'No link' between MMR and autism

[emad]

BBC

Scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism.

Researchers looked at the incidence of autism in a Japanese city before and after the withdrawal of the measles, mumps and rubella jab in 1993.

New Scientist reports autism rates kept rising after MMR was withdrawn.

Michael Rutter, of the Institute of Psychiatry, who worked on the study, said it "rubbished" the link between MMR and a general rise in autism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm

[Warpy]

1. You won't convince the anti vaccination freaks

even though thimerosol was introduced as a preservative decades before a sharp increase in autism started to be reported.

Vaccines have a risk versus benefit aspect. The risk is small enough that the benefit far outweighs it. This is difficult for parents to comprehend, that a 0.5% risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is a lot more acceptable than the 10% risk of death from the disease would be. It's good to see it confirmed that at least one vaccine had no connection to autism.

My guess is that they're going to find the connection when they start looking at commonly used agricultural chemicals.

[emad]

2. Brian Deer did a great Channel 4 expose on the humbuggery

that led to MMR/autism scare started by UK quack Dr Andrew Wakefield:

Snip:
Nine months before Andrew Wakefield and London's Royal Free hospital medical school unleashed a global scare over the safety of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, they filed, on June 5 1997, the first of a string of patent applications for theoretically vastly-profitable products which could only succeed if MMR's reputation was damaged. These included a purported safer measles vaccine - a rival to MMR - and purported treatments for inflammatory bowel disease and autism. All were based on claims that measles virus in MMR was at fault

A cure for autism? According to Wakefield, measles virus in MMR shots attacked the gut, which in turn led to brain damage. This theory led the Royal Free to make the astounding claim that an anti-measles treatment would reverse the problem, allowing autistic children to be treated, or even cured, by their products. The same technology was intended to produce an allegedly safer measles vaccine, presumably for parents shunning MMR.

SEE:
http://briandeer.com/wakefield-deer.htm

[emad]

3. Wakefield's quackery connected to this US nutter Prof Hugh Fudenberg

Professor Hugh Fudenberg
This grandfather of the MMR scare sells autism cures from his Spartanburg kitchen, and inspired Andrew Wakefield with his "transfer factors". (Photograph: Brian Deer)

Snip:
Hugh Fudenberg has a unique position in the MMR controversy, having claimed in the 1980s that the vaccine was linked with autism. This paper, presented at a symposium on transfer factor in Bologna in June 1995, and published in the fringe journal Biotherapy (now discontinued), asserts that 15 of 40 autistic children developed autism "within a week" of an MMR shot

Endsnip.
(See:http://briandeer.com/wakefield/biotherapy-paper.htm


Brian Deer says:
Recipie for madness:
Wakefield's claims for a safer measles vaccine, and treatments for bowel disease and autism, were not only bold, but were bizarre. The technology involved is of so-called "transfer factors", a now largely abandoned fringe conjecture based on a curious theory that special substances can be harvested from white blood cells. The Royal Free's recipe advised injecting mice with measles, extracting and processing white cells, injecting the result into pregnant goats, milking them after kid-birth and turning the product into capsules for kids. Mmmm, delicious
http://briandeer.com/wakefield-deer.htm

[emad]

4. Fudenberg:former business partner of First Earth Battalion nutter

Colonel Jim Channon:

The Goat People

Information may have come to light explaining why an American president would stare blankly, mindlessly, for several long minutes after being told passenger jets had flown into the WTC towers back in 2001. In a memorable scene from Fahrenheit 9/11, you'll remember, George W. Bush had been reading a story called "My Pet Goat" to a class of elementary school children when he got the news. Why had he chosen that particular story from a text book that had many other, non-goat stories? And why didn't he leap into presidential action?

Perhaps it was his way of springing into action, that staring. Perhaps the goat in the story reminded him that if he stared long and hard enough, he could will the planes to change course. For the WOW three-part series Crazy Rulers of the World, which begins airing November 7 at 8PM on Channel 4 in England, journalist Jon Ronson spent three years researching the history of various wacky US military training programs that are having an impact on the current Bush administration. Staring at goats with intent to kill is one of them. Walking through walls is another. Really. Forget that within weeks of 9/11 the FBI started using psychics to predict future terrorist attacks; as far back as the early '80s, the military has been involved in paranormal activities.

In Crazy Rulers' first part, "The Men Who Stare at Goats," Ronson discovers US military intelligence tactics that, until he showed up, had been closely guarded secrets. He tracks down Lt. Col. Jim Channon – a kind of hybrid of Timothy Leary and Colonel Kurtz – in his leafy hideaway. Channon's love-bead theories of war back in the hippie days of Vietnam, when he headed up the First Earth Battalion (click on official document above), included soldiers carrying baby lambs into hostile territory (who would harm Lamb Chop?) and greeting the enemy with hugs. He tells Ronson that uniforms would have had built in loudspeakers playing either indigenous or discordant, disorienting music. War without firearms.

