State officials may place Schiavo under protective custody

[brooklynite]

PINELLAS PARK - Rebuffed by the courts and unsuccessful in the legislature, state officials may attempt to place Terri Schiavo under protective custody so her feeding tube can be reinserted, The Herald learned this afternoon.

No timetable for a decision was clear, but events were moving at a rapid pace in the courts and in state offices today. The brain-damaged woman has been without food and water since her feeding tube was removed Friday.

...snip...

Lt. Gov. Toni Jennings and the director of the state social services agency said they were considering an intervention in the controversial and increasingly tangled case -- based on calls alleging that Schiavo is being abused in her hospice.

... snip ...

She and other state officials said the governor's office is considering using a state law that allows the state to take a vulnerable adult into immediate custody if there is a demonstrated need for protection.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11204452.htm
- - -
This is reaching the point of insanity.....

[ewagner]

1. It's beyond insanity! n/t

[katsy]

11. yep...

beyond insanity is right where the pukes exist.

[Technowitch]

2. Reaching? Friend, it passed that point YEARS ago!

(eom)

[merwin]

3. Wouldn't that be... uh... illegal? They have no justification for doing

that.

[calimary]

159. Might that be government-sanctioned KIDNAPPING? Or maybe state-

sponsored TERRORISM???????


I think this is a buzz-phrase we should start using. Apply LIBERALLY. Because that's what this has become.

[Richardo]

4. Every single official who is involved should be impeached...

...and/or held in contempt of court.

[LiberalFighter]

79. I'm sorry... but that is not enough

If they stoop to that level then the only thing that they would understand would be for security to shoot any trespassers.

They don't understand the word no. They don't care if the act illegally or immorally.

[okieinpain]

164. that's what happens when you bet all. you get desperate.

[meganmonkey]

5. God/dess forgive me

I have never really wanted someone to die before, but I pray that this woman's body gives up now...

[CottonBear]

13. Ditto that.

I rarely pray, but, yesterday I prayed for her to die as soon as possible.

[Quadrajet]

229. "I hope she lives and then 2 years down the road....

...she learns to talk and says 'kill me, please'!!!"

-My Wife

[GoddessOfGuinness]

182. I've been praying the same thing...

Let her be at peace.

[DS1]

6. They must've caught wind of my highspeed BigMac plan

DAMN THEM! /John Stewart voice

[WI_DEM]

7. So Jeb and company think they can defy the courts

hmm, maybe Al Gore should have too when the Supreme Court choose Dumbya. As I recall at that time they said the courts have spoken.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. ok this is a DIRECT attack on the judiciary

hasn't Jeb ever heard of enemies foreign and domestic? Now this is clearly an abuse of power

Now I hate to say it, but go for it Jebby... prove to the world just how little respect you have for law and order and the Constitution.

This is what this is all about, taking power away from the judiciary and it ain't working... and jebby does not get it... this is so transparent people now see it for what it is.

Oh and I am so sorry for terri Schiavo... she should be let go

[onenote]

22. this is a direct attack on Terri n/t

[lyonn]

36. Jeb may be driving the stake into the Bush bunch

At first I was so indignant that Jeb would try this again and then it hit me, what a way to show their followers how they plan to control all they desire. Most Repubs believe in less govt. and this is absolutely the govt. taking over, EVEN THE COURT SYSTEM. Wow. Apparently it has to be personal for people to see what Bush is and has been doing- - - Like a draft would also get their attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Good point him and Delay

are doing all of us a favor.

I still fear violence out of this one

[jdj]

56. yes, they have bared their asses to the entire country.

if there was ever any speculation that a brain-dead person can't serve their country, Terri Schiavo sure shot a hole in it.

amazing.

[DearAbby]

9. Hey Idiots, you see on the TeeVee these people allowing their Kids to

be arrested, dont think one can pick up a Gawd damn phone and call in a bogus Abuse Report???????

[Connie_Corleone]

10. I feel sorry for the hospice workers.

They're being made into demons for politics.

[The empressof all]

16. Not just the workers

I've been thinking of the other residents of the hospice and their family members having to contend with this circus going on outside the building.

[CoffeeCat]

21. Good point about the hospice workers...

...can you imagine how they feel inside that building?

Anyone who has met a hospice-care worker, understands that they are some of our planet's most tender and compassionate people. They are angels.

I get ticked when I hear the fundies saying that Terri has been "cut off from any care." The hospice workers are helping her to be comfortable, monitoring her situation, giving her morphine if she's in pain and helping her through her last days. They're also providing comfort to her family.

Terri is still receiving care, just like thousands of others in our country today.

[Lindacooks]

154. Boy, are you ever right about that.

Hospice workers ARE angels. That kind of work is some of the most difficult on the planet. My hats off to all hospice workers everywhere, helping us with our final journey.

[saskatoon]

186. Final Journey

Linda, what a lovely phrase you used. Thank you Grace

[xultar]

12. I can just picture them driving this whole car over a clif.

Let the effin bastards take this to the bottom of the barrel of insanity.

I think this is what it will take to get the rest of the country to see how far they've let this thing go. So, they can see by voting red they gave their rights away.

[calimary]

189. From your keyboard to God's eyes. "This is what happens when you

vote republi-CON." Or maybe - "This is what happens when you trust republi-CONS."

How 'bout "there's no such thing as a moderate republi-CON." If anyone challenges this, force them to prove it. Especially those who are in a position to make decisions on this. "Oh YEAH? Then show me how you/they are going to vote on this. Whose side are you going to take? The people's? Or your party's?"

republi-CONS = EXTREMISTS.

republi-CONS = FANATICS.

republi-CONS support State-Sponsored Terrorism. Just as Michael Schiavo.

MAKE them prove you wrong.

Sorry - may seem a little heavy-handed, but this is WAR, folks.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

14. key word is HOSPICE. People go there to die. She is being allowed

to die at a hospice--that is what they are for, asses.

[Voltaire99]

221. Exactly. Let her die, for heaven's sake.

What a repulsive spectacle watching these ghouls wrestle with a living corpse. Bastards.

[Mr.Green93]

15. The Federal Judge should

order his Federal marshals to surround the hospice and arrest any of jeboy's state goons who try to interfere with this rightful passing.

[Mistress Quickly]

19. Are federal marshalls under judicial control

or executive control?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

17. I am beginning to wonder

if the Bush boys are planning on taking what started out as a pretty innocuous issue, and using it as a back door to invoke martial law.

Jeb did say something about there not being any violence.

