LAT: Bush Plan Aims to Get Americans Off the Government Dole

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-assess30apr30,0,6226353,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines

As the full dimensions of President Bush's Social Security plan come into view, so too does a broader vision of reducing most Americans' reliance on government programs that long have helped see them through economic difficulties.

Although Bush devoted most of his prime-time news conference Thursday to describing how he would expand Social Security protections, virtually all of his improvements would be aimed at the bottom one-third of American wage earners. The remaining two-thirds or so would see their future Social Security benefits curtailed, a reduction that they'd be encouraged to make up by saving and investing of their own.

The president often portrays his effort as simply trying to accommodate reality; funds to pay full Social Security benefits are expected to run out toward the middle of the century. But his approach also corresponds to a long-held conservative goal of reducing Washington's influence in the lives of ordinary Americans and to the aim of Bush chief political strategist Karl Rove to realign the nation along Republican principles.

"What you're going to see is an effort to scale back middle-class entitlements that many people do not need and to become more focused on the anti-poverty aspects of these programs," said Michael Tanner, a senior official with the small-government Cato Institute in Washington.

"We're going to tell non-poor Americans that they are going to have to save more on their own and not depend on a transfer from government," he said.

[DBoon]

1. Bush plans to move Americans into cardboard boxes

and encourage entrepreneurship through training in high-demand occupations such as freeway on-ramp orange sales, service station window washer, and other growing occupational categories

[AuntiBush]

16. Ain't it the truth... How about bringing back the old way of travel

You know... Hopping Box Car trains, while we hop, skip and jump our way through the country.

Shoot. Forgot. His Congessional flock derailed transportation a few weeks back.

Note: Hysterical post. I'm at that level where I'm numb laughing. I think they call it "SHOCK!"

[Jose Diablo]

43. Amana makes the best boxes

you can cut a three sided flap for a window, put blankets in the bottom, it's a little cramped, but if positioned under a bridge to stay dry, it's livable. I doubt anyone could raise a family in one though.

For that person, that is foot-loose and fancy free, it works. Easy to move-on too. Just roll-up the blankets into a sack and walk away. No real estate to worry about, low maintenance. Think of it as a low budget condo.

I am reminded of an experience I had in India. There was this guy riding a bike and he was dressed like an engineer, maybe a banker. Well, he rides his bike up onto the sidewalk, parks the bike and locks it. Takes his shoes off. Then he climbs into a sort of lean to made of canvas, that was fastened against the brick wall by the sidewalk. This was where he lived, and the way he was dressed, he was making good money, for India. People adjust, for him this was normal. I doubt anyone here, in the states, will go for this though. And we are supposed to compete against that for a standard of living?

This is what Republicans dream about, for us. Think of all the money they can make if they only have to pay us like $2/day and pay no taxes.

Edit: You know, thinking about it, I imagine that about 50% of the worlds population, lives just like that. If you travel overseas a lot, in every city I have flown into, you can see these 'cities' close by airports, it looks like a sea of tin roofs, one room homes. There are whole generations of people that have lived just like this, for practically forever. They can never escape from it, you need money to become educated, and to make money you need education. No way out. Generation after generation. It can happen here too.

I would imagine that a lot of the investment money to build those plants in India and China came right from here, from our 401 investment savings. Imagine that, our money is used to put us out of work.LOL

[bagnana]

2. It is not "dole".

I have contributed and will contribute money from my paycheck every fucking year of my working life and expect that money to be there when I retire. What assholes these people are!! I hate them so much!

[cosmicdot]

7. indeed; hopefully the LAT and Peter G. Gosselin, the writer

will get a ear full regarding the difference

it's certainly not charity

of course, the article's title is often the job of an editor vs. the writer ... but, still ...


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-assess30apr30,0,4856942.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[AuntiBush]

17. Join the club!

We need to take a POLL of our own out here.

How many times in each day do you:

1. Look for anyone just to cuss that Chimp out?
2. Call or hope the phone rings so you can continue to cuss the Chimp out?
3. Cuss Bush out? 3, 6, 25 or more?
4. Swear you're gonna turn off Cable/Sattalite if true news does not return?
5. Pray for impeachment?
6. Look 'round to see if "they're coming for ya," cause you're cussing the ba#tard out daily?

I mean... shew. Know where you're coming from.

[fasttense]

28. I'm with you Bagnana.

I've contributed for over thirty years and I'm told the government is not going to give me back the money it took. I'm spitting nails. Dole my behind. I worked for that money. At the age of fifteen I was cleaning counters and scrubbing walls. I could barely afford my dinner but they still took money out for SS. Now where is it?

[cmd]

44. Dole?

Who the hell's money is it anyway. It comes from the people and belongs to the people.

