Italians fume as US delays reporter shooting probe

[bpilgrim]

AFP< WEDNESDAY, MARCH 09, 2005 08:35:53 AM >

WASHINGTON: The shooting of an Italian reporter in Baghdad will be investigated over three to four weeks by a joint US-Italian team, the US commander of multinational forces in Iraq said as Italians fumed.

"My expectation is it will be a joint investigation," General George Casey said yesterday. "These investigations normally take three to four weeks to complete."

The general said he had no information at this stage to indicate Italian officials had told US forces in advance that Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena had been released.

"I have no preliminary indication that that's true," he said.

Sgrena was wounded and Nicola Galipari, an Italian intelligence officer who had negotiated her release, was killed by US fire just after Sgrena's release on Friday.

more...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1045718.cms

they won't admit that the Italians were in communication with the us military to coordinate their arrival at the Baghdad airport with an American officer an Italian agent waiting to receive them and still no car.

but some are willing to go with their gut and presume to know just what happened.

no DU unorthodoxy allowed to comment.

MSNBC - US: ‘Absurd’ to think troops targeted Italian
... Wounded reporter suggests shooting in Iraq was deliberate ... WH spokesman on Monday said it was “absurd” for an Italian journalist to charge that US military forces targeted her...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7089948/ - 34k - Mar 7, 2005

peace

[whistle]

1. Massive cover-up by U.S. military once again

[renaissanceguy]

22. And we're supposed to "support our troops"

I'm sorry, but when I see this, I want to smack our troops. It's bad apples like these who ruin it for the rest of them.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

[whistle]

35. Support our troops, I will always do that, but their leaders and...

...individuals who commit questionable acts must be held to task and investigated openly.

[pokercat999]

39. I will support in every way possible

any troop that will lay down his arms and demand to come home now.

If you're not part of the solution you are the problem.

[0007]

42. I'll second that!

[LaPera]

2. " three to four weeks to complete." Same bullshit tactics, prelong and

wait for the story to die.

[Supersedeas]

34. and the 'Merican MSM will bury this--expect a soundbite in 5 weeks

[Bob3]

3. My Whole Problem with MSM in a nutshell is in the MSNBC Story

Ms. Sgena suggests the shooting was deliberate and the only action the Media here takes is to ask the White House if that's true. So the White House says no it isn't (And what did did expect the White House to say: "Yes we wanted to kill her and we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids"? I mean come on). That little task done, they go back to covering the Michael Jackson trial and eating nice lunches, convinced they have done their job. Isn't anybody out there trying to find out what happened? No. American reporting has become nothing but waiting for people to talk to them and then rushing it on the air. Useless bastards to a man.

[Leilani]

4. That's not true

I saw several reporters in Iraq from MSNBC/NBC, & they talked about what goes on on the ground.

Tom Aspill? is in Iraq & an excellent, experienced war correspondent, & he is outspoken. He was interviewed & took the Americans' side.

Another reporter, was interviewed for 1 hour on the Tim Russert show last weekend; he defended the troops, & said they are NOT targeting reporters. He got caught in a crossfire, & the troops stepped in front & shielded him. Can't remember his name...he's very young, but he's been in Iraq for years now.

Ya know, maybe, just maybe the guys on the ground over there know better what is going on than we do.

The White House Press corps is useless, but I think the war correspondents are well informed.

[bpilgrim]

7. how many Iraqis have the interviewed?

who've been displaced or impacted by the war?

how many pictures have you seen of the devastation?

how many discussions on the legality of the war?

how many discussions on the fact that PREVENTIVE war is always ILLEGAL.

how many reporters have you heard from on M$M who don't only go where the military tells them to go?

Americans don't got a clue whats going on over there from the M$M.

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[IndianaGreen]

9. The guys on the ground stay safely tucked away in their hotel

they never venture out into the country to see what is going on because it is so dangerous. Those reporters only report what they see, and what the see, the only thing they see, are the press releases of the military.

Foreign reporters have reported what is going on in Iraq, a country that has been turned into a free-fire zone by the US military and in which lawlessness rules.

[gandalf]

11. ..."said they are NOT targeting reporters." And you believe him.

