Iraq veteran guilty of refusing orders (Due due to his religious beliefs)

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5635249

DARMSTADT, Germany (Reuters) - A U.S. military court has convicted a 23-year-old Army mechanic of wilfully disobeying
orders for refusing to perform duties after a year-long tour of Iraq, an army spokesman has said.

Specialist Blake Lemoine, who returned to Germany in May 2004, said he wanted to quit the army due to religious beliefs.

The special military court sentenced Lemoine to seven months confinement, reduction in rank to private and gave him a bad
conduct discharge, said Bruce Anderson, deputy public affairs spokesman for the 3rd Corps support command.

Lemoine, who had condemned the invasion of Iraq, was charged for repeatedly refusing to obey orders from commanders
between January 10 and February 15 at a base in Darmstadt, south of Frankfurt.

more

[NNN0LHI]

1. I think Congress should call an immediate special session to debate this

Culture of life and all.

Don

[tinymontgomery]

2. Where's all the religious people

fighting for this guy and his right to stand up for his religion and his beliefs? Oh thats right he doesn't believe in killing so I guess his religious beliefs don't count.

[meganmonkey]

3. And why is this only appearing on a dozen or so websites

- about half from out of the country, and most of the others from Louisiana...Why isn't he a hero? Why isn't he on front pages everywhere for wanting to save lives and promote peace?

Well, I think he is a hero. Here's to you, Blake Lemoine! Thank you for telling the truth! :toast:

[merwin]

4. Let me get this straight, he did go to Iraq, but refused to do things that

were against his religious beliefs? How is that a bad thing?

[Catch22Dem]

5. I'm sorry, but...

"Lemoine, from Moraville, Louisiana, told a recent news conference in Germany sponsored by anti-war groups that even
though he volunteered to join the army, he had changed his mind and wanted to leave."

So did 2/3 of the guys in my Basic Training. You just don't get to make that decision AFTER enlisting. You KNOW that when you sign the papers, and no one makes you sign those papers. You do your time and get the fuck out. Personally, anyone who would join the Army after March 2002 is a goddamn morAn to begin with. I'm one atheist who doesn't buy this religious beliefs bullshit.

[meganmonkey]

6. I think it is important to appreciate the fact that he changed his mind

This country won't change for the better if we discourage people from changing their minds, and standing up for their beliefs. This guy is willing to take the punishment and I respect him for that. That takes courage. And imagine if 2/3 of the folks in basic training all changed their minds? It'd be a movement ;)

As for the 'religious beliefs' reasoning, I understand what you are saying, it's kind of full of holes. But I think that is just common language for a lot of people.

[Catch22Dem]

7. My point is, if it's that easy then I'm "changing my mind" about my Visa

And my mortgage as well. They're all contracts we've entered into willingly.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Self deleted by original poster

[Catch22Dem]

11. That's not what I said.

Self delete the rest.

[NNN0LHI]

12. I am sorry for misconstruing your post then

Please accept my sincere apologies.

Don

[Catch22Dem]

19. My intent was not to seem callous

And perhaps my analogy was in poor taste. For that I apologize.

What strikes me as odd is there's nothing in the article to indicate what order(s) he refused. Members of the armed forces have been taught what constitutes a legal order since shortly after Mai Lai. Now, what the soldier does with that training is another story.

Perhaps I can just say, if members of the Air Force had done some horrendous things while I was in, I wouldn't have wanted to leave the Air Force based on what they had done. Also, if I had been told to treat a human being like an animal, I would have known better BECAUSE I distincly remember this rather fun exercise we had in basic training regarding legal vs. illegal orders. It was hilarious, but none of us left that session with any doubts.

Now, if he's being charged with disobeying a LEGAL order, then I have a problem with it.

All I really know is I don't have enough information to formulate a true opinion on the matter.

[merwin]

8. Using that logic, we should still be under British rule.

He did sign up, with faith that they wouldn't force him to do grossly illegal activities, such as killing innocent Iraqi citizens.

You have the right and duty as a citizen and a human to speak up and protest when the government is forcing you or others to do something that is against the law.

Just because his CO tells him to do it doesn't make it any more legal. I applaud him for standing up for what he believes in.

[Dave Reynolds]

9. Did these beliefs suddenly pop up

after he enlisted? I wonder what he thought military personnel did during war?

I appreciate his not wanting to fight, but it seems like anyone joining the military should have their "beliefs" figured out prior to signing on.

[NNN0LHI]

13. I suspect he may have always held these beliefs?

But when he realized that being in the service consisted of "treating Iraqi civilians like animals", it may have became too much for him. He obviously had a conscience. Something that his Crackhead In Chief is lacking. I could see this happening to myself very easily. If I were to join the military with the idea that I was protecting my country, and later found out that it really had nothing at all with protecting my country. But actually had more to do with protecting oil pipelines for huge corporations such as Halliburton, I too very easily could have had second thoughts about the whole scam.

Don

From the article:

Lemoine had also been quoted in German newspapers as saying:

He also spoke out against U.S. army violence against Iraqis, saying: "Iraqi civilians are often treated worse than animals."

[Dave Reynolds]

14. I see your point.

It's a shitty situation. I really feel for the ones who come to their senses, but they are kind of bound to their contract. If only a large percentage would wake up to the situation, perhaps the situation would change.

[Catch22Dem]

20. Well stated

"But actually had more to do with protecting oil pipelines for huge corporations such as Halliburton, I too very easily could have had second thoughts about the whole scam"

[Dharma_Bum]

15. I think they did indeed "pop up"...

Being that this guy 'prolly joined at 17 or 18 or whatever ... who really knows what people want for themselves until their mid twenties??

I know that when I joined the military I was completely gung-ho and ready to kill some commies' ... but I changed, I educated myself, and though I kick myself for joining, I kept my mouth shut (to the limits of my morals that is) and I finished my tour ... even in f**ked up Iraq.

Tough Situation.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Good thing we don't have to make all of our important decisions...

...in life at 18 or 19 years old and then have to live with those decisions for the rest of our lives. Had that been the case for me I am afraid I would have been really screwed. Welcome to DU. Think I am hitting the sack now. Take care, and really glad to see you made it back.

Don

[Dave Reynolds]

17. My son-in-law

was a Marine for a couple of years. He won't mention much about why he was discharged other than saying that he was questioned as to whether he could fire on US citizens or be under UN command.

I agree, it is a bad situation. I imagine those guys all thought they were looking out for their country, and so few now know that it was just bullshit.

[IndianaGreen]

18. 23-years of honorable service down the tubes!

Sometimes the biggest heroes are not the ones with rows of ribbons across the chest, but those that give it all up in order to save their own humanity.

I hope a future President pardons Specialist Blake Lemoine!

[Dharma_Bum]

21. Cheers to that!

:-)