[eagler]

18. It's now being reported from ABC news that

a doctor is saying that she was misdiagnosed and is not in a persistent vegetative state but rather she is in a state of minimal consciousness. This would give adult protective services the right to intervene immediately.

[Cadfael]

32. a doctor who has never examined her

and who only viewed the heavily edited video tapes for the first time in the last 24 hours? where the hell's he been for the past 15 years?

[scarletlib]

86. just heard on WJNO radio in west palm beach

that this doctor spent a little less than an hour in her room observing her. didn't say how long ago this was.

this is just unbridled injustice.

[janx]

178. Wouldn't Michael have to approve such a thing?

His lawyer has said that her parents and siblings may spend as much time with her as they want, but he didn't say anything about anyone else.

Strange!

Did the Schindlers sneak the guy in there or what?

[rocktivity]

44. SHE HAS SOUP FOR BRAINS, DOCTOR SOUP-FOR-BRAINS!!!!

Has this doctor ever examined Terry? Has this doctor at least seen her brain scans? There is LIQUID where her brains used to be! Her consciousness is NOT minimal--it is NONEXISTENT and IRRETRIEVABLE! She is DEAD!!! She is an EX-TERRY!!!

:grr:
rocknation

[LiberalFighter]

84. Who is this doctor? I demand that he be examined and tested!!!

[LeftHander]

20. Federal Authorities (FBI) would have juristiction an attempt is made

By florida officials to deny Shaivo his rights and Terri her's.

Right now FLorida is walking a dangerous line in attempting this type of manuver. It will result in Ferderal law being broken and possible federal conspiracy charges being levied upon Florida officials.

RICO

Florida Police and Florida officials better be prepared to spend some time in prision for this if they make an attempt to remove Terri from the Hospice forcibly....


Are they willing to take that risk?

[brooklynite]

24. Er, who's going to order the FBI to enforce that law?

Gonzalez? Mueller?

[caligirl]

25. Thanks for commenting here, you answered my question and I

hadn't even asked it yet.

[depakid]

27. That's good analysis except

that it assumes that America is still a country of laws.

I'm not sure that asumption applies to Republicans.

[POAS]

81. We are rapidly becoming a nation of men rather

than law.

Disn't some wise founding fathers warn about this?

[caligirl]

35. Man I've had it with this, I called Boxers office and all I got was I'll

let her know how you feel.

[NYC]

39. Suppose they don't remove her from the hospice?

Suppose they surround her with federal marshalls (or whomever), bring in their own doctor, and s/he reinserts the feeding tube?

[LeftHander]

45. If they take over the room...

That would still violate the law. As yet there has not been any crime, suspision of a crime or owuld any judge allow a warrent to be issued. Protective custody requires much more than Jeb bush stepping with the cops. If he does then he has violated numerous florida and federal laws.

the feeding will not be placed back in. they have no jusristiction or standing to initiate a "protective custody" battle.

No judge is going to risk thier career to do this. No policeman are going go along with this because there is NO probable casue that crime is being commited or abuse taking place.

SMoke and mirrors.

If the GOP pushes this to the direction that they feel they can take it. they WILL lose and lose big. They will also find themselves on the other side of the law.

[calimary]

190. Maybe this is part of what they mean re- "they hate us for our freedoms."

These assholes would have Terri Schiavo held hostage while the state imposes its will upon her. JEEZ! Body-snatchers!! For REAL!!!! I wonder how far they dare push this - and if anyone besides Michael Schiavo is going to stand up to them? Maybe we need Amnesty International and the ACLU to step in? Good Lord, this is becoming surreal. Anybody else out there as outraged as we are here? Or is everybody outside of DU and other progressive activists in almost as vegetative a state as Terri Schiavo is?

What a mess. Another fine mess you've gotten us into, duhbya.

Used to be people said "what a mess" almost exclusively about the Iraqi invasion. Now there's this, too. But then again, we know our bushie. That's all he knows how to do. Make a big mess and leave it there for others to sort out and clean up.

[1monster]

192. ACLU is already involved. They have been legal advisors

for Michael Shiavo.

[NYC]

195. I have a feeling that Greer's action

of placing law enforcement at the hospice has nipped all this in the bud. It was a wise move on his part.

On the other hand, what we have is the Bush family doing as they please regardless of laws. When Jeb first ordered the feeding tube reinserted, the court proclaimed it unconstitutional. Jeb was trying to override the judicial branch of the government.

When Tom DeLay & Co. had their emergency session in Congress, they were trying to override the judicial branch.

Checks and balances mean nothing to the Bushes. As someone else said, if they don't like the law, they make their own law. If that doesn't work, they just break the law.

[Donailin]

179. O man

law professors everywhere must be in heaven. This is truly beyond the pale. Positively breathtaking that our government is this insane, but you know what? Let em be insane for all to see. Let them dig their own fucking graves here.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MattP]

28. Dr! Shopping

That doctor is a joke, he didn't even diagnose her!!, He watched the videotape yesterday!!!

[meganmonkey]

33. Interesting take on the situation

I don't think this is about Michael, I think it is about Terri...One court after another has ruled that Terri would not want to be kept alive artificially like this. That's why the tubes were removed. Not because of 'Michael's rights'.

:shrug:

[Ripley]

37. Never mind.

I wonder why someone would use a skeleton as their avatar when it's not Halloween?

[meganmonkey]

47. A skeleton?

I don't see one....?!?!

(I feel like I am missing something)

[Ripley]

51. Mods got the freep you replied to QUICK!!

He had a skeleton as his avatar, it's not there now. Weird he is still showing up yet check his profile. Never mind again, he's gone. Buh-bye!

[meganmonkey]

55. Ooops! There he goes!

Yeah, his post was still there a minute ago, no skeleton though. Weird!

I need to stay away from all these threads. They get pretty ugly!

:hi:

[janx]

68. This happens a lot in the Schiavo threads.

It happened to me earlier today. Nasty one, too.

[Megahurtz]

141. Lol!

:D I know what you mean!

[LiberalFighter]

87. That's correct... Michael is technically the guardian

Everything that Michael is doing is on behalf of Terri not for himself.

The court opinions are not for Michael but for Terri. If there was a problem with the care of Terri then the courts would either remove Michael as the guardian or give instructions as to what can be permitted for Terri's care as well as what cannot be done.

