Woman (19) charged in rape of boy, 13

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

HUNTSVILLE — Huntsville investigators charged a 19-year-old woman with the rape of a 13-year-old boy, authorities said Wednesday.

Police spokesman Wendell Johnson said Alexandria Antoinette Andrews was booked into the Madison County Metro Jail on a second-degree rape charge for allegedly having consensual sex with the unnamed juvenile.

The Madison County sheriff's office said Wednesday afternoon that Andrews was not present at its jail.
<snip>

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050414/area.shtml
(story is about halfway down)

[Triana]

1. How many *men* are charged with rape for having concensual

OR nonconsensual sex with 13-year old girls-an event so utterly common it doesn't even make the papers anymore? Not many. Ohh the double standards and hypocrisy.

[sendero]

3. Trust me..

.... if a 19 year old man has sex with a 13 year old girl, he WILL be charged, happens all the time.

The rule is generally that if the girl is young the boy better be within 2-3 years of ago or it is STATUTORY RAPE.

[TahitiNut]

14. The 'age gap" test only applies in some states.

:shrug:

http://www.vaw.umn.edu/documents/stateleg/stateleg.html

[StuckinKS]

85. Here in Kansas

There is an "age gap" test whimsically known as the Romeo and Juliet law. It has less harsh penalties for consensual sex between young people who are close in age.

Unless, of course, the two young lovers are of the same sex. Matthew Limon is sitting in prison in Kansas under a 17 year sentence for performing consensual oral sex on a soon-to-be fifteen year old when he himself had just turned eighteen. Both teens were residents in a home for developmentally disabled young people.

If the younger teen had been female and Limon had performed oral sex on her, he likely would have gotten probation and regardless, the most time he could serve would be 15 MONTHS!

Even in the aftermath of the Lawrence v. Texas decision which held that states could not outlaw same-sex sodomy without also outlawing all sodomy, Matthew Limon's sentence has been upheld.

It is cases like this which cause me to regret that fateful day I CHOSE to be gay. <sarcasm off>

[MollyStark]

23. Not often

Most cases go unreported. And the rule is that he better not be over the age of consent if she is under the age of consent.

[Triana]

46. It's funny...

..how many males (according to their profiles anyway) replied to this.

I do know that men convicted of rape in general are usually guilty. A few are not - rarely - and they are wrongly convicted. I know men in general are very defensive/sensitive about this but it happens so rarely that a man is wrongly convicted. More often, male rapists go free than are wrongly convicted, though.

And many many times, women don't bother to report rape because they don't want to be raped again by a court system that favors the rapist. "Oh you were dressed provocatively", or "well, what did you go to egg him on or seduce him?" They blame the victim. And and notice how that DOESN'T work when it's a woman who is the 'rapist'?

I understand the defensiveness but it is unjustified. Male pedophilia or sex with underage girls that is consensual OR non-consensual is so widely accepted by society it isn't even noticed. It happens - unreported, in families and elsewhere all the time. It seems to even be defended, widely.

Also, NON-consensual sex (rape) with women 'of age' (or older) is also accepted if not outright defended (see paragraph #1 and #2) -- when the rapist is male.

But when a women has sex (*consensual* no less) with a young boy, it's all over the news and she is convicted with the harshest of sentences.

Double standard du jour.

That's just MO and I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for saying so here but there IS a double standard both societally and legally. These laws are *not* applied equally to men and women who have committed the same crime.

Defensiveness on the part of guys standing up for a few that were wrongly convicted here and there doesn't change that fact nor does it change the statistics on the matter. Slaughter away, dig up the stats. I'm not going to do it. I shouldn't need to.

[redqueen]

48. You're SO right.

If the news covered every incident where an older male slept with an underage female, they wouldn't have time to report anything else!

No... they only have time to cover the female on male incidents.

:eyes:

[Triana]

56. Ha! Sad but true! (n/t)

[sendero]

62. That is not the issue..

... of course this happens all the time. That doesn't make it right it only makes it less newsworthy.

The issue here is novelty. And the other issue here is that sex between folks of these ages is seriously wrong and should always be prosecuted.

[redqueen]

64. How is this newsworthy? We've been bombarded with this for months.

How long before it loses its 'novelty'?

How long before we can say there's an agenda behind their airing of these stories and their IGNORING the other kind as if they don't matter / don't happen?

[sendero]

70. What agenda is that?

That I'm waiting to hear.

[redqueen]

71. Furthering the divide between the sexes.

Just like they do with stories with any racial element. Keeps people divided, distracted.

[sendero]

75. I believe in that maxim...

... that goes something like "never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity".

I don't think there is some Rovian character pulling the strings of the press, telling them every story to run.

I do believe that cable news is biased to the right. But even that has a lot to do with what Americans want to hear.

News media in this country is a business and like most businesses it seeks to maximize profit. In this case, profit is maximized by having more viewers/listeners/readers. One gets more VLRs by telling what people want to hear. Sensational stories will always win out over the more mundane. And feel-good rah-rah yay American stories will win out over any resemblance to the objective truth.

