Mormons Abusing Memory of Deceased Russians — Religious Council

[Ernesto]

The Russian Inter-Religious Council has descrideb as “deliberate abuse” the Mormon practice of enrolling deceased people in their organization. “Followers of the U.S. Mormon sect have for several decades been known to collect information about the deceased of all confessions and then convert them to Mormonism by means of a magic ritual they call baptizing,” he said.


http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/04/12/mormonsrussia.shtml

[BOSSHOG]

1. Another belief I don't get

Mormons defended the practice saying that the Baptism won't stick if the soul rejects it so Jews have nothing to worry about. No offense to Mormons, but I just don't get it.

[Kimber Scott]

6. It's a ritual designed to comfort for the living and be fair to the dead.

Mormons believe one must be baptized in the church in order to make it to the highest level of heaven. There are three levels, plus the abyss. There is no hell, and only really, really bad people go to the abyss - Hitler and other murderers for example. The goal of Mormonism is to live eternally with one's family together in the highest heaven. (There are names for the three levels, but I can't remember them. The lowest level isn't bad. It's supposed to be better than earth, but one would experience sadness there, if one's family were in a different heaven than oneself. In other words, they believe it's hellish to be seperated from your loved ones for all eternity.)

Early Mormons realized under the baptism doctrine their deceased relatives, i.e. grandma and grandpa, wouldn't be with them in eternity because they hadn't learned of the church and been baptized before they died. So, they baptized them after they were dead - using surrogates, of course. From this idea grew the worry that a lot of people wouldn't have the opportunity to be in the highest heaven because they had died before having the opportunity to learn of the church and enter into its sacraments. They started baptizing all the dead people they could find on record, all over the earth - again, using surrogates, of course - to make sure they had a fair chance at the highest glory.

Being a surrogate is a very sacred experience to Mormons. This gives the living a feeling of... well, "goodness."

[mitchtv]

12. Hahahahahahahahaha

where do they get these bizarre ideas?

[HereSince1628]

14. I don't understand why that strikes you as a laughable bizarre belief

It is really no stranger than belief in life after death in combination with a belief in a living God who asks believers to perform ritual acts.

Those beliefs underly the traditions and rituals of Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

I don't think they are anymore bizarre than the belief that during the eucharist bread and the wine transform into the blood and body of Jesus which is then eaten. At face value, the ritual eating of a God seems pretty unusual.

[mitchtv]

15. you are right , just as bizarre

bordering on psychosis

[Kimber Scott]

19. Lots of things are bizarre.

It's what makes life interesting. I like learning about different people and their beliefs, as opposed to laughing at them. A lot of people find comfort in the religion itself - obviously. I wonder if you laugh so heartily at Black practitioners of Voodooism? Maybe, that's not quite so PC? Maybe it is, I don't know. I sure wouldn't laugh in their face, though, you might wake up one morning with a little, tiny head! (In contrast to the one you're sporting now.) ;-)

[HereSince1628]

8. Deleted in deference to the above post--it does a good job

of explaining the underlying reasons Mormons do this.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AzDar]

4. great idea...me likee...... n/t

[woosh]

3. Then stop selling them the lists.

[peacetalksforall]

5. I believe the practice is arrogant, intrusive, and a violation of

privacy, history, and lives well lived. It is an agression against what I belive is the soul of a person.

[meti57b]

7. Christians converted Jesus to a Christian after his death, he was a Jew.

My guess is that if it's possible to "reject" the conversion after you die, then that is exactly what he did.

[oneold1-4u]

9. Just another incredifaith

They are right up there with the most radical and oldest! You go to hell if not mormon and if you are mormon, you better not be black or female!

[smirkymonkey]

10. Dum, dum, dum...dum, dum

From South Park:

"
Speaker: Hello, newcomers, and welcome. Can everybody hear me? Hello? Can everybuh-? Okay. Uh, I'm the hell director. Uh, it looks like we have about 8,615 of you newbies today, and for those of you who are a little confused, uh, you are dead, and this is hell, so, abandon all hope and uh yada yada yada. Uh, we are now going to start the orientation process, which will last about-
Man 4: Hey, wait a minute, I shouldn't be here. I wa a totally strict and devout Protestant! I thought we went to heaven!
Hell Director: Yes, well I'm afraid you were wrong.
Soldier: I was a practicing Jehovah's Witness. Hell director: Uh, you picked the wrong religion as well.
Man 5: Well, who was right? Who gets into heaven?
Hell Director: I'm afraid it was the Mormons. Yes, the Mormons were the correct answer.
Crowd: Awww."

[Selteri]

11. That was their running gag, dum dum dum dum dum dum.

They've completely trashed the mormons also, as your little picture shows you've seen as well.

[noonwitch]

13. But that episode also made the point about how nice Mormons are

Yeah, they made fun of Joseph Smith and his ideas, but the family that Stan befriended were really nice and fun people. That was sort of the point-that Mormonism was a bit strange, but it gave this kid a fun and loving family, so who cares about the little things?

I read a book about the Mormons recently that was good, but revealing. It's not a religion I would ever choose to join, but it is a free country. They always send nice-looking young men around to evangelize, and they bought a pretty old greek orthodox church in Detroit that would have possibly been abandoned otherwise. The missionaries always ride bicycles and don't kill, rape or sell crack, so in my opinion, they are welcome in my neighborhood.

[mitchtv]

16. gay haters are never welcome here

that includes so called Christians who participate in the daily trashing of gays. Very un jesuslike

[TheCentepedeShoes]

17. Mommie Dearest and I

had a minor dust-up about this several years ago. Actually most of the dust was flying from her side from her getting all defensive over my questions. She converted to Mormonism when she married her second husband back in the '70's. All fine, to each his own. Then she does this baptism thing for her father, who died in 1966. My question to her was why, since grandpa was such a good Christian who followed the teachings of Jesus so well, wouldn't God (if there is one, I'm not so convinced myself, but that was better left for another argument) have him sitting pretty in heaven all these years already? Why did God need her interference in His business? Her tack was that if my grandpa had known about Mormonism he would have converted on his own and since he hadn't gotten around to it she was doing him this big favor (which of course he had no way of knowing about). Now, grandpa was a smart guy, I'm sure he knew a lot about a lot of things and made good choices in his long life and one of those (for him at least) was to be a Southern Baptist. But I guess what bugged me was that it was a rejection of his reality. He wasn't a Mormon in life so what's the point of making him one when he has no choice about it?

[Kimber Scott]

20. What difference does it make? Really?

1. If there is a God, I doubt he/she cares if somebody's Mormon, or not.

2. Dead people are dead. You really can't hurt them.

3. It seems the more people fuss over this the more validity it has. Is there really a benefit to baptizing the dead beyond the feeling of benevolence instilled in the baptizer? (I'm sure it made your mom feel good to do that. What's wrong with that?) Making a big deal implies there is some sort of magic involved in this process that WORKS.

4. I'd rather have people proselytizing dead people, than me.

[mutus_frutex]

18. There is another discussion about this in the Non-Political Forums

Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x17117

There even is a Mormon (at least I think he/she is) defending the practice..

As I said in that thread, I find the whole thing hilarious, in a sick sort of way..