Ronson learns firsthand the powers of the Predator, an orange plastic tool the size and shape of a small wrench that holds multiple means of instantly incapacitating a man. He learns about Project Jedi, about fasting for days, about Goat Lab (formerly Dog Lab), where the logical next step after bending silverware – staring at goats until their hearts stop – was practiced and studied. He visits with (retired) Major Stubblebine, who recalls having attempted and attempted to walk through his office walls, he and the walls both being composed of molecules, after all. It seems the theory was that an enemy, knowing the US troops were capable of such feats, would surely retreat.

http://worldofwonder.net/archives/2004/oct/05/the_goat_people.wow

[emad]

5. CRAZY RULERS OF THE WORLD: Stubblebine/Ed Dames and

US "military psychics":


Three years in the making, Jon Ronson’s Crazy Rulers of the World explores the apparent madness at the heart of US military intelligence.

With first-hand access to the leading players in the story, Jon Ronson examines the extraordinary - and plain bizarre - national secrets at the core of George W Bush's war on terror.

The three-part series begins with The Men Who Stare at Goats, which charts the history of a secret US Army unit founded in 1979 - the First Earth Battalion.

The programme uncovers the startling truth about this unit's involvement with paranormal activities that defy all known accepted military practice, including mind reading, out of body experiences and ‘thought-death’ experiments carried out on goats at Fort Bragg.

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/C/crazy_rulers/

[earth mom]

7. Freaks is pretty rude IMO. Maybe you should look into

what's in it for the drug companies to sway any and all test results-like millions and billions of dollars. This is just more of the same skewed test results to favor them. If something like this happened to your family-perhaps you would be looking at it for what it is-propaganda and lies. :mad:

[loritooker]

17. Do you mean that one in ten kids will risk dying without the vaccine?

[Stuckinthebush]

6. Great news!

While it is important to continue to study any possible link, I think this can effectively put to bed the fears of MMR vaccination.

I hope that those who are against vaccines because of these fears can begin to look for other reasons for autism - whether environmental or genetic.

[Jersey Ginny]

16. Yup, good news

It was worrysome to get the MMR shot for my kids, but I did it based on the best research I could find. Any credible research that can put parents at ease is worthwhile. It is still important to keep the dialogue open, however.

[Eurobabe]

8. I just read in a book the other day that

there is a suspected link between autism and auto-immune diseases. Perhaps this is something that is being passed on in utero to the baby from a mother harboring an undetected auto-immune disease?

How do we get auto-immune diseases? Let's see: environmental factors such as heavy metals, pesticides, viruses, bacteria. Just my opinion. More research needs to be done on auto-immune conditions as a whole.

[emad]

9. I saw something about this too, linking phthalates found in

synthetic perfumes such as those found in toiletries like bath products and the incidence of autism in babies of mothers who used these phthalate products while pregnant.

Seem to remember the story was also linked to cautions on the use of aromatherapy oils on pregnant women......

[Emillereid]

49. I read something somewhere a couple of days ago that indicated

autistic children had evidence of brain inflammation.

Also to be fair to people worried about thimerosal I read that autistic children livers appeared to more slowly remove the metal from their bodies.

[emad]

10. From The Independent:

In the The Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, the researchers say MMR "cannot have caused autism in the many children with autism spectrum disorders in Japan who were born and grew up in the era when MMR was not available."
...

Not one epidemiological study has revealed a link between the vaccine and autism. But until now, every one has focused on what happened after the triple jab was introduced.

In contrast the Japanese researchers looked at autism rates after the vaccine was replaced with single jabs. Dr Honda's team checked the records of 31,426 children born in one district of Yokohama between 1988 and 1996. The researchers counted how many children were diagnosed as autistic by the age of seven. They found that the number of cases continued to multiply after the withdrawal of MMR.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/story.jsp?story=616321

[Gyre]

11. No MMR for my kids.

This speaks of the results of one study which happens to exonerate a vaccine manufacturer. Hardly a reasonable basis to conclude that MMR is a safe product since there are other studies which imply a causal link between the product and the disease. And the disease is what I would consider catastrophic.

Why do you think the administration is pushing for legal immunity for vaccine manufacturers? Would they be bothering if there wasn't some decent evidence that a major product of theirs was defective? I doubt it.

Gyre

[emad]

12. I think that Dr Wakefield and his guru Prof Hugh Fudenberg have

cause immense damage by their totally scurrilous assertions that MMR causes autism.

If you read up the background to Wakefield's now discredited assertions you can see he was being paid to cook up this business by a bunch of UK litigants who were after £££compensation.

His clinical trials were seriously flawed and the whole rumpus has meant he has been charged with misconduct in the forthcoming General Medical Council hearing.

Meanwhile, hundreds of kids are suffering from lack of medical protection from these vile diseases.