As for "dividing men and women", there are many groups more adept at that than the press. This story certainly doesn't change my view of women at all - some people do bad things, both men and women, and I'm not worried that this signals some sort of mass movement.

[redqueen]

80. You put less credence into Operation Mockingbird than I do, then.

:shrug:

[nolabels]

136. The weakness in the debate about getting the biggest audience is naive

We all know some groups are targeted by their demographics, but who pays the bills for the advertisement is key, and that is where it's starts.

Also taking in account of after being fed a steady diet of it for last 30 years or so, what do you think they would be expecting anyway?

[w4rma]

143. Partially wrong.

News media in this country is a business and like most businesses it seeks to maximize profit. In this case, profit is maximized by having more viewers/listeners/readers. One gets more VLRs by telling what people want to hear. Sensational stories will always win out over the more mundane. And feel-good rah-rah yay "American" stories will win out over any resemblance to the objective truth.

Feel good rah-rah yay "American" stories win out because:
1) news outlets are punished by their big buisness advertisers when they write things that might wake Americans up.
2) news outlets are punished by the Republican government when they write things that might wake Americans up.
3) news outlets are punished by the ultra-wealthy stock holders when they write things that might wake Americans up.
4) The major news outlets are owned by big buisnesses and/or ultra-wealthy media moguls who have an interest in not waking Americans up.

[sendero]

61. Maybe...

... so many men replied because the assertion is bullshit.

I personally know of men who have been tagged with the statutory rape charge. Please offer some evidence that men "get away" with this routinely. Other than cases where the victim refuses to cooperate with the prosecution, I'd say failure to prosecute doesn't happen often.

And more to the point, we're talking 13 freaking years old. I PROMISE YOU - show me one freaking case where a 19 year old man has sex with a 13 year old and the DA said "aw who cares".

Maybe you are the defensive one, trying to defend the indefensible, an adult having sex with a child.

[redqueen]

65. Evidence?

You said it yourself... "other cases where the victim refuses to cooperate"... females are BLAMED and PUNISHED for being victims of this kind of thing, unlike males.

[sendero]

72. I would agree..

.... that a common defense of rape is to blame the victim.

Personally, I don't think that defense works like it did in the 50s.

In any event, there are laws/rules covering what can be admitted as evidence in a trial, and a defendant has every right to face his accuser. If you think you know a better way I'd like to hear it.

[redqueen]

74. You don't think it still works?

Did you somehow manage to miss the whole Kobe Bryant fiasco? Her name released... her judgment used to blame her for the crime committed against her? Accused of looking to cash in?

The better way is to end the sexist unfairness that's so ingrained in our society. It'll take generations... but I have hope.

[sendero]

76. My personal opinion....

... was that Bryant was guilty. But nobody asked me.

Last I heard, she had filed a civil suit which IMHO does call her motivation into question.

[redqueen]

82. Not about guilt... this is about how she was treated.

And the verdict was? That's the reason for the civil suit, IMO.

[youspeakmylanguage]

146. Do you have statistics backing up any of this?

...or are you making these statements based on personal observations and opinions?

[praxiz]

4. Uhm probably quite a lot.

I would think.

[TahitiNut]

5. Yeah. Let's stamp out that nasty Y-chromosome! It's evil. Evil!

:eyes:

[Triana]

66. you're confusing anger at a legitimate issue ....

...with hatred. Have you ever been very angry at your child or someone else you love-- a friend, or someone you don't hate, at least?

Anger and hatred are not the same thing, so stop trying to paint a picture wherein they are. (ie: You're all man-haters!).

If that is the picture you have in your mind, then it is *your* picture, not mine or anyone else's. Please don't project it onto me - or anyone else. Clues on sale on eBay today 3 for $1 - get yours TODAY! :)

bytheway, according to the following, the 'Y' is possibly extinguishing itself, anyway. :evilgrin:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4225769

[redqueen]

68. That really bothers me, too. n/t

[TahitiNut]

98. Look, PEOPLE do shitty things to PEOPLE.

Is sexism one of the shitty things? You're damned right it is - nofuckingmatter who the hell engages in it! It's astonishing how a story regarding a 19-year-old (statutorily, it appears) raping a 13-year-old gets spun according to gender. Is rape another one of those shitty things? Hell yes! It's fucking wrong NO MATTER WHAT gender the people are! I don't give a rat's ass whether it's male/female, female/male, male/male, or female/female! That's irrelevant - despite the insane, sexist, homophobic black letter law and people who seem to want to make it their own, exclusive victim-hood!

Keerist! Is a keen sense of the obvious that rare an attribute in this forum?

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[frustrated_lefty]

112. *claps happily* Well said, TahitiNut. :)

[Triana]

117. exactly my point...

...and SOME people get punished (or punished more harshly for it) and OTHERS don't for some "strange" reason.

NOW:

YOU were the one who started harping on YOUR OWN VICTIMHOOD of being a poor, put-upon "Y" chromosome here victimized by all the 'man-haters'. Remember?

Pointing out the inequity of punishment for pedophilia or rape depending on whether the perpetrator is male or female is not a declaration of male hatred, Mr. Victim. It's a statement of frustration with an unfair, inequitable system.