Yeah, of course he will say this. Problem is, he is not "reality based". Al Jazeera was targeted twice, the Hotel Palestine was shot. That's the reality. They don't target embedded journalists, but everyone else is not welcome.

"he's very young, but he's been in Iraq for years now." Is he operating independently, did he watch Falludjah? Or is he embedded?

[Frederik]

14. Perhaps

some types of reporters are targetted and other are not? The reporters that have been killed are almost exclusively non-Americans. Wonder why that is? Is it perhaps because American reporters never leave Hotel Palestine without a military escort? I doubt they know a tad more about the real conditions in Iraq than we do.

The non-embedded non-American reporters who have ventured out in the field independently have repeatedly come under fire from American forces. These reporters have consistently painted a different picture of the conditions on the ground than the one presented by those who are confined to Hotel Palestine.

[GiovanniC]

17. That's Exactly Right

And here's the main problem that you have: IF the US is targeting journalists, the journalists that they are targeting are decidedly critical of America in the first place -- that's the whole reason that they are being targeted. The US doesn't have any need to target pro-US, pro-war journalists.

It's going to be the foreign journalists who have been critical of the war and Bush and the US occupation who are going to be targeted. So when they say (as this Italian journalist did) that they are in fact being targeted, Americans have a cop-out excuse to not believe them (they are "anti-US").

[jmcgowanjm]

21. Then you haven't been paying attention, Leilani

I think the war correspondents value
their jobs and lives. They know
only what Centcom wants them to know.

Michelle Malkin, who took the lead in spending thousands
of words over several weeks getting the Armanious
murders wrong is a typical example of the sort of wing nut
who only acquires knowledge from approved wing nut
sources and may admit she was wrong, sort of, but will never
get around to figuring out exactly why she was wrong,
assuming she would care to jeopardize a career in wing
nuttery to even bother thinking about
it.

http://www.mykeru.com/

BTW -the US military is being destroyed in Iraq.

www.freearabvoice.com

[Leilani]

36. I see a difference in real war correspondents

as opposed to the talking heads that go over there once in a while.

How do you know things are so screwed up in Iraq? It's the guys who do this for a living all the time, & do risk their lives to get the pics & the story, that you see every day on TV.

And I don't count stooges out of CNN Atlanta, like Jane Araff as the real deal.

Remember Vietnam? Who finally turned the story? It was David Halberstam (The Best & the Brightest) & Neil Sheen sp?) (A Bright & Shining Lie) who told the true story of what was going on.

And as to Americans having a plan to harm this woman? I don't know how many of you have been in the military, or been associated with it, but it's a big inefficent bureacrocy that screws up all the time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Italy notified US about the car, but it never got to the guys at the checkpoint. After the investigation, they will be held responsible, & maybe their CO, & the people at the top who screwed up will get off.

In the military they always need a scapegoat...look at Abu Gharib; we're prosecuting enlisted & Jr Officers, but the scandal goes right to the top, & they won't be held responsible.

Another good war correspondent in Iraq...Jim Maceda.

[jmcgowanjm]

43. "All that was needed: an unending series of victories over your own memory

Follow the news daily since the 2000 stolen election
and you begin to see a pattern.

A search for stories on the BBC Website concerning
journalists who have died in Iraq is frustrating to say the
least. After finally locating one story concerning the death of
a journalist in Iraq and selecting the ‘search for similar’
option, instead of retrieving similar stories, I got thousands
of stories that were anything but similar and eventually gave
up.

http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0313.html

The Unfortunate Incident Protocol

Here's what I've determined, from observing the same
scenario numerous times, to be an "Unfortunate
Incident Protocol" (UIP) , used by both the U.S. and
Israeli governments whenever news of our own evildoing
gets out:

7. ASAP, tell your State-influenced newspapers to allot only
one or two days to the outrageous nature of the incident.
They should then shift angles: From day three onward,
they should (1) stop writing about public reactions/protests,
or the
situation (e.g., the war or occupation) that gave rise
to
the shooting, or the nature of the system (e.g.,
rules
of engagement) that set the shooters up for an incident
such
as this one, and (2) start writing about the "bad apples" who
did the shooting, with as much juicy detail into their lurid pasts
or deranged personalities as
possible.

http://www.antiwar.com/whitehurst/?articleid=5096

9. Now it's time for the cherry on the cake: have a photo-op
with both leaders smiling, preferably in the Oval
Office, announcing that their respective nations are firmer
friends than ever. The admirable ways in which this
tragic incident was handled, with great cooperation on
both sides, only strengthens their resolve to stand by
one another in the War on Terror, no matter what the
cost.

http://www.newsdissector.org/blog/

When gas is $3/gal we'll be attacking Iran
or Venezuela or wherever.