[zann725]

66. Has the makings of a real "Class Action" suit, if people'd wake up!

It's an "insurance policy" we all paid into. By NOT honoring it (by spending our investment elsewhere...i.e. War and Embezzlement), they're committing a REAL impeachable offense. That most who are pushing for SS "reform" (including corporations) rarely pay taxes at all, yet spend ours...is even more outrageous!

[opihimoimoi]

3. Is there a corrective option should Bushies Proposal passes?

What would happen should this proposal result in negative results?

Is there a way to correct the damn thing....or, are we stuck with it forever? Obviously not for we can correct almost anything of this nature, but at what cost??? Who pays for the bill should things go awry. The taxpayers once again pays for the mistake?? Most likely I would say.

[CottonBear]

5. The BIG question is can we reverse this proposal if it passes?

I am afraid that we only have until the 206 elections to reverse course.

Of course, we must reclaim the media and reach the $ voters who are now voting against their own best interests.

[AuntiBush]

20. Are You Kidding me?

Seriously? Folks I know say, "oh, it will be ok... Dems will gain control in a few years and reverse all this BS!"

I keep telling them, I dunno about that.
I need to keep a barf bag nearby these days.

[shanti]

62. yup

they won't give up control willingly! nothing a little voting machine shenanigans can't contain.

[saskatoon]

52. reach the voters?

nice thought but haven't you recognized that 80% of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, in other words DUMB, bumfoozled by the Prince charming with his cute little grin (this re some ladies) and so godawful many with the fairy tales re born again and all that crappola. Sheesh!@

[fasttense]

29. I've already paid the bill!!!!!!!!!!

I've paid the bill for the last thirty years and now a bunch of lying, cheating, trust fund, idle rich are trying to steal my money. I've paid for it already.

[shanti]

63. trying?

i truly believe that it's already been stolen, they're just trying to find a good excuse/reason to hide the fact.

[Corgigal]

4. What youre going to see

is a bunch of people who never gave a flip before voting for the first time and republicans losing offices. Not that Bush cares at all because he got his 8 years.

[TheDebbieDee]

6. Corgigal, we saw a bunch people who never gave a flip before

voting in the last election and it didn't seem to do any good. * and his "dipshits of doom" stole another election.

[shraby]

8. Maybe its time to get corporations

and politicians off the dole.

[Lindacooks]

24. You speak the truth!!

I'm sick to death of corporations and the uber-rich getting tax breaks and ripping off everyone else. The amount of money they're getting makes what poorer Americans get, if they're lucky, look like chump change.

[MissWaverly]

39. maybe if more politicians had to ride the subway

they would be more appreciative of the job that working America does
and that the workers of America are entitled to their earned income which they have invested into Social Security. It's time for lean
cuisine for those fat cats.
The word "entitle" means give a legal right to, what are they "giving" us, SSN is earned income.

[Corgigal]

9. True

because it was too close and might have allowed, ah bumps in the system to occur. It's got to be a huge turnout and revenge, if it's the only damn thing you can do, will taste sweet.

[AndyTiedye]

14. We HAD a Huge Turnout. We NEED the BIGGEST LANDSLIDE EVER!!

If the Repiglicans can get more than 35% they will steal it again.
Everything will be looking great for us,
and then they'll flash up another scene of the Boosh Family around the fireplace
and all the numbers will start changing.
Again.
and they will declare Jeb Boosh*** pResident.

We need at least twice as many votes as them to win.
With their control of the press, they might still be able to steal it,

[dusty64]

37. None of it matters

as long as the extreme extreme wrongwing owns and controls the "voting" machines. I think the rethugs know they can't "lose" and that is why they are poised to "fast track" and shove the destruction of Social Security next month. There will be NO consequences to this action cause the "winners" are preprogrammed.

[Carolab]

10. What the FUCK does this mean?

"What you're going to see is an effort to scale back middle-class entitlements that many people do not need and to become more focused on the anti-poverty aspects of these programs," said Michael Tanner, a senior official with the small-government Cato Institute in Washington.

The POOR??????????????? How in the HELL does this help the poor and WHY in the hell should I MAKE SURE THE POOR ARE OKAY TO MY OWN DETRIMENT?????????

I've been working my ass off and paying MORE than my fair share into FICA for my ENTIRE working life, since the age of 15 (I'm 56) and I'm "middle class" and I SURE don't have discretionary income to pay out for the POOR.

I've been paying in through the nose since forever, and THAT IS MY FREAKING MONEY TO RETIRE ON.

[RamboLiberal]

15. Carolab I'm not criticizing you cause I'm screaming the same thing

But I have to admit I will be ROFLMAO if the koolaid drinkers go along with *'s plan and not realize it's gonna bite them in the butt. Then I will know they are truly stupid.