Sorry pointing that out bothers you to the extent that you literally jumped into 'defensive' mode. The fact that it does bother you and cause you to become so defensive is a *you* problem. :)

[TahitiNut]

121. Bull-fucking-shit.

Gee... didn't you know? It's the Y-chromasome that identifies VILLAINS, not victims! I merely echoed those "sentiments."

Listen to your own post: and SOME people get punished (or punished more harshly for it) and OTHERS don't for some "strange" reason.

Yours was the very first reply to the OM ... and IMMEDIATELY spun a story about a 19-year-old PERSON raping a 13-year-old PERSON into a "but men do it all the time!" Crusade. This is a story about the sexual exploitation of a minor ... and it makes no damned difference what gender they are. None! It's child abuse.

I really get tired of all the broad-brush, shoot-anyone-handy gender-warriors crap. Any handy whipping-boy is good enough for some, I guess. Sheesh! Talk about being part of the problem and not the solution!!

:puke: :puke:

[imenja]

6. there is a double standard

but it works in favor of female sexual predators, not the other way around. 19 year old men are most certainly charged for having sex with 13 year olds. But you are correct that it rarely makes the paper. The press is somehow gotten on a kick about women sexual predators lately.

[ET Awful]

9. Quite a few.

Statutory rape charges aren't exactly rare.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Guys go to jail all the time here...

For having sex with young women under the age of consent. A lot less under the AOC than this.

We have a very...zealous...Sex Crimes Unit in the prosecutors office.So zealous that it actually scares lawyers.

[nonconformist]

19. A LOT

More often than not, it's the underage adolescent parents that call the police in these instances. And when the underage adolescent is a girl - which is far more common - the parents are more likely to take legal action. At least, according to my friend who is a social worker.

But you're right, it's cases like this that actually make the papers due to their rareness.

[entanglement]

22. Its because female rapists / pedophiles

aren't as common - hence they make the news. No hypocrisy here.

[Triana]

25. law regarding this should apply equally and it doesnt (n/t)

[MollyStark]

27. This has nothing to do with pedophilia

Pedophiles have sex with children who are undeveloped sexually. At 13 this child was probably already in puberty.

[entanglement]

36. That takes nothing away from the nature

of her crime. She raped a 13 year old, period. And your post, if I may point out, sounds like an attempt to diminish the magnitude of her crime ('already in puberty'). I'm not saying that's what you intended, it just sounds that way.

[imenja]

59. there are a great many attempts to diminish the crime of child rape

on DU and it makes me physically ill. Children do not exist on this earth for the sexual gratification of adults. And I find efforts to justify criminal assault--whether it be rape, pedophilia, or molestation--extremely disturbing.

[amazona]

86. I seriously doubt it

I would like to see some serious evidence that a 19 year old had sex with the 13 year old boy. Is there any physical evidence of this claim? I'm sorry, but boys do lie and exaggerate, and they do lie and exaggerate about older women. Thank goodness we knew this in olden times, or my sister and I and many other innocent women would be in prison. I baby-sat a 9 year old boy who sat there and told me straight to my face all the women he supposedly had sex with and he threatened me to try to get me to go along. In those days of course I just laughed. Now I hate to think of some girl being destroyed by a similar situation. Children have an active imagination, young boys don't fully understand their changing hormones or the consequences of the bragging they do about sex that never happened, and put that into a society that believes every tall tale told by someone under 16, and you have a mess.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[imenja]

108. we have no way of knowing if this particular allegation is true

but it happens. There have been a number of women convicted of sex with underage men, and they've gotten a great deal of press lately.

[The Stranger]

33. Or are female rapists incorrectly perceived to be far less common,

and now that it is being reported more frequently that perception may change?

[entanglement]

38. Sorry, I should clarify

I meant 'far less common' as in uncommon enough to make the papers, perceived by society to be uncommon (and hence newsworthy). I said nothing about the actual numbers of female rapists. It may be (as I strongly suspect) a hugely underreported problem. IMHO, these reports are still viewed as anomalies by most people, and aren't changing widely held perceptions.

[MollyStark]

24. Not often enough

[Triana]

29. I agree (n/t)

[GOPBasher]

34. ??????????

Thank God you're wrong about this. Fortunately, men always get caught when they do that, and yes, they get prosecuted.

[redqueen]

49. "Fortunately, men always get caught when they do that..."

:rofl:

:cry:

[GOPBasher]

58. Well, first off, I shouldn't have said "always."

But I thought that, usually, men would get caught commiting such disgusting crimes. I could be wrong, of course. I'm not sure how anyone could know for sure; there no stats in this sort of thing. But I thought that it's not very common (at least in this day and age) for men to do that and not get caught. I could be wrong, of course. Have you heard of cases of men doing that and not getting caught?

[redqueen]

67. Hell yes.

Quite frequently, it's a female who's been sexually abused. This is VERY common. These girls are taught from a very young age that sexual relationships are the ONLY way to relate to men whom they love (fathers, uncles, brothers) in a loving way. So, they grow up thinking that being promiscuous is the natural way for females to be.