[saigon68]

223. ADIOS

Vaya Con Dios

[Lerkfish]

26. yep. martial law is being declared right before our very eyes.

florida is the demo. The full monty will be the whole country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I posted this on GD and politics but this is worst

Shiavo, fundies and civil war

Well folks we have been on a state of COLD civil war since '96. Now we have Jebby telling people, no violence 'kay? We don't want no violence here, but we will try to save her by suberting the law.

Well I have wondered what would be the modern Fort Sumter, leadng to the ahem, heating up of conditions in this civil war, and actually having some people killed over ideology. I fear the pukes have pushed us to the brink and the shiavo case may just be the trigger for something that they will not be able to cotrol.

I hope I am wrong, but watchnig fundies have their kids arrested (now there is where CPS should get involved), and the Florida Senate trying t pass more legislation to take the woman into custody... and jebbies words, we want no violence, 'kay, is starting to make me wonder... has the right wing manouvered teh country to the edge of a hot civil war?

[noonwitch]

29. In Michigan, social services can't act without a court order

Other than to offer services. To remove a child or an adult from a situation, a court order must be obtained. No lower state court is going to make a ruling on this case, knowing it has already been ruled on by state appellate courts, federal courts, federal appellate courts and that the USSC refuses to hear it. I don't know Florida law, but if it's similar to ours, Jeb doesn't have the authority to do this. It will also cost him support with people like my dad, who thinks Jeb is a good governor, but believes he has the right to make his own decisions about his life and death.

I'm sympathetic to the parents' side of this, mainly because I find the video they made of her compelling, in that she really does appear to be responding. However, the more politicians get involved and the more the allegedly pro-life people trash the husband, the more inclined I am to trust the doctors and the people who have actually seen her. I'm very glad it's not my decision to make, however.

My guess is that if no one intervenes, God will take care of it in the next couple of days.

[Tansy_Gold]

42. You do understand, I hope, that the video is a tightly edited

series of tiny snippets from a much longer tape that shows how non-responsive she is?

[warrens]

31. Good, let the state pay the bill

And explain why they won't do the same the next time someone wants the plug pulled. These people are just plain evil.

[smoogatz]

34. Unbelievable.

Meanwhile, 70% of the country looks on in horrified disbelief. Jeb must be dumber than he looks (which is saying something)--there goes his shot at a Presidential run in '08.

[JamboGuide]

40. I have 2 bumper stickers...

REPUBLICANS FOR VOLDEMORT and SAURON VOTES REPUBLICAN. They r going on my car TOMORROW. I also might ass GOP is not GOD, and NO BUSH THEOCRACY. I live in Orlando so i hope ill be safe.

[Lorien]

71. I live in Orlando too

and I saw a "Voldemort votes Republican" sticker on a car parked at the Winter Park village Borders recently; seemed no worse for wear. I have a bunch of anti-* stickers on my car (have for years) and the worst I got was a little woman in an SUV screaming at me "BURN IN HELL YOU FUCKING COWARD"! (I assume she was a "swifties" fan and objected to my Kerry sticker). :crazy:

[Marnieworld]

43. or perhaps he knows that winning votes is irrelevant

because the GOP steals elections now. Who cares what citizens think?

[1monster]

193. He's not worried! Remember, the folks who count the votes (Diebold,

Sequoia, et als) are his friends.

To paraphrase Joseph Stalin: It is not the people who cast the votes that determines the winner. It is the people who count the votes that determines the winner.

[monobrau]

38. Here's why it won't happen

Jeb knows that if another examination is ordered, the world will be watching this time and they won't be able to rig it. Then they are stuck with her in their custody, pr oven wrong, and THEY will then have to pull the tube themselves or turn her back over to hospice to do it.
No, at this point she will be dead soon and they can print her face on campaign 2008 literature.
Mission accomplished!

[Az_lefty]

41. Good Lord. The fundies are in a total feeding frenzy.

:cry:

[Walt Starr]

46. The Necrophilia of Republicans is disturbing

This is just plain sick. Ghouls, that's what they are!

[mainer]

49. Just heard a rumor -- Jeb's found a doctor says not PVS!

That's what someone just emailed me. True? Anyone heard? Brother Jeb has apparently located a physician (who hasn't even examined her) who claims Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state. I wonder if he's another "Nobel-nominated" genius?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I don't watch CNN but aparently that is the case

wtih adult protective services....

[Carni]

58. I got an ABC breaking news email to that effect

Frickin unbelievable--

[yellowcanine]

62. But is Jeb in a PVS, did the doctor attest to that?

[0007]

74. ...another wacko croaker looking for notoriety! I can smell it.. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

194. They are saying he's from the Mayo Clinic

but hasn't examined her - only saw the video. You know, the video that used Michael Moore video taping techiniques to convince the viewer she is responsive?

This just kills me. Most of these people screaming about this video proving she has a chance to recover are the same ones who screamed about Michael Moore's 'mockumentary'. The tables have turned - aha.

[Ilsa]

50. I can see them now,

knocking down and stepping over the live body of someone in hospice in a wheel chair out for a daily sunning, as they make their way over the TS's room to take her into custody. What a bad joke.

[rainbow4321]

53. Guess this is why the Dept of Children/Families...

announced yesterday that they were wanting to UNseal records related to the case. They were/are digging for something. The report said the judge probably wouldn't allow record unsealing.
Jeez...heaven help the direct caretakers/staff at that hospice, everything they write/do will be getting scrutinized.

[deadparrot]

54. How DARE they call those hospice workers abusive?

I want to scream. Sick. Sick. Sick.

[0007]

77. I'm a Hospice & Aphasia volunteer and I am screaming at the

hypocrisy of this charade, especially Senator Frist and his diagnosis.

[deadparrot]

82. Thank you for your work

It must be a very difficult job. These people are the scum of the earth for trying to insinuate ulterior motives.

[0007]

157. I've learned a lot working with the stroke victims and the dying

and the selfless service of those involved are mind boggling. Words can't describe these feelings.

[ronnykmarshall]

173. You are an angel on earth.

:loveya:

[Carni]

57. I figured they'd pull a grandstanding stunt like this

This DEFINITELY has reached the point of bizarro world material!

[Walt Starr]

59. The case has been tried. The case has been retried

The case has been re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.
The case has been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.


Is this the never ending court case or what?

[slackmaster]

60. Every court found clear and convincing evidence she would not want to live

Everybody who knew her personally agrees.

[katinmn]

63. We're in a Persistent Legislative State

[slackmaster]

65. LOL! PLS = Post o' the Day.

I have Frank Zappa lyrics stuck in my head:

Call any vegetable
and the chances are good...

...that the vegetable
will respond to you!