Thousands of US Troops have died for what,
40,000 have been WIA'd for what.

Get ready for Hell, cause as long as these war criminals
are in charge, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse
ride are well seated.

What is it today? Ladies and Gentlemen, we need
somebody who knows what the hell s/he's doing,
somebody with no connection to the present hapless
political class. Theoretically, a dramatic and
remarkable turnabout is still possible, but it would take the
most amazing political transformation ever seen. Barring
that, there is not much hope except to minimize damage from
the crash of the falling behemoth. The rest of the world is
already looking on at the death throes and hoping to stay out
of the way.

http://www.swans.com/library/art10/mdolin03.html

[jmcgowanjm]

44. Who finally turned the story? Vo Nguyen Giap

When the US Mil realized that no amount of killing
would bring victory.

The reporters just cleaned up the mess.

"After the investigation, they will be held responsible."

Please. These people will be held responsible
by the Karma that they've created. The only reason I believe
in an afterlife is for the people who will be held
resonsible.

And there was no checkpoint. Sgrena knows too
much.

[xxqqqzme]

5. if this was not

co-ordinated how was an Italian aircrat allowed 2 be waiting for the arrival of the vehicle. Can just ANY country park an aircraft @ the heavily guarded airport w/o prior clearance?

I didn't think so

[LibertyorDeath]

6. how was an Italian aircrat allowed 2 be waiting for the arrival of the car

Yeah just how the fuck does that work.

[MikeS]

29. Air Traffic is Controlled from Doha

Control of Airspace and Landing Rights in IRaq is very complicated. All US-certified commercial air carriers are forbidden to fly into Iraq by Special FAR 77. Control of Airspace and landing rights is normally controlled by a nations Civil Aviation Authority. Unfortunately, most of the Iraqi control system is still being rebuilt.

That leaves all airspace control still in American military hands. The USCENTCOM airspace control in Doha, Dubai attempts to control things in the entire AOR. That includes giving permission to all US military flights, all coalition flights, and all foreign airline flights into Iraq. However, not all flight information is passed to USCENTCOM in a timely fashion and radar coverage over Iraq is still spotty in places.

An Italian government aircraft might have flown directly to Bagdad without waiting for clearance from Doha. Or it might have been sitting at Bagdad for weeks. In either case, there is no special reason for the ATC folks at Doha to pass anything to the Army command structure unless they were specifically asked to do so. If the Italians were running their own show, the Army might not have known there was an Italian aircraft on the ground because the Air Force personnel in Dubai didn't see a need to tell them. That would explain why the Italians might say they coordinated with the Americans, but the Army was clueless.

And if the Army command structure didn't know much about the operation, it's very unlikely that any 3ID elements tasked that night on the airport road knew anything in advance.

[izzie]

8. Sure is hard to believe what they tell us.

Is not It. the place that had the air force tooting around in the Alps and hit a wire and killed a lot of people and then lied about it? With half the people in this country saying Bush can do no wrong I am sure this all will be cleaned up as those people wish and the rest of us and the world will see it all as more lies. In a few months we can watch the thin lipped white man on c-span white- wash it for us all.

[MikeS]

30. That was a USMC aircraft

A Marine A-6, if I recall correctly. The crew was flying much lower than approved on the route and hit a cable car wire. They removed the cockpit video tape, which did not help their case at the resulting courtmartial.

[Zorra]

10. Good spin takes time to develop and coordinate. Don't want any nasty

little holes in the story.

[Sandpiper]

12. Italians are obviously unfamiliar with an American style Whitewash

This stuff takes time!

[reality based]

16. Plugging the holes in our explanations for shooting allies is

hard work.

[nashville_brook]

32. yeah, but they "get" the crime family angle

and their president isn't much better than ours. i wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly "loses interest" in an investigation.