They grow up attracting predators because of the way they carry themselves (already sexualized), the way they communicate with men, etc. So when they're in relationships with older men, while they're 11, 12, 13, 14, 15... whatever... they consider it consensual... they think they're 'in love' with these guys, or that they're going to get the love they need. So no... they don't report it. So no, the men involved aren't caught... they're never even sought.

Apologies if I'm 'going off' a bit in this thread. It's a bit of a touchy subject with me.

[GOPBasher]

69. Well I knew that it HAPPENED quite frequently, but I thought that the

guys were usually caught. Of couse I know it happens a lot. I'm not that stupid. :-)

[redqueen]

73. They're usually not.

Usually the girls are 'in love' and don't report it... and if the family finds out... well let's just say the family has its own reasons for not wanting the law looking too closely at them, so to speak.

[GOPBasher]

79. Oh.

My bad. What do I know? :shrug:

[One_Life_To_Give]

81. Boys too

For other reasons boys will not normally complain about a older woman either. Which is why the law was written. Statutory Rape is a crime even if the victim doesn't know they are a victim yet. Kids of any gender need to be protected from predators.

[redqueen]

83. I agree completely. n/t

[TahitiNut]

107. Yup. Three words: Jon Benet Ramsey.

:shrug:

[TahitiNut]

2. The poor boy is probably scarred for life.

:eyes:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. Welcome to...

The time of The War on Everything.

That said, the 19/13 age span is a bit...wide. She wasn't exactly using good judgment. I suspect that there are some serious underlying issues there. What concerns me is that it is likely that if she is convicted, those issues won't be addressed. She will just be warehoused. Big money in warehousing people in jails. $30,000/yr per head, in federal funds.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. This has been on the local news since last night...

Also pointed out that if convicted, she will have to file as a sexual preditor for the rest of her life.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. $30,000? Is That All?

I'd have guessed it to be higher than that. I think in Illinois it's something closer to $50k, but i'm not sure of that. Prisons are an ENORMOUS waste of money for non-violent offenders.
The Professor

[EFerrari]

43. In fact, prisons are a huge source of income for the invested. n/t

[NashVegas]

97. It's More Than a Bit Wide

At that age, it's the gap between messing around for fun and exploration and - what some people call "emotional baggage" - but I tend to think of as gaming rules. A 19 year old is going to be much more aware of rules than a 13 year old and have that much more control. Much more likely to try to push emotional buttons.

It's exploitational no matter how you look at it.

[eridani]

135. Could we have height and weight data as well as age?

So we don't go on mumbling bullshit about a 5'4" 120 lb 'woman' raping a 5'8" 140 lb 'boy.'

[hlthe2b]

12. I agree with you that he probably won't think he has been impacted, given

society's emphasis on the machismo of early sexual activity for males and acceptance of "the older woman," experience as a "useful" or "impressive" or"enviable" experience.

But, some males may well NOT really want it, only doing so to impress their peers, given their level of maturity at the time. That is why this is exploitation, IMO>

[imenja]

26. psychologists say boys are scarred by sexual molestation

just as girls are. They manifest it in a greater tendency to commit violent crimes.

[TahitiNut]

35. So, now it's consensual "sexual molestation"?

Fascinating. :eyes:

I find it also fascinating that the article contains the word "consensual" despite legal standards regarding "age of consent." Perhaps the journalist thought they were in Mexico where the legal age of (male/female) consent is 12. (It's probably noteworthy that children are regarded as more responsible in Mexico than in the U.S.) Obviously, Alabama is far more enlightened that the heavily-Catholic Mexico. In Alabama, the age of consent is 16 for male/female intercourse. (There is no age of consent for male/male or female/female sexual relations in Alabama, since both are illegal under Alabama law. In Mexico, it's 18. Obviously Mexico is far more backward than Alabama.)

(Brain explode yet?)

[entanglement]

39. Good point. I wonder if the

word consensual would have been used if the victim had been a 13 year old girl and the rapist a 19 year old man. There's a double-standard.

[TahitiNut]

42. The double-standard is actually codified in Alabama (see #40 below).

:shrug: "The Fart of Dicksy."

[amazona]

89. oh come on we all know what consensual means

If it happened, which I doubt, it means it was something the boy wanted.

Who here didn't have sex or at least try to get sex in their early teens? Sheesh. I am not so old as to have forgotten that we had hormones back then!

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[bobthedrummer]

101. Yes, I did but not with a 6 year age difference. I was 15 when I lost my

virginity to a 16 year old female high school attraction. Not some kinky college girl of 21. Those college girls came later.

This woman targeted him, just 13 years old, she's an adult-not a 7th grader.

Boys are influenced not to speak about experiencing sexual assaults and find difficulty in expressing it verbally when they do speak out.

Highly underreported crime imo.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

131. Not only are boys influenced to not talk about rape

they're expected to enjoy it. I mean, come on...she was a 19 year old babe, right?

Oh...unless she was unattractive. In that case it's rape and she should be sterilized. :eyes:

[imenja]

47. whether you are interested in the impact these events have on children

is entirely your problem. The fact is they are devastating, and psychological studies show as much.

I find any efforts to justify or explain away such behavior as unconscionable. The law establishes criminal boundaries for those incapable of establishing or understanding moral boundaries.