[katinmn]

66. :-)

[alcibiades_mystery]

156. LMFAO: Fucking perfect

Daily Show headline material, which is to say, funny as a professional comic. Perfect line.

Persistent Legislative State.

[latteromden]

69. I believe you mean

re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-tried.

(I think I got the right number of re-trials in there!)

[calimary]

191. Hey, that reminds me - remember the talking point after Selection 2000?

They counted. They counted again. They counted a third time.

All we have to do is change the verb.

They tried this case. They retried it. They retried it AGAIN. They've tried and retried it umpteen times!

HIT. THEM. BACK.

HIT. THEM. BACK. HARD.

[yellowcanine]

61. Wouldn't they need a court order to do that? There is no way a couple of

crank calls gives them probable cause. I hope that hospice has a good lawyer.

[ConcernedCanuk]

64. I've stayed away from this controversy long enough . .

.
.
.

I've read hundreds of posts - both sides

let her die - which is in a sense a falsehood because removing her feed tube is MAKING her die

as some claim - to the extent that her brain is soup - if indeed that is the case, what is the harm in keeping her alive - she is not suffering then, right?

BUT IF SHE IS CONSCIOUS - inside, unable to communicate -

screaming "DON'T KILL ME PLEASE!"

we just don't know, we may never know

life, once taken, is forever gone as we know it.

Canada abolished the death sentence decades ago,

why?

WE ARE HUMAN

WE MAKE MISTAKES.

as far as we know death is irreversible . . .

noone should consider ending the life of another human being as far as I'm concerned, without the express wish of the "participant" or at least the family . .

Government has no business in this affair unless there is a question of law involved

ah

I furgot

anything to turn the Murikkkan Masses attention away from the daily life-taking going on in the name of Democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan

It ain't murder over there,

it's "collateral damage"

(sigh)

[Massachusetts]

67. I would be P.O'd if I lived in Florida,

don't jebby and his clowns have anything else to do?:bounce:

[katinmn]

70. This case has monopolized our entire government for a week.

Time to Move On without DeLay!

[brooklynite]

72. Now that the FLA Senate has voted...

I'm worried that, with the last Court option (SC) likely to be closed out, and Jeb having postured to the cameras about taking action, he's going to feel backed into a corner, and will do something VERY rash.

[renegade000]

73. martial law!!!

eom

[Az_lefty]

75. Glad I don't live in Florida anymore.

moved away in 76'. Nice place back then, friendly people. Except for Ted Bundy, there didn't seem to be any wackos running around.

[KansDem]

76. Can state workers "mutiny?"

I know this may sound a bit beyond the pale (what isn't these days!) but could someone with logic and common sense actually wrest control of the state from Jeb and his underlings? Say, like a state official or a judge? Could the Governor be declared incompetent (similar to captains on ships) and forcibly removed from power? That might be the only way to resolve this.

[CarlWoodward]

78. Jeb Bush's "renown neurologist"

is a well-known Christian evangelical, so his "diagnosis" is certainly suspect.

A simple Google of Dr. William P. Cheshire reveals plenty of links with fundamentalist Christianity. He's written extensively against doctor-assisted suicide, saying it's against "God's will." (He's also written some bizarre poetry.)

One statement from the good doctor: "The cross of Christ marks the true vertical, and his outstretched arms the true horizontal. Christ’s life, death and resurrection are the guideposts that orient us along the slopes of life as we journey toward eternity."

A good profile of his fundamentalist-Christian based take on ethics can be found here:

http://www.tiu.edu/trinitymagazine/fall2003/cheshire.htm

[brooklynite]

85. Has anyone explained the basis for the "diagnosis"?

Is this another "let's go to the videotape" review, ala Senator First?

[Walt Starr]

80. Here's the law Jebbie Boy will have to STRETCH to make this happen

(2) EMERGENCY PROTECTIVE SERVICES INTERVENTION.--If the department has reasonable cause to believe that a vulnerable adult is suffering from abuse or neglect that presents a risk of death or serious physical injury to the vulnerable adult and that the vulnerable adult lacks the capacity to consent to emergency protective services, the department may take action under this subsection. If the vulnerable adult has the capacity to consent and refuses consent to emergency protective services, emergency protective services may not be provided.

(a) Emergency entry of premises.--If, upon arrival at the scene of the incident, consent is not obtained for access to the alleged victim for purposes of conducting a protective investigation under this subsection and the department has reason to believe that the situation presents a risk of death or serious physical injury, a representative of the department and a law enforcement officer may forcibly enter the premises. If, after obtaining access to the alleged victim, it is determined through a personal assessment of the situation that no emergency exists and there is no basis for emergency protective services intervention under this subsection, the department shall terminate the emergency entry.

(b) Emergency removal from premises.--If it appears that the vulnerable adult lacks the capacity to consent to emergency protective services and that the vulnerable adult, from the personal observations of the representative of the department and specified medical personnel or law enforcement officers, is likely to incur a risk of death or serious physical injury if such person is not immediately removed from the premises, then the representative of the department shall transport or arrange for the transportation of the vulnerable adult to an appropriate medical or protective services facility in order to provide emergency protective services. Law enforcement personnel have a duty to transport when medical transportation is not available or needed and the vulnerable adult presents a threat of injury to self or others. If the vulnerable adult's caregiver or guardian is present, the protective investigator must seek the caregiver's or guardian's consent pursuant to subsection (4) before the vulnerable adult may be removed from the premises, unless the protective investigator suspects that the vulnerable adult's caregiver or guardian has caused the abuse, neglect, or exploitation. The department shall, within 24 hours after providing or arranging for emergency removal of the vulnerable adult, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays, petition the court for an order authorizing emergency protective services.

This means that Jebbie Boy will ahve to assert Michael Shiavo or the Hospice Workers are causing abuse, neglect, or exploitation. This is a sham of the highest order!

[Az_lefty]

88. abuse, neglect, or exploitation....

this simply doesn't apply to this case. But I'm sure the worked up fundies will find a way to "stretch" it. If they do, everyone involved needs to be hauled into court. The same court(s) by the way, which have found that these conditions do not exist.

[maddezmom]

83. Judge Greer bars law enforcement from entering hospital

to place Terri Schaivo in portective custody...according to CNN.

[katinmn]

89. Did Jeb send in law enforcement or is this a preemtive order?

[yellowcanine]

165. It is a preemptive order requested by Michael's attorney.

Smart move. Jebbie is out of options unless he wants to send in his private militia.

