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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:40 PM
Original message
Dems: Bankruptcy bill unfair
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Stung by two days of defeat for their bids to revise a bill overhauling the bankruptcy laws, Senate Democrats are portraying the measure as making it harder for low-income, elderly and sick people to dissolve their debts while allowing the wealthy to shelter assets.

Through a day of debate Wednesday, the Democrats maintained a rhetorical accent on what they see as the inequity of the bankruptcy legislation. The Republicans, who hold the majority, maintained tight discipline. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, warned against "killer amendments" that could jeopardize the bill's acceptance by the House.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/03/congress.bankruptcy.ap/index.html


This awful thing is about to go and there may be enough dem turncoats that it cannot even be filibustered. I have sent the following letter to Kennedy asking him to try to organize one. If anybody does not want to see this bill passed they should contact their congress people and let them know. If any of you want to borrow from my letter to send to your senators feel free:

Dear Senator Kennedy,

I apologize for being a non-constituent taking up your time but I wanted to be heard on the bankruptcy bill. I am concerned that my two republican senators maybe unresponsive and its my understanding that you have taken the lead opposing what is in my view awful legislation.

I work as a bankruptcy practitioner and below is a letter I sent my senators setting forth some of my substantive concerns about the bill. I am attaching it for any use you feel fit. The bill is bad enough, and its effects will be so sweeping, immediate, and dire for the middle class, that I believe this bill may merit a filibuster and I do not think I am overstating the matter. Please consider using this device to challenge the bill or at least to put some sunlight on it (the media has done almost nothing as to its negative consequences). Thank you for your consideration of this matter. The letter with the substantive points is as follows:

Dear Senator McCain,

I am one of your constituents and have practiced bankruptcy law for the past 12 years here in Phoenix. Before you vote to pass the bankruptcy bill could you please do two things: 1)Read this bill, and 2) Speak to at least one of Arizona's bankruptcy judges (preferably a republican one so that they have more credibility in your eyes) about the bill's merits. If you can still vote for the bill after you have read it and spoken to one of our judges then you have at least done the bare mininum diligence that this decision requires. I suspect though if you actually read the bill and speak to one of our judges about it (not necessarily in that order) you will be unable to vote for it because it is in effect an economic attack on the middle class and will render the bankruptcy courts dysfunctional. I know that may sound like hyperbole but I honestly do not think I am overstating the matter.

In my practice approximately 5% of the bankruptcy cases I see could be characterized as abusive or involving lack of personal responsibility. The balance are caused by the following in descending order: divorce, illness, injury, job layoffs, and entrepreneurial failure. Even Republican Senators during this debate have already described the bill as being "harsh" when applying it to members of the military. Just as the Senate does not think this harsh bill should apply to the military why would they want it to apply to the divorced, ill, injured, layed off and the entrepreneurs who fuel our economy, take the risks that have to be taken for growth to ever occur, and failed in this noble attempt.

I will preview two important provisions in the Bil. The Bill "means tests" the ability of people to file Chapter 7 liquidations and forces everyone except the lower middle class with one income (2 incomes will be too much), the impoverished, and the extremely wealthy to file a Chapter 13 wage earner plan bankruptcy instead of a Chapter 7 liquidation. The Bill also requires that debtor's lawyers assume liability for the accuracy of the Debtors' representations of their financial condition set forth in their bankruptcy schedules and statement of financial affairs. Chapter 13's administrative transaction costs are three to four times greater than Chapter 7's. Chapter 13's will require a monthly payment stream for 3 to 5 years whether or not there really is any disposable income from which this payment can be made. Chapter 13's do not provide a debt discharge until the conclusion of the 3 to 5 years and credit markets refuse access to these debtors prior to receipt of the discharge. In Chapter 7's the discharge order comes in approximately 4 to 5 months and credit markets (ie. car lenders) will deal with debtors (albeit at a higher rate) after the receipt of the discharge. Chapter 13's plan currently have a high failure rate (ie. most debtors default on their Chapter 13 plan payments and never get their discharge). No lawyers will represent Debtors with the new liability provisions. Without lawyers the already high Chapter 13 failure rate will skyrocket. The net effect is hundreds of thousands/millions of American middle class people (the divorced, ill, injured, layed off, and failed entrepreneurs) will no longer get discharges and no longer be able to function as productive members of the American economy. All this at time when we are likely looking at a coming housing bubble correction, interest rate spike (accelarated by government budget and trade deficts), and dollar sell off.

And for what? I understand that MBNA and other credit card issuers have contributed a great deal to Senators for the additional leverage on Debtors that this bill will give them but is that enough to vote for a bill that is harmful to the interests of the American economy and its middle class.

There are other bad things in the bill and if your office would to discuss them further feel free to correspond to arrange the same. Thank you for your time considering this matter.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Marylanders-- Please fax or call Mikulski
And let her know how shameful it would be if a MD Dem was revealed as the bought-and-paid-for servant of the financial disservices industry, rather than the supporter and defender of Maryland families.