[entanglement]

145. Thank you, it is highly

disturbing to see people treat this as a 'gender' issue (which is the cause for all the explaining away, IMHO)

[xchrom]

52. you read my mind.

[hlthe2b]

7. This is so very wrong--I just don't understand women like this & Latourney

As much as I can't understand male pedophiles, this is equally baffling.

As for the kneejerk expressions of machismo towards the boy, he is NOT lucky, whether he thinks so at the time or not--he has been exploited.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

13. She's very much in the wrong, but when you deride her with the "glass

ceiling" analogy, it is very telling, imo.

[Skittles]

17. yes

it is indeed

[Bunny]

18. I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to convey in this

post.

[silvermachine]

41. Apparently a number of things...

-Ignorance
-Prejudice
-Bigotry
-Sexism

[LostinVA]

20. What do you mean by the "glass ceiling" between her ears?

Hmmm? Just trying to understand the point of your post...

[MollyStark]

31. What is your point?

[artfan]

16. Sad situation

-she must have problems there is no way a 'healthy' 19 yr old should find a 13 yo boy an acceptable canidate as a sexual partner
-he almost certainly has very mixed feelings on the subject both the whoo hoo "I got laid" response and guilt confusion etc he will need help to sort out his feelings
-as a society we have not yet determined how to handle our teenage population are they kids or adults if he had shot her he could be tried as an adult but he is a child when it comes to sex?? no wonder kids are confused.

[entanglement]

30. Sad situation but very clear

Charge her with rape and make sure she gets the longest possible sentence no matter what her 'problems' are. Obviously she is not healthy, she raped a 13 year old.

[entanglement]

21. Why not a first degree rape charge? n/t

[Patiod]

32. Dollar costs to society higher w/older man/yngr wm pairing

A huge proportion of teenaged moms are impregnated by much-older men.

(from http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/teensexualhealth/fact-teen-pregnancy.xml)

"Teenagers who have been raped or abused also experience higher rates of pregnancy — in a sample of 500 teen mothers, two-thirds had histories of sexual and physical abuse, primarily by adult men averaging age 27 (Males, 1993)."

"Among women younger than 18, the pregnancy rate among those with a partner who is six or more years older is 3.7 times as high as the rate among those whose partner is no more than two years older. Adolescent women with older partners also use contraception less frequently — one study found that 66 percent of those with a partner six or more years older had practiced contraception at last intercourse, compared with 78 percent of those with a partner within two years of their own age (Darroch et al., 1999)."

Unfortunately, according to the website, rigorous enforcement of statutory rape laws might discourage minors from seeking health care for fear that discussing their partner will lead to criminal charges

[Kagemusha]

37. Vigorous destruction of patient-doctor privilege sure.

I forget the state but one state AG is working very hard on this...

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. That would be Kansas

Phill Kline - the RW AG idiot has taken this on as a pet cause.

[redqueen]

50. Interesting...

Sad about the statutory rape laws, but not too surprising, since most of these young women probably consider themselves to be 'in love' with the men. I wonder how often that love is requited, and if so, how long it lasts after the child is born.

[TahitiNut]

40. According to Alabama statutes, women can't be charged with rape.

At least that's how I read it. Maybe someone else can find a different meaning for the word "male."

13A-6-61. Rape in the first degree

A male commits the crime of rape in the first degree if:

He engages in sexual intercourse with a female by forcible compulsion; or He engages in sexual intercourse with a female who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless or mentally incapacitated; or He, being 16 years or older, engages in sexual intercourse with a female who is less than 12 years old.

13A-6-62. Rape in the second degree

A male commits the crime of rape in the second degree if :

Being 16 years old or older, he engages in sexual intercourse with a female less than 16 and more than 12 years old; provided, however, he is at least two years older than the female.

He engages in sexual intercourse with a female who is incapable of consent by reason of being mentally defective.

http://www.ageofconsent.com/alabama.htm

[entanglement]

44. Hell yes, it seems you're right

The first crime for which there's a 'he or she' is 'sexual misconduct'.

[redqueen]

51. How strange... women can commit Sexual Misconduct but not Rape?

Well... it is Alabama we're talking about.

[TahitiNut]

53. Well, after all, they're not infected with that evil Y-chromosome.

Believe me, it's been a terrible burden to bear. Terrible. (Especially considering the design of bicycles.) :evilgrin:

(See how lucky you are?) :dunce:

[redqueen]

57. Yeah see I can appreciate sarcasm and humor as much as the next person.

But where gender issues are concerned... hearing men bitch about how put upon they are by women is like hearing caucasian people bitch about how tough they have it because of minorities.

See where I'm going here?

I know you have a point... that there is a double standard against men, too... but seriously - put it in perspective. It's not right, but it's pretty much a molehill at this point.

[TahitiNut]

60. Sad that it's seen as two separate "hills."

:shrug: Sounds like the Prisoner's Dilemma to me. But what the hell ... let's all keep playing win-lose, huh?

[redqueen]

63. That's not what I meant... all of it should be addressed.

I guess it's just that the snarky comments in this thread against women have me on edge. I apologize for venting my frustration at you.