[CoffeeCat]

171. I just heard on Fox that Jeb can appeal...

...the decision of the court--which bans him/DCF from taking custody of Terri.

I wonder if Jeb will do that?

[janx]

183. He doesn't have time. According to the lawyer types

on MSNBC, DCF has already said that they won't pay any attention to that order--that it somehow doesn't apply.

The exec and judicial branches in Florida are officially at war.

[tritsofme]

90. DCF considers removing Schiavo from hospice by force

TALLAHASSEE — State officials say they are considering removing Terri Schiavo from the hospice, by force if necessary, despite numerous court orders upholding the removal of the artificial nutrition tube that has kept her alive for 15 years.

Lucy Hadi, secretary of the Department of Children and Families, said Wednesday morning that her staff is relying on a state law that gives the department the authority to intervene on behalf of a vulnerable adult who is "suffering from abuse or neglect that presents a risk of death or serious physical injury."

Hadi said that DCF would have to file a petition in order to remove Schiavo, but "it doesn't mean that we'd have to have judicial approval in advance of taking the action if we believed it met the threshold for doing it."

But elder law and guardianship experts say such DCF is misinterpreting the law.

"My belief is that this would be a misuse of the statute," said Scott Solkoff, a Boynton Beach attorney and chairman of the elder law division of the Florida Bar. "What the state is doing is they're using yet another legal strategy that may or may not have grounds to attack what they believe to be a mistake from the judicial branch."

Solkoff said he was unsure if such an intervention would hold up in court. Under the law, the department must petition the court for an order authorizing emergency protective services for the adult within 24 hours of removing the adult, and a hearing must be held within four days of any intervention.

<SNIP>
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/news/feeds/0323schiavo.html

Seperation of powers? What's that?

[WI_DEM]

91. Can any of this be used against Jeb Bush to impeach him?

It just seems like he is disregarding the law.

[david_vincent]

92. Florida rejects Janet Reno, adopts her tactics

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. here is a discusion on LBN about this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1336328&mesg_id=1336328&page=

And yes we all knew jebbie would go there.

[Pallas180]

94. Jeb's DCF just tried to take possession of Ms Schiavo-but

Federal Judge Greer signed order and had law enforcement turn Jeb's people away.

Just reported at 5:30 PM on CNN

[Atman]

95. Court issues order forbidding removal of Schiavo by Law Enforcement

They're covering the bases, locking Jebbie & The Ghouls out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Will sound sick folks

good jebbie good... please do deepen the crisis

I guess the governoor has just thumbed his middle finger to the Judiciary...

[htuttle]

97. You've got to be kidding

But no, of course you're not.

Wow.

[jean]

98. Judge Greer is on the job and kicking butt!

[janx]

140. YES, he is. n/t

[salin]

99. Isn't Greer State Judicial

either way... this story is just taking so many twists and turns it is almost hard to follow.

[Nite Owl]

100. Judge Greer had better

stay off small planes. These fundies are nuts.

[BrklynLiberal]

104. My exact thought.... Hope he has some trustworthy bodyguards.

[Renew Deal]

112. They are already threatening judges.

I think Greer is one of them.

[deadparrot]

101. Eh, when has a little thing like the law

ever stopped a Bush?

This is getting scary.

[NYC]

102. Can Jeb be impeached for this?

Taking the law into his own hands? What are Florida's rules governing impeachment?

[Pallas180]

111. I wonder if he again tries to over-ride Fed Judge Greer if he can be arres

if he can be arrested.

This would make some Grisham novel.

Meanwhile the bushbrothes get to blame the whole thing on those "liberal judges" making their own law and not following the constitution strictly......................HA - when of course it is
them that make their own law and are attempting to scuttle the constitution and bypass the federal courts.

[The empressof all]

128. Greer's a Republican

Or at least that's what I thought I read in this ever twining web of craziness.

[oldtime dfl_er]

123. most of congress should be impeached as well

for their attempt to circumvent the law in their Special Sunday night session.


www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

[Jacobin]

103. What a clusterfuck

Amazing what a side-show these fundie perverts can put on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. The fun has just begun really

Now get worried, Randall Terry is also involved...

[CornField]

114. Randall Terry?

By the gods, that is one insane individual.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Yep

this is why this is a no win for jebbie, he does nothing Terry will go off the deep end, he does, well he is scewed...

And it is only our Constitution at stake

[kaitykaity]

105. Wonder when the first shot will be fired.

Wonder if some poor National Guard fuck will get
into a firefight with law enforcement on orders
from Jebbie and die because of this.

Here it comes folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Fort Sumter, 2005, my feelings exactly

[kaitykaity]

127. I wish I was even half kidding.

The Bushes don't think anything should be able
to stop them, and they are so power drunk that
nothing will.

[Richard Steele]

113. You may be right...

I worry about some of these fundie wingnuts trying to rush the hospice, and starting a firefight with police.

You know they're thinking about it!

[Pallas180]

122. I hope the judge is being sequestered, cause he's the one in

danger from them. His pastor kicked him out of his church...told him
he was no longer welcome...and their newsletter knocks the Judge.

He needs protection. I hope they've moved him and his family.

Poor guy

By the way, he's a republican, but named by Clinton

[rzemanfl]

131. Greer is a state court judge. You are confused. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

133. He is an ELECTED Republican

Not appointed by Clinton. And even having ruled on this case for several years, he was re-elected by a wide margin last year.

[Pallas180]

147. You might be right. Could be Judge Whittemore who is the fed

appointed by Clinton.

[Lindacooks]

162. Yes, and confirmed by the Repuke Senate.

Don't forget that.

[punpirate]

118. Odds are...

... there's not much in the way of Nat'l Guard around--thanks to Jebby's brother, most of them are in Iraq....

[rzemanfl]

107. George Greer for Governor! Why wait until '06? recall that

pandering asshole whackjob Jeb now! I have a lot of friends at DCF and feel sorry for them. They should just tell Jeb to go fuck himself and look for other work.

[necso]

108. These guys are pushing it to the limits.

And I am definitely seeing Jeb take Cheney's place.

* ain't looking none too good either.

And if the judges don't stand firm on this, the independent judicial system is toast.

[Renew Deal]

110. What???

What happened? Was there a standoff?

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. randi just played Jebby in his CNN interview earlier today

lord he is an A-hole!