[Swamp Rat]

13. They tried to assassinate her for reporting war crimes.

A deranged psycho space reptile sent in the SSB to take her out, but servile soldiers will take the blame for Dummy's war crimes... as usual. :mad:

[cthrumatrix]

15. the US way....dodge, duck and hide the acts of "aggression"

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Confirmed - Calipari had made "all the necessary contacts" with US

Gianfranco Fini said the US and Italy had different versions of what happened to Nicola Calipari, who died under US fire while escorting a freed hostage.

The US says shots were fired because the vehicle was speeding and did not heed troops' warnings for it to stop.

But Mr Fini said the car was travelling at no more than 40km per hour.

Calipari had also made "all the necessary contacts" with US and Italian officials about the hostage's release and the journey to the airport, he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4328551.stm


Calipari had arrived in Baghdad last Friday and would have had to go through security just to enter the country. He then rented a four wheel drive car at the airport in order to go pick up Sgrena. Calipari was one of Italy's most senior Intel agents.

After Calipari rescued Sgrena, they headed straight for the airport. Calipari and other agents were on their cell phones broadcasting the good news that Sgrena was safe. Don't tell me the US didn't know exactly who was in that car. This was an assassination. The only question I still have is which one was the target? If Calipari was the target, I think the implications are much more serious. Friends don't kill friends on purpose.

[TahitiNut]

19. Didn't Italian intelligence have a role in the Niger yellowcake fraud?

What might Calipari have on that, I wonder.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. That would give people another reason to be po'd at Calipari

Italy blames France for Niger uranium claim
05/09/2004

A row has broken out between France and Italy over whose intelligence service is to blame for the Niger uranium controversy, which led to Britain and America claiming wrongly that Saddam Hussein was trying to buy material for nuclear bombs.

Italian diplomats say that France was behind forged documents which at first appeared to prove that Iraq was seeking "yellow-cake" uranium in Niger - evidence used by Britain and America to promote the case for last year's Gulf war.

They say that France's intelligence services used an Italian-born middle-man to circulate a mixture of genuine and bogus documents to "trap" the two leading proponents of war with Saddam into making unsupportable claims.

They have passed to The Sunday Telegraph a photograph which they claim shows the Italian go-between, sometimes known as "Giacomo" - who cannot be identified for legal reasons - meeting a senior French intelligence officer based in Brussels. "The French hoped that the bulk of the documents would be exposed as false, since many of them obviously were," an Italian official said.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wuran05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/05/ixworld.html

[jmcgowanjm]

23. Calipari died saving Sgrena's life

Xymphora's got it exactly right.

By firing lots of rounds, but with only one shot killing anybody, it
is clear that either the Americans are terrible shots, or all
the flying ammo was simply a ruse to hide the only shot
that mattered, the one that would kill the person with
the information on what happened in the chemical
warfare attacks on Falluja. All the Americans, except for
the sniper, were shooting to miss. The sniper had her lined
up, only to be foiled by the heroic sacrifice of Nicola
Calipari. Ironic that the neocons are stymied by a combination
of altruism and duty, things they cannot possibly
comprehend

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

Mykeru's got it exactly right on the cover up.

The shooting of Giuliana Sgrena and her party is treated as
a tragic accident, except when the blame can be shifted off
the people who did the shooting, ordered the shooting or set
up the conditions for it to occur. The whole "whoops, my
bad" routine works for an isolated incident, but if people
keep getting shot in cars in Iraq for no good reason, then
by definition they can't be isolated incidents, they are, rather,
a pattern. The only reason one would want to treat
something that happens again and again as an isolated
incident is to spare one the bother of actually learning
anything from it and having to modify
behavior.

http://www.mykeru.com/

[rocktivity]

38. WHY would the car had sped through a checkpoint?

Especially if it stopped at all the others? Especially if it had only half a mile to go? What would be the driver's motive? Why WOULD the car have sped through that last checkpoint.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Catfight]

24. The US propaganda noise machine won't work with Italians that

want REAL answers and not excuses. This administration has no idea what to do about demands for accountability. They hope this goes away like Americans forget about something in two weeks time. It's not going away, in fact, it will escalate until Scotty liar McClellan has to actually make a formal apology for the mishap.