[TahitiNut]

100. I truly appreciate it that you got my point.

As long as we play win-lose, everyone loses. When folks discard instances of such abuse because they don't quite fit their own particular jihad-du-jour in the persistent (dysfunctional) human melodrama of victim/villain/rescuer, we're never going to get together to cure ourselves. (Since I don't mix drinks, I mix metaphors.)

[redqueen]

103. Oh this I know.

Check my post 71... I'm 'nutty' enough to believe it's not unintentional.

[TahitiNut]

104. (OK, I read it.) We're sure on the same page, then!

:hi: :pals: :hug:

[redqueen]

105. YAY!

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

:hi:

[Ms. Toad]

130. With respect to bicycles...

I do long distance riding, and there are considerably more women in agony at the end of the rides I do than men. (Think riding 100 miles with all your weight sitting directly on mucous membranes...)

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

[imenja]

88. you need to do a search of indictments to determine that

A simple reading of a statue is not sufficient. Courts interpret statutes far more broadly than you are doing here now.

[redqueen]

91. Aha... thank you. I did not know that. n/t

[UncleSepp]

54. Looks like a male can't be raped either

Is male on male rape some other kind of crime there?

[TahitiNut]

55. Alabama doesn't appear to have adapted to Laurence v. Kansas, yet.

Not surprising. I doubt they've fully adapted to Brown v. Board of Education, either. (They sure didn't in the 60's when I lived there.) :shrug: They're probably awaiting the cloning of Scalia.

[TahitiNut]

90. Correction: "Lawrence v. Texas" (sorry)

(Brain fart.)

[imenja]

87. statues themselves are not the extent of any law

Legal rulings interpret a statute and expand it's reach. If you want to establish that women are not ever charged with rape in Alabama or that men are not understood as victims of sexual crimes, you need to do a search of indictments and convictions. I would be extremely surprised if that turned out to be true.

And Y chromosomes hardly suffice as an explanation of why so many more men are sexual predators than are women. That is the responsibility of sexual predators themselves.

[TahitiNut]

92. I knew I could count on someone ....

... to find a different meaning for the word "male." :crazy:

:banghead:

[imenja]

93. are you interested in knowing if women are actually indicted

Or talking about how men are so persecuted in this matriarchal society you are forced to live in?

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

102. What'd I miss?!

Please PM me... please please please?

[secretpoet]

138. So what's "deviate" sex supposed to be?

Because from what I can tell, forced "deviate sexual intercourse" doesn't equate homosexual intercourse... so does that mean that it's not rape if, according to all of the clauses above, it is not a female in the position of victim-hood?



And I like how at the top the "Cool Teen Links" link exchange advertise Online Casinos and Viagra.

[tinanator]

77. well beat this

dateline 7-22-01 Fresno Bee-

Jerry Dyer, named Wednesday as Fresno's new police chief, twice faced accusations that he had sex with an underage girl in the mid-1980s, according to police sources.

The accusations were never made public but did trigger separate investigations inside the Fresno Police Department. Neither investigation led to criminal charges against Dyer.

One police source says Dyer privately admitted when the accusation first surfaced that he had engaged in sex with the girl. A decade later, Dyer neither admitted nor denied the alleged sexual ...

its ok though, he's a born again Christian.
Nothing but the best for Fresno.

[redqueen]

84. "boys will be boys" n/t

[lcbart]

78. Rape?

Sorry - But my reation is - Where were all these 19 yr old women when I was 13?

[FiveGoodMen]

106. Finally

I know it's politically incorrect, but I'll tell you if a half-way attractive 19-year-old woman had offered to have sex with me when I was 13, I'd have been very happy about it.

[Kilroy003]

110. I agree, wholeheartedly.

I had a few hot babysitters who I could've scored with. Unfortunately my siblings were always hanging around.

[shrike]

111. Hope y'all remember this

if you're ever in a position to have a 13-year-old daughter, and she sleeps with a 19-year-old man. You'll be cheering it on, won't you?

[TahitiNut]

122. How about a 13-year-old son having sex with a 19-year-old man?

How about a 13-year-old daughter having sex with a 19-year-old woman?

This is about the sexual exploitation/abuse of minors! Has sexism gotten so embedded in our heads we see this differently based on the (irrelevant) gender of the people involved???

This thread is really sad.

[Minstrel Boy]

144. This is what I was about to post.

I'd been ignoring this thread until now, because I didn't have the stomach to bear the ignorant sniggering of the "hey, lucky kid!" variety.

I strongly suspect if the thread's title had been "Man (19) charged in rape of boy, 13," and the sex had been just as consensual, there would have been at least as many posts calling for castration.

13 is 13. I don't give a shit if the other person is 19 or 49, male or female. It's wrong, it's a crime, and it isn't funny.

[lcbart]

127. Actually I have 3 daughters

15,19 and 23 yrs old.

But I was once a 13 yr old boy. And I know that a 13 yr old boy's life is overpowered by one thing - the desire to learn about sex. If a 19 yr old like this one had been around when I was 13, I could have gotten all the heart pounding, walking around the halls with the books in front of you, afraid to dance because of your 'reaction', clumsy foolish years.