[Hobarticus]

116. Link, anyone, about the DCF?

[sonicx]

120. nothing on yahoo, yet

[sonicx]

117. The judge is in danger. he needs bodyguards...

[MidwestTransplant]

121. Greer is a state judge.

The interesting thing now is that can the State act now like this? It would seem the Delay and co. in their stupidity made the federal gov't in charge here so Jeb would be violating Fed. orders.

[Pallas180]

126. No he is a Federal Judge, appointed by Clinton.

but a republican

[onenote]

129. nope, you're confusing Greer and Whittemore

Greer is the judge that presided over this case in the Florida state courts; WHittemore is the federal judge who refused to order the reinsertion of the feeding tube after Congress authorized the parents to bring a new federal court lawsuit.

onenote

[CindyDale]

145. Yeah, he wasn't appointed; we voted him in n/t

[Obviousman]

149. this is getting waaay to complicated

[Pallas180]

150. One NOte..Yes, you're right. Thanks n/t

.

[salin]

132. I thought he was the earlier judge

hence the response by his church last week to ask him to stop worshipping there based on his earlier ruling (setting in motion the desperate moves of the family - reaching through politics to the current circus). Then again - I am now so confused that it is hard to keep up.

[GOPFighter]

124. It's merely theater for the Bushies

They know they will fail, but they are pulling out all the stops to impress their Freeper and Fundie base. That base needs a martyr and Terri will be it. Terri is more useful to them dead (as a martyr) than alive. This is just going to deepen the divisions in this country (and energize the Fundie base that has been pissed that the Prez isn't pushing the gay marriage amendment harder).

When/if Terri dies, there will be an immense outpouring of grief and anger - and blame from the hard right. Things could get ugly (uglier)...

[DeepModem Mom]

125. Heard on CNN about Judge's order, but not the DCF try --

did they, in fact, try to take custody?

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. here we go

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/news/feed...

[sonicx]

136. bad link

[janx]

139. "Page Not Found"

Bad Link?

[sonicx]

144. here it is...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/gen/ap/FL_Brain_Damaged_Woman.html

[NYC]

161. New link to Palm Beach Post:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/news/feeds/0323schiavo.html

[TexasSissy]

134. What's a DCF? nt

[Rose Siding]

137. Dept of Children and Families

It's the FL social services agency.

[Mithras61]

138. Dept. of Children & Families (n/t)

(n/t)

[0007]

135. Judge Greer is an intelligent man that knows that if he turns

his back that one day this could blow up big time. I bet his opinion of Jeb just went way down, I mean down to nothing.

Now the wacko's will crucified one of their own.....this isn't over by a long shot.

[caligirl]

146. JUst spoke on the Ed Shulzt show

I got to be the second caller after Rep Colman(?) spoke to him about the futile care law. I brought up the case writeen about here:

Wife of sailor battles U.S. over abortion
Navy won't pay for procedure for woman who carried severely brain-damaged fetus

By MIKE BARBER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

When she learned that she was carrying a baby with almost no brain and no chance of survival, a devastated young Navy wife from Everett pleaded with a federal court in Seattle to force her military medical program to pay for an abortion.

"I could not imagine going through five more months of pregnancy, knowing that the baby will never survive or have any kind of life whatsoever," the woman, then 19, told a federal judge in August 2002. "I understand that even if the baby is born alive, it will probably die after it takes a few breaths. I am really terrified of the prospect of giving birth, then watching the baby die."

She won her case and had the abortion. But more than two years later, the federal government continues to fight her, trying to get the woman and her sailor husband to pay back the $3,000 the procedure cost and trying to cast in stone a ban on government-funded abortions.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/217156_janedoe23.html

[ronnykmarshall]

166. You gotta be kidding me?

Welcome to Nazi Amerikkka!

This mother fucker can't even take care of his OWN kids!

[alarcojon]

142. Please sign the MoveOn petition

if you've not already done so.

Congress must stop grandstanding on the Schiavo tragedy, and move on to the legislative business facing our country

http://www.moveonpac.org/grandstanding/

[Pallas180]

151. No I wont sign. It should be a petition to impeach, not that weak kneed

get on with legislative biz

[sonicx]

143. link to Jeb's DCF bid...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/gen/ap/FL_Brain_Damaged_Woman.html

Shortly after the state Senate defeated a bill aimed at keeping Terri Schiavo alive, a state judge issued an emergency order to keep the Department of Children & Families from taking any action that would reconnect the woman's feeding tube.

George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, asked Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer to issue the order Wednesday while the judge considers a request from DCF and Gov. Bush to take custody of Terri Schiavo.

The request from DCF and the governor cited new allegations of neglect and challenges Schiavo's diagnosis as being in a persistent vegetative state, based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state.

Gov. Bush and Department of Children & Families Secretary Lucy Hadi argued they have statutory authority to intervene on behalf of Schiavo, who has been without nourishment since Friday afternoon.

[Jersey Devil]

148. Well, it seems Felos beat Jeb to the punch

There is some language in the statute that suggests they could have grabbed her first and applied to the court for permission later but Felos sniffed it out and beat them to Judge Greer.

I have to say that Michael Schiavo's lawyers are heads above anyone on the other side.

[Pallas180]

152. It has to be costing him millions-whose paying for it? Fundies pay for

the parents...

whose paying for the husband?

[sonicx]

158. i believe it's from the malpractice lawsuit money from the 90's

[Mithras61]

160. No, that award was to Terri, not Mike...

and as I understand it, the award is being held in trust for her and is being used to pay for her medical care. Mike Schiavo's attorney denied just recently that Mike would benefit in any way from that award, and also denied that the award was being used to pay for the court case.

[Jersey Devil]

170. There were 2 awards - 1 to Terri, 1 to Mike

The spouse is often given an award in tort case like malpractice for "loss of services" of the other spouse.

I believe the net to each was $700,000 and $300,000 respectively and he has probably long used up his share on legal fees.

[atreides1]

176. There were 2 awards

$700,000 for her, which if I understand corectly was placed in a trust fund. He received $300,000 and remember that was 15 years ago, so what he got comes out to $20,000 a year.

Add in any expenses that he had in that time period, and I would guess there isn't much of his award left.

[janx]

184. Could Felos be working pro bono at this point? n/t

[Jersey Devil]

185. Could be, but I think he is probably getting some help

from some organizations sympathetic to the cause just as the Schindlers are on their side.

[CoffeeCat]

163. So does the failed DCF abduction mean that this is finally over?

Are these freaks out of options now?

Please tell me this track meet is over.

Terri deserves to be free of this suspended-animation. I hope her husband can finally be at her side, in peace--and say good-bye without worrying that the stormtroopers will appear at the gates of the hospice.

