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Rolling Stone: The Quagmire - It's beginning to look a lot like Vietnam

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:23 AM
Original message
Rolling Stone: The Quagmire - It's beginning to look a lot like Vietnam
The Quagmire
As the Iraq war drags on, it's beginning to look a lot like Vietnam
By ROBERT DREYFUSS

The news from Iraq is bad and getting worse with each passing day. Iraqi insurgents are stepping up the pace of their attacks, unleashing eleven deadly bombings on April 29th alone. Many of the 150,000 Iraqi police and soldiers hastily trained by U.S. troops have deserted or joined the insurgents. The cost of the war now tops $192 billion, rising by $1 billion a week, and the corpses are piling up: Nearly 1,600 American soldiers and up to 100,000 Iraqi civilians are dead, as well as 177 allied troops and 229 private contractors. Other nations are abandoning the international coalition assembled to support the U.S., and the new Iraqi government, which announced its new cabinet to great fanfare on April 27th, remains sharply split along ethnic and religious lines.

But to hear President Bush tell it, the war in Iraq is going very, very well. In mid-April, appearing before 25,000 U.S. soldiers at sun-drenched Fort Hood, in Texas, Bush declared that America has succeeded in planting democracy in Iraq, creating a model that will soon spread throughout the Middle East. "That success is sending a message from Beirut to Tehran," the president boasted to chants of "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" from the troops. "The establishment of a free Iraq is a watershed event in the global democratic revolution." Staying on message, aides to Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, later suggested that U.S. forces could be reduced from 142,000 to 105,000 within a year.

In private, however, senior military advisers and intelligence specialists on Iraq offer a starkly different picture. Two years after the U.S. invasion, Iraq is perched on the brink of civil war. Months after the election, the new Iraqi government remains hunkered down inside the fortified Green Zone in Baghdad, surviving only because it is defended by thousands of U.S. troops. Iraqi officials hold meetings and press conferences in Alamo-like settings, often punctuated by the sounds of nearby explosions. Outside the Green Zone, party offices and government buildings are surrounded by tank traps, blast walls made from concrete slabs eighteen feet high, and private militias wielding machine guns and AK-47s. Even minor government officials travel from fort to fort in heavily armed convoys of Humvees.

"I talk to senior military people and combat commanders who tell me that the situation is much more precarious than admitted," says Col. Patrick Lang, former Middle East chief for the Defense Intelligence Agency. "Even inside the Green Zone you are not safe, because of indirect fire. And if you were to venture outside at night, they'd probably find your headless body the next morning."

(more)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7287564?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7&rnd=1115325831843&has-player=unknown
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doodadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have a bumper sticker on my truck
(beside my Kerry-Edwards one!) that says, "Quagmire Accomplished!" Got it at the Fresno anti-war rally last month.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for posting this..
The most sobering article I have read in some time.

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. GOOD MORNING VIETRAQ!
HEY HEY BUSH AND BLAIR
HOW MANY KIDS WILL YA KILL OVER THERE!
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Apparently 269 Iraqis killed in attacks in past 9 days
Ah. Freedom.

:eyes:
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And nothing mentioned in the MSM about them.
and more on the Runaway bride... an update on the runaway bride story... the latest on the runaway bride
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. the runaway bride is the runaway press
If it's news its news to us
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Look how bushCartel define "success"...
Edited on Fri May-06-05 11:06 AM by LynnTheDem
"Staying on message, aides to Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, later suggested that U.S. forces could be reduced from 142,000 to 105,000 within a year."

WOW!!! RAH RAH RAH WE'RE THE BEST!!!

Except for one little detail dropped forever down the Memory hole...

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DOWN TO 30,000 TWO YEARS AGO.
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yeah, it's messy.
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DemBeans Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. that's the tragedy that seldom gets mentioned...
When I watched the CSPAN rebroadcast of the BBC election program, Blair went on and on about the number of Iraqis Saddam had killed. I was shocked, that in an audience that was predominantly hostile to him, that no one followed up with a question about the number of Iraqis our invasion has killed, directly or indirectly. It's like they don't exist.

The fact that Blair would even have the nerve to mention Iraqis killed under the Saddam regime, when every day you hear of these huge Iraqi casualties, just shows how evil and soulless the warmongers really are.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. yeah, I can't believe that is never mentioned n/t
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. great article
yet comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam always irritate me not because they aren't similar in many ways but in the one way in which they are most glaringly dissimilar. That is the primary faith in Vietnam is Buddhism which is unquestionably the most forgiving of all the major religions. Islam is quite the contrary. Family conflicts go on for generations. See the Shia/ Sunnie conflict for reference.

In Vietnam, we didn't piss off one third of the world's population comprised of those who ascribe to one of the world's most vengeful and unforgiving faiths.

I heard an interview last week with South Vietnamese man who had sided with our forces there and who was incarcerated by the Communists for many, many years and lost everything. He held no malice towards us whatsoever.

Tell me that the innocents we've tortured, maimed, incarcerated and the loved one's of those we've slaughtered in Iraq will feel similarly to that Buddhist in 30 years. Doubt it.
'
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ehh, don't worry about it. They're all just furriners. They just need
to know Jaysus, and everything will be all right.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. "If we don't put some thought into HOW we retaliate,
Edited on Fri May-06-05 11:46 AM by rocknation
we're going to end up with a war that has Viet Nam's fingerprints all over it."

:headbang:
rocknation
(DU, October 2001)
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LoneDriver Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Viet Nam was prettier
Nice and green, before we defoliated it. Besides Viet Nam had sex, drugs and rock'n roll. However the outcome will surely be the same. One day, the US will leave. Sooner or later, now or in 200 years, the US will decide it is not worth the cost and we will leave and all the players know that.
All the technology of war still cannot beat a determined guerrilla operating in his home environment.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Yep -- the only way to beat "a determined guerrilla operating in his
home environemnt" is genocide (as when Europeans came here and all but completely wiped out the First Americans). And that's according to military history of some several millennia.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. And, we have our "Nick Ut photo" for Iraq.......


An interesting reflection:
http://www.amherst.edu/magazine/issues/05winter/war/ut.html

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. It'll look alot more like Vietnam when * reinstates the draft n/t
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm waiting for the Tet offensive
or Ramadan offensive as the case may be. I hope I'm completely wrong.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well, at least all that Iraqi oil is paying for everything
Oh wait, they fucked that up, too. :eyes:
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. in a show of support for actual journalism i think ill subscribe to rs
it has been a pretty good magazine over the years and since they are one of the few who bother to report anything of substance ill have to let them know its appreciated
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bush- "the war in Iraq is going very, very well" his family is cashing in
on war profits and will continue to make enormous profits as long as the war continues.

That's what members of the Bush family consider to be a war going very well - when they rake money in hand over fist as other people die and there is no end to the war in sight.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. At Least this Officer is Telling The truth about bushco** Policy...

"Our policy is to make Iraq a colony," he says. "We won't let go."

Iraq is now our 52 state.

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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. anyone else watch 'Hearts & Minds' last night?
For those who don't know, it's an Academy Award winning documentary on Vietnam, made in 1974. Was on Discovery Times last night (and today). Anyway, watching it was pretty eerie. Sounds so much like what is happening today.

Shaking my head..........
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