Phone: 202-224-4654
Fax: 202-224-8858

beseechingly,
Bright
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Did that before you posted this.
Does anyone realize the impact on starting new small businesses this will have? Many Sole Proprietorships are started with CC debt.

-Hoot
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. You should cc that letter to McCain to Arizona newspapers.
.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dems and the media obfuscate on this issue
The big outrage here is not that wealthy homeowners get to keep their mansions, although that's totally unfair, it's that the credit card companies are so predatory and disclosure of the tactics they use is so hidden, that they gurantee that people will go deeper and deeper into debt no matter what they do.

Their profits are at an all-time high right now. Delinquencies are down. Bankruptcies cost them nothing because they write them off against taxes and they raise rates on consumers with less than stellar or poor credit. One late payment or even a late payment on another bill is enough that they begin jacking up the interest rates and fees so that you can't pay it off.

This does nothing to help the consumer at all and the rate of abuse for Chapter 7 filings is only 3%. This bill is a wet dream for the lenders and a nightmare for the average citizen.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. We need to reestablish usury laws.
The power to unilaterally change interest rates is abominable, and to raise them to rates exceeding 20% is beyond appalling. The predatory lenders should be strung up by the gonads for their behavior.
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doodadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have already written my Senator also
At least Boxer anyway. Feinstein is in La La Land.
I think the general public is totally unaware of the ramifications of this bill. They're not paying attention unless it's someone like me, who just had their % rate on their credit card increased from 12% to almost 30% for no reason, without warning or explanation (I'm still demanding one a month and a half later!). These banks are TOTALLY out of control, and no one seems to care.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If Feinstein would talk to a bk judge, particularly a repub one,
she would probably change her mind and oppose this thing
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. this happened to my parents.
a couple of their cards changed companies, and the new companies said they had too much debt and doubled the interest rate.

They filed base 7 and haven't looked back. I don't blame them.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Check out who voted against the Kennedy amendment
which would have preserved the bankruptcy protection for people who were bankrupted due to medical disaster: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00016

Feinstein was on the side of the angels here. Biden wimped out and sided with the heartless rethugs. Nelson of Nebraska sided with the heartless, while Nelson of Florida and Lieberman(!) both voted yea.

Clearly, some of these "Democrats" need to be thrown out of office for this stuff, and putting up with a thug for one term may be the only way to do it.
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Thaddeus Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. What in the hell is wrong with Biden???
Has he always been such a DINO?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. He represents Delaware
A lot of his constituents work for banks.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Biden is a member of the MBNA Party
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I think that a certain number of dems, mostly DLC, just sit around...
and decide which ones are going to vote with the rethugs on any given bill. I don't believe it has a damn thing to do with the bills themselves or ideology, it simply boils down to whose turn it is. There are quite a few who need to go. :mad:
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. "whose turn it is"
sure seems that way, doesn't it.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. I spoke to another Bankruptcy Judge this morning
He's also a republican. He said the bill is silly, mean-spirited, will cause bedlam in the courts and will not accomplish anything more than hugely expanded legal fees and honest but broke citizens being forced off the books to seek employment on a 'contract basis' so that their wages can't be garnished. Of course, this means that they will likely stop paying income taxes, also.

He is against it strongly.

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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. My judges almost always bend over backwards to be patient with
pro per debtors, explain things to them, and give them procedural breaks when they can. It almost always adds 10 to 15 minutes to a proceeding or more but everybody understands the circumstances and the numbers of pro pers are such that judges can take their time and do this without blowing the calendar. This bill will flood the calendar with pro per debtors in Chapter 13's and quite frankly I do not know how the judges would manage. I think some would quit and go back to practice and work on commercial cases.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I paid off a chapter 13 but my attorney and trustee screwed it up.
one of them (and I believe it was the trustee because my atty was somewhat forthright and suggested I sue her for malpractice, but she said I would probably lose).

Whomever made the mistake did not add in the interest that would have accrued during the time I was paying, so I paid it off in 1999, it got discharged or whatever, and then in 2001 I got my credit reports and the loans were still on there, for the interest. So then I paid it off, because she said I had to, and then when I got my credit report, I have twelve months of delinquent payments (12 months LATE each MONTH) on my freaking credit, over loans that for all I knew were paid off in 1999. what should have been removed from my credit this year won't actually come off according to the stark raving bitch that I talked to at trans-union, for another 7-10 years.

I almost want to say, live off goodwill and yardsales and grow food out of dirt, don't go to college if you have to take out loans, and be dirt ass poor because if you are not in either the top or bottom category you will spend your whole life getting screwed one way or the other.

(And I had never even HAD a credit card when I filed.)
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dems: ************* is unfair. Get over it.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. the bill is a horror show
just about every ammendment that the democrats have tried has been voted down. I've been watching it on cspan with my maloxx.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. HELP: need link to rejected amendments!
the cnn article doesn't mention all of the ones i'm hearing about, but i can't find them googling. anyone have a link?
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