What a farce this has been.

I hope it's over.

[Jersey Devil]

172. Well, there still is Justice Kennedy &/or the Supremes

otherwise I'd say it is game, set and match

[janx]

167. Damn but there are some smart and compassionate lawyers

out there.

[HockeyMom]

169. As her guradian

can Schiavo move her OUT OF STATE? Get her to somewhere WITH NO AFFLIATION with THE BUSH BROTHERS POSSE?

[Jersey Devil]

175. That's what I said this morning - take her somewhere else

Anywhere but Florida would be better. I see no reason why he couldn't do just that as long as she was properly transported from a medical standpoint.

[atreides1]

180. He would have lots of problems

The problems he faces, if he can take her out of the state, is that he would have to find a facility that would agree to take her, and in a new state the whole court thing could start all over again.

Also, he would have to move his girlfriend and their children out of Florida as well, give up his job, his home, and still have to deal with the Xtian Taliban that would hunt him down.

[Megahurtz]

153. And it goes on and on.....

The Exploitation of Terri Schiavo by the Bush Cabal.

[cornermouse]

155. They're nuts.

They really are frightening.

[janx]

168. This whole situation is frightening. I've never seen our government

so out of control. Congress yanked this out of the state of Florida, and now the exec/judicial branches in Florida are sparring. This is very bizarre.

[Ripley]

174. Can you imagine if Jeb gets cuffed by the police?

Perp walk of the year. Would he be a martyr or a fool, writing off his political future?

[janx]

181. The fundies would love him for it. And they've been flooding

his email, fax, and phone. He might be arrogant enough, like his brother and the fundies in Congress, to believe that he can trash the Constitution. He's certainly under a lot of pressure to do so.

[Donailin]

177. fucking unbelievable what they're doing

a real circus

[Mr_Spock]

187. These psychos won't be happy until we're killing each other in the streets

It's gonna happen - mark my words...

[ronnykmarshall]

188. Holy crap! There's another woman in Orlando!

She's in a very similar situation as Terri Schiavo.

Hold on, I'm call Jeb Bush's office RIGHT NOW!!

Hello? Gov. Bush? Yes, there is a woman in Orlando that is being taken off a feeding tube JUST LIKE TERRI!! Please, please help her too!

Yes? Well she's a black woman 36 years old .....

Hello? Hello?

[CoffeeCat]

201. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

...your post was so sad, so funny--but so true.

Good post.

[GetTheRightVote]

196. The GOP sickness is reaching out for everyone, 82% of public

want them to stay out of it, what about this percent do they not understand ??

:kick:

[truthisfreedom]

197. but if they keep her alive they won't ever be able to use her as a martyr

and get the issue behind them. the thugs are anxious to put this behind them and let it go down the memory hole, only to be used with their base during campaigning.

[rodeodance]

199. "based on calls alleging that Schiavo is being abused in her hospice."

are they talking of telephone calls??

[rodeodance]

198. Gov. Bush Seeks to Take Custody of Schiavo (site alliga. of abuse)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050323/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_69

Gov. Bush Seeks to Take Custody of Schiavo

Wed Mar 23, 6:01 PM ET


By JILL BARTON, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Terri Schiavo's parents saw their options vanish one by one Wednesday as a federal appeals court refused to re-insert her feeding tube and the Florida Legislature decided not to intervene in the epic struggle. Refusing to give up, Gov. Jeb Bush sought court permission to take custody of Schiavo.


.........Gov. Jeb Bush and the state's social services agency filed a petition in state court to take custody of Schiavo and, presumably, reconnect her feeding tube. It cites new allegations of neglect and challenges Schiavo's diagnosis as being in a persistent vegetative state. The request is based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state who observed Schiavo at her bedside but did not conduct an examination of her.

The Florida Legislature also jumped back into the fray, but senators rejected a bill that would have prohibited patients like Schiavo from being denied food and water if they did not express their wishes in writing. The measure was rejected 21-18.

The Legislature stepped in before, in 2003, and Schiavo's feeding tube was reinserted. But "Terri's Law" was later struck down by the state Supreme Court as an unconstitutional attempt to interfere in the courts........

[CoffeeCat]

202. "take custody" of Schiavo?

Is he seeking to adopt her?

I don't get this.

How can a governor "take custody" of someone.

Welcome to freakazoid land.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

200. ANARCHY...Xtian-style. Welcome to the United States of Jesus Freaks.

Florida needs to snap off the mainlaid and float on down into the Gulf. Now, that I think about it, Texas can accompany Florida in it's journey.

JB

[steve2470]

203. Parents of Terri Schiavo Suffer More Setbacks in Court, Legislature

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB1MVP7O6E.html

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) - Terri Schiavo's parents saw their options vanish one by one Wednesday as a federal appeals court refused to reinsert her feeding tube and the Florida Legislature decided not to intervene in the epic struggle. Refusing to give up, Gov. Jeb Bush sought court permission to take custody of Schiavo.

The desperate flurry of activity came as President Bush suggested that Congress and the White House had done all they could to keep the severely brain-damaged woman alive.

As of Wednesday afternoon, Schiavo had gone five full days without food or water; doctors have said she could survive one to two weeks.

Supporters of Schiavo's parents grew increasingly dismayed, and 10 protesters were arrested outside her hospice for trying to bring her water.

"When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me, dying, starving to death," Mary Schindler said outside the Pinellas Park hospice. "Please, someone out there, stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live"
<snip>

[Spinzonner]

204. I think perhaps that Shrub is trying to put things

back into Pandoras box.

[hippiechick]

205. So, Mrs Schindler ...

Is it her face NOW - starving - that you see, or the younger woman whose life you apparently sought to control to the point that she likely developed the eating disorder (starving) that caused the heart failure in the first place ???

:shrug: Selfish Witch.

[jackster]

207. I never really wanted to even think about why

she had an eating disorder and how her parent's behavior towards her as a child/young adult was related to what's going on now....

but I think you are probably right.....

sad, sad, sad, sad.....

[kskiska]

215. Eating disorder

From her Guardian Ad Litem's report:

Theresa Marie Schiavo was born in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area on 3 December 1963 to Robert and Mary Schindler. She has two, younger siblings, Robert Jr., and Susan. Through the age of 18, Theresa was, according to her parents, very overweight, until she chose to lose weight with the guidance of a physician. She dropped from 250 pounds to around 150 pounds, at which time she met Michael Schiavo. They dated for many months and married in November of 1984. The Schiavo and Schindler families were close and friendly.