I have a hard time believing it's possible FOR A WOMAN to rape a normal, healthy 13 yr old boy (physically, that is).

(edited - added 'FOR A WOMAN')

[Jesus Saves]

115. I agree rape is an overreaction

So typical in our hysterical age, however. Both right and left wing witch hunters want to string up as many as they can however....

[youspeakmylanguage]

119. You're stating that from the perspective of an adult...

...not the perspective of a 13-yr old boy. Sure, I would have loved having sex with an older woman at that age, but how would that have affected my psyche? I don't know for sure. I do know that I had enough emotional turmoil in dealing with teenage girls my own age.

[lcbart]

128. Actually, I'm not.

I was ummm 'trained' by a 17 yr old neighbor when I was 15. And she did a darn good job. I only WISH she had started when I was 13.

[youspeakmylanguage]

139. I'm guessing you were a well-adjusted teenager...

...and I'm not nosy enough to ask about your success with relationships since then.

I wasn't a well-adjusted teenager, and I think having sex with an older woman at that age would not have improved things.

[Lilith Velkor]

94. I love it

When a woman or girl gets raped, the headline says, "sex." But if a boy has sex, he's been raped. Go figure.

:hurts:

[Kilroy003]

109. I think the kid got lucky.

Can you imagine?

I know when I was thirteen, I could have used a little 'help' from a friendly college freshman.

Is this case any worse than the thousands of 19 year old girls sleeping with 30, 40 or dare I say 50 year old men?

[confludemocrat]

113. Calling this second degree rape is like

calling a referee stops contest in boxing a "technical knockout" it's not a knockout and this wasn't rape (typically, only americans use "technical knockout" everyone else says "ref stops contest" or it was an "inside the ring win"). It is called rape to scare people and criminalize normal uncoerced sexuality that is practiced outside of conventional mores.

And those who say that a thirteen year old is scarred for life through sex he desired with a female who is also a teenager are really stretching things. And that they don't know how boys of that age think.

To term LeTourneau a sex offender and equate what she did, follow tender desires for one person, with a serial molester is absurd but it goes unquestioned in the media.

[eridani]

137. Good point. Don't you wish there was another word?

It's ethically wrong to have sex with young people below the age of consent, and it should be punished somehow. But calling it rape? No friggin' way!

[frustrated_lefty]

114. I'm conflicted on this.

At 14, I slept with my neighbor's daughter, who was 24, for a little over a year. She was kind and patient, making my introduction to my own sexuality a positive (and educational) experience. I think in this day and age it's almost a foregone conclusion that teens and even pre-teens are going to have sex. In part, I think that might best be initiated with an older, more experienced partner.

On the other hand, the reason that relationship ended was because I realized my lady-friend was emotionally damaged and needed to be in therapy and I lacked the experience and/or knowledge to help her through the issues she needed to deal with. She went into therapy, eventually married a man her age, and, last I heard, is doing quite well. So maybe there is something inherently wrong with the older woman-young boy scenario.

Personally, I'm grateful for the experience. There was a time I was slightly resentful, feeling I had been "used" as a surrogate for dealing with issues I didn't understand at the time.

As to the media's undue focus on the phenomenon, that strikes me as pandering to our (the viewer's) baser instincts. It's tittilating, a perverse fascination. Boys grow up fantasizing about such situations. Many women, in my experience, have a love-hate relationship with their own sexuality. Some, I think, get a vicarious thrill through the story, others are disgusted and angry because another woman is so blatantly less inhibited than they are themselves. And, some are just enraged because you DON'T have sex with kids.

If I wasn't clear in this, let me clarify a few points. Pedophilia is WRONG, and pedophiles should be shot. The age of consent is an arbitrary thing, a mass solution which can never satisfactorily address the individual. And, basically, I think sex is a powerful experience that shapes perception of the world and sense of self. Forget age, race, gender for a second. No matter how it is initiated, it should be a gentle, safe, pleasurable experience for the initiate. Discovering sexuality in North America these days seems like walking through a minefield.

All that said, I feel sorry for the sunuvabitch that approaches one of MY kids.

[TahitiNut]

123. As a "culture," I think we're really screwed up about sex.

I believe you "frame the experience" positively in no small part because of the bizarre inequities in our thinking about sex -- where male teens are 'patted on the back' (at least figuratively) and people go fucking ballistic if it's a female teen. I personally don't regard either reaction as reasonable or sane ... it's almost like reactionary extremism in some psychotic attempt to balance things out.

It all reeks of the myth that females are somehow the less "rewarded" by sexual relations ... that males "get a piece of ass."

Maybe I really am strange, but I've never, ever had a satisfactory sexual experience where my partner wasn't equally and wholly as motivated and participatory as I. Anything short of that just isn't worth undressing for - it ain't worth shit.

In studying abnormal psychology, one thing bothered me -- while I could detect the shadows and kinks in myself for nearly any malady (students are even warned abou this), I just couldn't for the life of me find anything that would even allow me to rape someone. I can usually find some point of empathy for just about any perversion ... except that. For example, I think I can understand why someone would murder another person. I just can't find empathy for rape or sexual assault. I don't think it has anything to do with my childhood experiences ... either remembered or suppressed. It's like there's something missing ... and I don't know whether it's really a good thing to miss it.