This will be Bush's FIRST recognized MISTAKE! From here...it's all going to open the floodgates.

[cliss]

31. I agree with you.

Europe is a seething cauldron right now. They're not about to forget this tomorrow.

I think the line has finally been crossed with these people. And believe me, they're scrambling right now, trying to cover their asses, sweating hard, slamming their fists into the table.

The thing that bugs me the most is, they will find 2 innocent Americans, drag them out and let them be the sacrificial offerings, like the Mayans used to do to appease their Gods.

That's what's going to happen.

[jbnow]

25. I just have a feeling

that the people who did the shooting were not after this group. This is based on nothing but my gut trying to handle the discrepancies.

Some say if they wanted her dead she would be dead. That makes sense. I know they were on the phone with Italy, so "caught", but really to complete the assassination would be no more trouble then they were already in. Maybe even less! Why would they stop?

Yet if it was just a "mistake" we are really in trouble. There'd be no excuse for shooting at a car when evidence indicates they had no reason at all to see it as a threat.

So..I can't get off the idea that the shooters were told a suicide bomber (or some terrorist danger) was the next vehicle coming, to shoot and stop them on sight. When they saw it was not the people they were expecting, they ceased shooting. That they took phones and checked things out before getting them help would make sense too, seeing if they really were who they said they were and not the terrorists they thought they were shooting at.

So I think it was an assassination plot...but the shooters weren't told the truth about who was in the car.

[jmcgowanjm]

27. If not for Calipari covering Sgrena, she would be dead

By firing lots of rounds, but with only one shot killing anybody,
it is clear that either the Americans are terrible shots, or all
the flying ammo was simply a ruse to hide the only shot
that mattered, the one that would kill the person with
the information on what happened in the chemical
warfare attacks on Falluja.

The car was disappeared.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

This attack was not an isolated incident
and you insist on treating it as such.

The whole "whoops, my bad" routine works for an
isolated incident, but if people keep getting shot in cars in
Iraq for no good reason, then by definition they can't be
isolated incidents, they are, rather, a pattern. The only
reason one would want to treat something that happens
again and again as an isolated incident is to spare one
the bother of actually learning anything from it and having
to modify behavior.

This American Administration has absolutely no credibility left
at home or abroad. With out that there is little of value left,
really. Without facts and reason all that is left is a dead
end. Nothing but chaos can function. Even if the attack on
this jounalist was an accident who would believe us
now?

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/6/114241/5457

[AValdoux]

26. Casey Briefing was a joke

The reporters asked alot of question but didn't have the nerve to write about the answers.

Casey the General in charge of COALTION FORCES denied knowing anything about italian intelligence activity in Iraq. He had no knowledge what the agents were doing or that they were even there.

He said there is no set procedure educating civilans about checkpoints, "it just happens over time". As the iraqis go through them they learn by reading the signs.

When he said he had no knowledge about the details of shooting. One reporter asked him bluntly, "As General in charge of the coalition forces you can't pickup the phone and ask what happened?" That obviously flustered the general.

I felt sorry for the guy because he was obviously unprepared for the questions but what did he think the majority of questions were going to be about.

One interesting comments he made was that February had the lowest numbers of attacks since April 2004. Is he counting attacks or deaths? civilan or miltary?

AValdoux

[jmcgowanjm]

28. Because of lowest # attacks, AbuGhurayb prison to be moved

http://cbsnewyork.com/international/Iraq-Prisons-ai/resources_news_html

right, yea, that's the ticket.

If no attacks why move?

If you can't secure an area,..., abandon it to the enemy.

Google: abu ghurayb resistance

[reality based]

33. The Sgt. Schultz gambit

"I know nothing!" Or the Watergate variant: "To the best of my knowledge I don't know." Or the Kindasleazy defense "We didn't know the specifics so we let 'em on the planes."

[Megahurtz]

37. I see that the U.S. has made

yet another friend.

(sarcasm)

[daleo]

40. If the right wing hate machine starts making bad jokes about Italians,

That will be as good as an admission of culpability by Bushco.

Maybe it has already started - I can't bring myself to look into their sites.

[texasdem99]

41. No coverup allowed

This country owes an explanation to the world.