Theresa and Michael moved to Florida in 1986 and were followed shortly thereafter by Theresa's parents and siblings. Theresa worked for the Prudential Life Insurance Company and Michael was a restaurant manager.

About three years later, without the apparent knowledge of her parents, Theresa and Michael sought assistance in becoming pregnant through an obstetrician who specialized in fertility services. For over a year, Theresa and Michael received fertility services and counseling in order to enhance their strongly held desire to have a child. By this time, Theresa's weight had dropped even further, to 110 pounds. She was very proud of her fabulous figure and her stunning appearance, wearing bikini bathing suits for the first time and taking great pride in her improved good looks. Testimony and photographs bare witness to these facts.

http://jb-williams.com/ts-report-12-03.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

209. When this case first came to our attention

a year or so ago, I read an article about her childhood. Her mom admitted that the family teased her about being fat and that they didn't have a close relationship after Terri grew up and got married.

So I think Mom feels a bit guilty perhaps.

Hey Mom, guess what? Your daughter has NO CEREBRAL CORTEX. She has no idea you are trying to save her life. Do the decent thing and LET HER GO. It is too late to make up for any past misdeeds.

[Fridays Child]

220. Terri Schindler was a beautiful young woman at 250 pounds.

And her parents should have told her that. Society would still have sent a different message but, if her family had given her unconditional positive regard, maybe she wouldn't have stopped her heart in her quest for acceptance.

[Big Kahuna]

210. Hey!

Watch the derrogatory Witch references! x(

[hippiechick]

214. Sorry ... I have respect for all 'Good' Witches.

The ones like Mrs. Schindler aren't 'Good'.


:hi:

[VegasWolf]

218. OK! Send me to hell if you can! n/t

[Warpy]

212. There may be a component of guilt, of wishing she could have

a few wasted years back, but as a nurse, I can't make that leap.

I've seen too many devoted family members act just like that, swearing every twitch, every groan is an attempt to communicate and if they just wait a few more weeks, their family member will come back to them. I've seen this with parents, children, siblings, and spouses. Most of the time, they come around and realize that the situation is grave and it isn't going to improve; a few cling to false hope as long as the patient is breathing, with or without a mechanical assist.

What has happened to that particular family is that the false hope became a lifestyle. Everything is centered around their daughter now. Remove her from the picture, they'll be left with nothing. I imagine it's a pretty terrifying prospect for them.

However, compassion for her parents only goes so far, certainly not to force feeding a nearly dead woman who has no hope of anything but a nursing home, a dirty diaper, and food she can't taste because it's going through a tube. Even if she were as responsive as her parents seem to think she is, I can't see condemning her to more of that. She's had 15 years of it already, and that should be sufficient experience of hell for anybody.

[Lindacooks]

217. I think you've really hit on the truth.

'Saving' Terri definitely is a lifestyle for them. And I can certainly see the control freak aspect of that family, especially when they admitted they wouldn't follow her wishes even if she HAD left a specific living will.

[jdj]

222. It think they believe she will go to hell.

I think they think a DNR is the same as suicide.

I can't remember for the life of me where I read this, but it kind of makes sense.

[calimary]

213. Oh MAN - painful point you bring up. It DOES make you wonder.

And we certainly don't see any evidence of an out-of-control control freak NOW, do we? I wonder what she was like to live with, as a mom. Especially now when she's still referring to Terri as "my little girl." Terri is no "little girl."

I'm sorry even to have to go there. I'm sorry this even has to come up. But you raise quite an interesting point. As my mother-in-law might put it, in describing what parents teach their kids either actively or passively: "they don't suck this stuff out of their thumbs."

[redirish28]

206. The whole situation is a bad one, but I think...

that terri's wish not to be left in that condition should be honored.

[jean]

208. the article shouldn't say 'food and water' - it implies much greater

capacity than Mrs Schiavo has, such as the ability to swallow. She was being sustained through intubation, not food and water.

[cornermouse]

211. Actually, I feel sorry for Mrs. Schindler.

I'm sure she loves her daughter, but she really needs to realize that the daughter that she knew and loved is gone and has been gone for a long time.

[VegasWolf]

216. One Hell of an ending, the poor girl is in this position because of

over-eating, and now guess what. Let the poor girl go in peace!

[JamboGuide]

219. Filed to Supreme

They JUST filed to the Supreme Court, was on like the last 60min of NEWSNIGHT.

[Colorado Blue]

224. I'm gonna remember this if I ever get really sick and some-

body, probably a Republican, wants to cut off the Medicaid.

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH.

[Moderator]

225. kick to combine

[emad]

226. Jeb Bush may take Terri Schiavo into state care: Times

March 25, 2005

Jeb Bush may take Terri Schiavo into state care
By Jenny Booth, Times Online, and Tim Reid in Washington

The war over the fate of Terri Schiavo was entering its final stages today as her parents clung to two slim hopes of preventing their severely brain-damaged daughter from being allowed to die.

The 41-year-old has been without food or water for almost seven days, after her feeding tube was removed last Friday on the orders of a Florida state judge.

Friends and lawyers say she is showing signs of dehydration - flaky skin, dry tongue and lips, and sunken eyes. Doctors have said she would probably die within a week or two of the tube being removed.

"It's very frustrating. Every minute that goes by is a minute that Terri is being starved and dehydrated to death," said her brother, Bobby Schindler, who said seeing her was like looking at "pictures of prisoners in concentration camps".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1541708,00.html

[salin]

227. Is this new - is this the third time

I thought jeb! already declared that there was nothing more he could do? Or is this an older report on events during yesterday.

So hard to keep track.

[emad]

228. Published 4 hours ago...

??

[salin]

230. just asking because it appears to be an overseas publication

so the timing - given how this is moving so quickly - could be a bit delayed (that is - referring to yesterday afternnon's second attempt that was turned back) - or it could refer to new - but hard to tell. On this story I would probably turn to Fla media for the most up to date info; not that others are inaccurate - just hard to tell at which point in time (as the story changed from the hour yesterday) that the story refers to.

[emad]

231. Someone called on my local London Radio station phone in to say if

someone shot the husband dead then Jeb Bush could automatically get custody rights over Terri....and...and...

Must be Thought of the Day this Good Friday.......

[salin]

232. looks like our extremist fundie insanity

where to it is okay to kill in order to preserve the "culture of life" has spilled over there as well. *sigh*

[Moderator]

233. locking

updated discussion here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1339837&mesg_id=1339837