[frustrated_lefty]

124. Hey, I agree.

Our "culture," such as it is, does seem to be messed up on this issue in general.

My wife was gang raped as a teen. She finally said it (sex) just can't/won't be a pleasant experience for her. So, we abstain. That's raised her comfort level. It makes me wonder sometimes, though, what our culture and individual lives might be like if we were healthy....happy....I dunno, safe in our own bodies.

As to your experience with abnormal psych, I'd offer a question which may help put things in perspective. Can you feel empathy for a person sticking a firecracker up an animal's rectum? A light bulb up a feline's ass? My guess is you can't find inspiration for such an act, which, I think, suggests you're basically a decent person. W(hy)TF would anyone feel driven to do such a thing?

Timbuk3 used to have a song "Welcome to the Human Race." I'd like to think the Human Race is populated by folks who think and feel gratuitous hate and violence is....antiquated. A bizarre occurence in time, lost with a people in history. A sad reminder of what paths to avoid.

[youspeakmylanguage]

116. These topics bring out the worst in some of us here at DU...

I haven't been here at DU very long, but it seems to me that topics involving gender issues and sexual crimes bring out the worst in a lot of us. On one side there are some feminists that use these threads as an opportunity to attack the male gender and "patriarchy" in general, and there seems to be just as many (but not all) supposedly enlightened men that respond with similar stereotypical sexism. While these posters are in the minority, they turn any thread like this into a pointless battle of the sexes.

This issue is simple: We, as an enlightened society, have determined that adults (usually 18+) cannot legally have sexual intercourse with minors (usually >18, depending on the state). If an adult, by that definition, has sex with a minor, then they are guilty of statutory rape and should be punished accordingly. Gender should NOT be a factor in enforcing the law if the law is to be enforced equally and fairly. An accused rapist is an accused rapist, male or female, and is innocent until proven guilty.

[sendero]

140. You got it...

... Men and women both have pathological behaviors endemic to their gender. Women's, true to their natures, are just more subtle.

And as for your point, it makes me particularly annoyed that the same "equal rights" bunch (which I agree with BTW) think this is something other than statutory rape because the genders are reversed.

You either believe in equal treatment of genders or you don't, pick a stand and be consistent.

[BadGimp]

118. wow

I hate the sexual oppression in this country

they should have thanked her and let it go at that

[Sin]

120. What i worry about is when.

They get all these Lady's names on a list ya know were they live and what not and every horny 13-17 year old boy gets a hold of it.

[nolabels]

125. Oh NO!!!, not another thread debating about that awful word "SEX"

I see how you people are, waiting till they install new moderators and springing one like this while they are still green and new to the job.

Well I am going inform them, you can't get away with this, I tell you, there will be consequences to pay x(

[darkism]

126. I'm sure that kid is SO traumatised.

Noting the "consensual" in the story...and the fact that's he's a 13 year old male. What 13-year-old in his right mind would turn down getting some from a 19-year-old?

[nolabels]

129. Like really, could have even been the other way around even

The story could have even been bogus or a missprint, very little information there. Does not even say if they hauled the kid downtown for some kind of smear or something. Like how would they know anyway, the 13 year old male is not going to get pregnant :shrug:

:spank:............. See that's what it's all about, just the word "SEX"

[frustrated_lefty]

132. No, it is NOT just about a word.

AND, if it were about a word, the word would NOT be "sex."

It's about your kids, nothing more, nothing less.

[nolabels]

134. Oh, but not parental control?

Look, after watching our fundie neighbors just-turned-fifteen daughter just get all tied up doing all kinds of drugs, being sexually active, running away and trying to commit suicide,etc. I have have to tell you It's more than just about what ever you think it is about. The "two to tango" is more than just words. Being a parent and being someone they can trust is a delicate balance. If your not able to interact with them intellectually that void will be filled by someone else. Also if you think law enforcement are going to solve a whole lot of this you are very mistaken.

Btw, after my daughter first found out about her neighbor friend and the parents got involved we all had a big pow wow about it. My wife told the parents to get their daughter on birth control. They rejected it all and denied it was even happening till it she ran away for a couple weeks.

No one will be able to watch out for them all their life, so it's best to start figuring when a person can cut them slack and free range

[frustrated_lefty]

133. Sarcasm noted.

The answer may be no child that age would turn the opportunity down. The question is: DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT?

I don't know the answer to that question. Maybe you can enlighten us.

[sendero]

141. That isn't the point..

.... there are probably many instances of consensual sex between younger women and older guys where there is no "trauma" or any kind of ill effects involved. So what? The law is clear, and the fact is there would be no way to separate out the pathological from the natural. There is no doubt that a 19 yo man doing a 13 yo girl will sometimes lead to ill effects. Since we have no other way of protecting minors, we make a law.

[sendero]

142. We don't let ..

... youngsters make decisions about alcohol, drugs, firearms, contracts or let them vote.

I see nothing inconsistent with the idea that you have to be a certain age to have the maturity to engage in something as double-edged as sex.