

48. The machine and policies are entrenched

It is not the luster of a Reagan but the criminal, unbeaten power of a machine that guarantees the next guy will be "on the team", either a toady or one of the inner circle. That is how they have been competing, not for the blessing of Junior but for the rear role position, full lipstick. It is pretty evident that McCain understands the fundamental ground rules without facing the fact it is the very thing that utterly dooms his chances. Very unrealistic in that party.

Guiliani neither, nor some simpleton ideologue. Some soldiering stooge who will take the perks AND the Bush-Cheney team. I really think they FEAR a simple kiss-up ultimately taking some independent tack and putting their own in. I think it forces a total conflict between a Bush/Cheney machine and all comers because they will, possibly cannot afford even to sit out an independent Presidency even if all is rigged to protect them and their agenda.

[salin]

51. bwahahaha - neither of these is a fav of the Dobson Frist crowd

as Nelson would say "HA HA!" Let them cringe, and then wreak damage in the primaries to try to prevent either of these candidacies.

[Larkspur]

52. Didn't Trent Lott tell Giuliani that Rudy would not win the South

due to Rudy's pro-choice positions?

McCain at 20% and behind Giuliani doesn't bode will for the former Republican Prez candidate's chances at winning the Repuke nomination.

Wonder how many Reichwing Religious nuts were polled in this poll?