I think these idiot pundits like this writer seem to forget that except for the self-employed (who I pity cause they pay all the SS tax) that our employers also contributed half the money to the SS Fund.

Isn't what we get back in guaranteed benefits what we should expect with interest the money we earned! Calling this a dole is insulting. I'm gonna write LAT a letter tomorrow on this!

I think unless the * voters are really drunk on the koolaid that * will have lit a firestorm even under them. Imagine if Clinton, Gore or Kerry had proposed this! There would've been a lynching in DC.

The 10-20% that support this plan must be the very rich or the theocons who won't need SS anyway cause they will be Raptured to Jesus!

[Carolab]

19. Thanks for not criticizing me, but I'll accept your pity.

I'M self employed.

[RamboLiberal]

40. Self-employed - I was there once myself

Loved the freedom, but couldn't afford the double taxation nor the fact I could not deduct the cost I paid for my health insurance.

[Erika]

21. But Bush says if you make more than 20, 000 to 35,000

you will pay for the poor. But the millionaires simply laugh.

[confludemocrat]

35. And will suffer a benefit cut

an underhanded divide-and-conquer act of evil by an evil cabal that not many seem to get yet.

[AuntiBush]

22. Trying working most of your life... since very early teens

and then tragedy happens. Suddenly, you're stinkin poor.

[Iowa]

26. Carolab, you're exactly right!

I'm 53. I worked since age 15 too. There are plenty of ways to tweak this without causing massive benefits reductions for people who have paid and played by the rules for 40 years.

Why in the hell would ANYONE buy into the chimp's dumb-ass plan that calls for a massive (40% by some estimates) reductions in benefits, when doing nothing whatsoever would enable us to continue with ZERO reductions for 40-50 years, and then a 20%-30% reduction in benefits? His "solution" creates a bigger crisis, starting now, than the one he pretends to be worried about that may (or may not) occur in half a century.

My wife and I, and our kids, write to our reps frequently to remind then that we will make it our mission in life to throw them out of office if they cooperate in ANY way with the Bush SS theft.

[teryang]

27. It's a bullshit excuse to screw middle age middle class

...it won't help lower income people at all anyway because the scheme is based on falsehoods to begin with.

It's a bunch of Orwellian tripe that doesn't withstand analysis and doesn't get any analysis because it is a bowl of vague mush.

[fasttense]

31. Go Carolab

Middle-class entitlements???? Like you haven't been paying in all your working life and it's a free handout from old Uncle Sam. It's like you've been paying for insurance all your life and when you really need it they tell you sorry we gave it to poor Mr. Smith down the road. He needed more than you did.

[shanti]

11. no more double

or triple dipping. hmmmm

[enid602]

12. dole

If * really wants to get the public off the government dole, he can start by reversing the tax cuts for the rich, and trim down defense contracts (especially star wars and others which involve very expensive equipment suited to only conventional warfare) by half.

[Lorien]

13. At this point, BushCo and their corporate cronies

are doing very well for themselves on the taxpayer dole. :grr:

[Erika]

18. What an elitist reply

Bush never had to work a day in his life. He soaked Texans to build his stadium. Bush is the largest recipient of entitlements we've ever seen.

[Dover]

23. Because it's already all been 'doled' out to him and his elite friends.

The spoils of their coup.

[flordehinojos]

25. from the guy who couldn't hold a job were it not for his poppy's name,

the guy who couldn't keep a steady income were it not for his poppy's fortune ...

we are being abused by the american pResident sitting in the white house today.

but taking a page from his brother jeb's florida who has promoted the FIGHT DO NOT FLEE law in florida... we, the AMERICAN PEOPLE can FIGHT the bastard abuser in the white house with our WORDS against his program to cut our protections AND DEMAND from our SENATORS AND representatives that OUR SOCIAL SECURITY PROTECTIONS BE KEPT IN PLACE.

WE CAN DEMAND THAT CORPORATIONS STOP OFF-SHORE ACCOUNTS. WE CAN DEMAND THAT CORPORATIONS STOP THE OUTSOURCING OF OUR JOBS. WE CAN DEMAND THAT CORPORATIONS BE TAXED and that our retirement funds be securely kept in the SOCIAL SECURITY LOCK BOX PROMISED BY OUR REAL PRESIDENT AL GORE.

HEY, you bush brothers. FIGHT OR FLEE? TAKE THIS! MY WORDS ARE FIGHTING WORDS AGAINST ALL YOUR FOUL SMELLING PERFUME IN OUR FACES AND AGAINST YOUR DASTARDLY ACTS OF BETRAYAL AGAINST US. YOU LYING, CHEATING BOYS!

[screembloodymurder]

30. That's it !

This is the last straw. Bush and his republican friends must go.

[0007]

32. They'll soon get it where there is no middle class and all the

wealth will be in the hands of two percent of the country just like Nigeria and the other third world counties.

[prolesunited]

59. Well, that *is* their plan

I wonder when more American's are going to catch on? Their goal is the elimination of the middle class and a return to the aristocracy of the good old days of the robber barons.

If you're not rich, you might as well be dead — and without adequate living conditions and health care, they'll help us speed up the process.

[shanti]

64. right

that is EXACTLY what they plan to do. :grr:

[damntexdem]

33. No, it's not to get Americans off the public dole --

it's to deny them help when they need it.

[confludemocrat]

34. Your title in initial post is misleading

The LA Times story doesn't have that headline. If you are being ironic fine, but Social Security is not the "public dole" nor an "entitlement". It is retirement insurance, paid for by everyone.

[RamboLiberal]

41. When I linked the story - that's the exact title the web page

with the story had - I don't know what headline the paper had, and if the website headline is different - then the LAT changed it after I posted the story.

[2Design]

36. Get the pres and congress off the dole and reduce their retirement

boondoggles - who is going to pay for that sham -

[cap]

38. middle class entitlement: because the middle class is entitled to it!

we worked our butts off for it!

What about rich people's entitlements or corporate entitlements? Nobody is howling over those in this administration!

Any poor or middle class person having a small pocket of money somewhere is being stripped!

[RamboLiberal]

42. Note to Mods - the LAT changed the headline

The headline I posted was cut and pasted from the LAT story site at the time I posted it - guess the LAT took some heat for dole headline.

Still a provocative headline.

Bush Plan Aids Poor, Squeezes the Rest

[Cha]

49. Wow! The la times needs to

be protested, BIG TIME, right along with cnn.

[wishlist]

45. Bush's brilliant deception: that he wants to increase SS for low earners

As far as I can figure out, Bush is only proposing to keep in place the guaranteed benefit advantage already provided under the current system to the lowest wage earnings while cutting benefits for everyone else. But he managed to make it sound like he was proposing increasing SS benefits for lower earners. Quite a successful sleight of hand to fool so many into thinking he wants a real increase for the poorest when he is just suggesting status quo of no cuts for those with the lowest wages.

[shanti]

65. right

he wants to KEEP SS at the SAME levels for the poor, but there's a sliding scale after about 35,000. it's a frickin shell game.

[Miss Chybil]

46. Can he start with the corporations? nt

[Cha]

47. I don't want my Country to adhere to

repuke principles! And they aren't even republican anymore, anyway..they're fucking neofascists and shame on the la times for buying into that shit!

Oh, and I want to add..that this is just all more Orwellianspeak from the monkeyhouse and I hope the intelligence of the American People can see right through this..even though the fascist press wants us to lap up everything bush tells us to.

Fuck you, whorepress!

[w4rma]

48. Repugs can start reducing the unemployment rate and enacting policy that

encourages higher wages.

Too bad Republicans work to lower the wages of Americans (except CEOs and ultra-wealthy "investors") and raise the unemployment rate (more competition for fewer jobs = lower wages)

[Wizard777]

50. Welfare battle. Flesh and blood vs. paper and ink.

Who deserves welfare more? People or Corporations.

[Skwmom]

51. What about the entitlements that the wealthy class enjoys?

Has anyone ever done a study of the entitlements (for example, sweetheart government contracts) received by the wealthy in this country? I think the dollar amount of such entitlements would be staggering.

[Q]

53. Goodbye Social Welfare...HELLO CORPORATE WELFARE

George isn't fooling anyone.

[young_at_heart]

54. How many "average" people are able to save nowadays?

The dual costs of home ownership and family maintenance makes it difficult to save anything.....just check out the huge credit card debt most people have today. Only Bush contributors can "depend on the government".

[AzDar]

55. Dole? DOLE???? You f*&king sonofabitch, I've been paying into this

system for 18 years, so you can tell me I'm not entitled to it as PROMISED? Get Goddamn corporations like Halliburton off the DOLE, you
business-failing,trust-funded halfwit!!!
ANY lawmaker who goes anywhere NEAR this notion must PAY!!!!!

[bemildred]

56. Americans plan to get Bush off the government dole. nt

[agincourt]

57. The only substantial welfare dole in the country,

is corporate CEO swine welfare and red-state welfare.

[NVMojo]

58. Can we take Bush, his cronies and all his buttkissing corporate pals

of the dole too??

[struggle4progress]

60. kick

[shanti]

61. and the middle class

"The remaining two-thirds or so would see their future Social Security benefits curtailed, a reduction that they'd be encouraged to make up by saving and investing of their own."

so....the top 1/3 will do ok, the bottom 1/3 is covered, but the middle 1/3 is royally f)#@$^&**ed!

they ARE trying to destroy the middle class, i'm positive of it now!