Edit:

Telegraph says:Michael Fitzpatrick, a GP in Hackney, east London, and the author of the book MMR and autism: what parents need to know, said: "People have tried to argue that the so-called epidemic of autism is linked to MMR.

"This study shows pretty conclusively that there is no link. It is very reassuring for parents facing decisions about immunisation for their children and for those of children with autism who have been made to carry an unwarranted burden of guilt."

Scientists do not know why the disorder - marked by deficits in communication, a focus on repetitive acts and excessive attachment to certain objects - are increasing.

Some point to environmental factors; others argue that the apparent rise is the result of changing diagnostic criteria and increased awareness of the disorder.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/03/nmmr03.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/03/03/ixhome.html

[HuckleB]

50. Umm.

And the diseases that are prevented are not catastrophic? Nevermind that no link has been shown ever.

[mopinko]

13. i had thought this was all hokum

until listening to 'ring of fire' on aar the other day. those 2 guys talked about it as though it was an established fact.
thanks for the posts. i think we really need to be on the lookout for this kind of bs.

[DARE to HOPE]

14. It's the mercury, stupid!

Whether in vaccines, fish, and now we hear this week, latex paint made before 1991!--the mercury is all around us (thanks to increased loads from coal fired plants under Bush) and DOES EFFECT THE FETAL BRAIN.

The mercury in my "silver" fillings have also created havoc with my body and my teeth! How much longer are we going to let this corporate government poison us, and our children!

If you are going to vaccinate, do it on a SLOW schedule, AFTER age two, and feeding your child green vegetable juices to purge the mercury OUT.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. If mercury in fillings was responsible

you'd expect a recent decrease in autism, since the incidence of fillings has dropped since fluoride toothpaste became widespread a few decades ago.

Also, mercury has never been used in the MMR vaccine, in Britain at least. It is other vaccines that have thiomersal in them.

[gorbal]

52. Mercury is rising everywhere

That would explain the difference in populations. Here is some information on Robert Kennedy's website- http://www.waterkeeper.org/mainarticledetails.aspx?articleid=84

And I would wonder who funded those Japenese studies. You have to remember that there is usually propaganda coming from more than one direction. I trust Robert Kennedy, for the most part.

I wonder what city they studied and the exact findings of the study.

[Emillereid]

18. Autism rises despite MMR ban in Japan

  03 March 2005

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

Andy Coghlan

Parents need have no more fears about the triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella. A study of more than 30,000 children in Japan should put the final nail in the coffin of the claim that the MMR vaccine is responsible for the apparent rise in autism in recent years.


The study shows that in the city of Yokohama the number of children with autism continued to rise after the MMR vaccine was replaced with single vaccines. "The findings are resoundingly negative," says Hideo Honda of the Yokohama Rehabilitation Center.


In the UK, parents panicked and vaccination rates plummeted after gastroenterologist Andrew Wakefield claimed in a 1998 study that MMR might trigger autism, although the study was based on just 12 children and later retracted by most of its co authors.


Soon the vaccine was being blamed for the apparent rise in autism, with Wakefield citing data from California, US (see graph). In some parts of the UK, the proportion of children receiving both doses of the MMR vaccine has dropped to 60%. This has led to a rise in measles outbreaks and fears of an epidemic......

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7076

I think this finally puts that small study on MMR and autism to rest.

[medeak]

19. it's the mercury used to stabilize vaccine

Even Merck came out with warning two weeks ago.

Two medical researchers I know have been working on this for years.

this found on last moment: http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/2005/02/merck_knew_merc.html

[China_cat]

21. MMR has NEVER had mercury of any kind in it.

[medeak]

22. really?

just do a google search and it's all over...

http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/articles/02/0729126.html

[China_cat]

23. Yes, really.

MMR is a live vaccine and mercury would kill the active ingredient. It has never contained thimerisal or mercury in any form.

[medeak]

24. and we're supposed to ignore congressional hearings

and believe you with no documentation?

[rexcat]

26. The vaccine is "preserved" with an antibiotic...

neomycin, not thimerosol. You can go to the FDA or CDC web sites to confirm. May I suggest that you do a little research on the topic before you add to the discussion of topics that you no nothing about.

[China_cat]

27. Measles/mumps/rubella (MMR), chickenpox,

inactivated polio, and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have never contained thimerosal.

I DO hope the FDA itself is documentation enough for you.

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm (scroll down to the table for full info, I've only listed the ones here that have NEVER contained Thimerosal.)

Pneumococcal conjugate Never contained Thimerosal
Inactivated Poliovirus Never contained Thimerosal
Varicella (chicken pox) Never contained Thimerosal
Mumps, measles, and rubella M-M-R-II (M) Never contained Thimerosal
Hepatitis B Free 08/27/99
Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate (Hib) Never contained Thimerosal
PedvaxHIB (M) Free 08/99
HibTITER, single dose Never contained Thimerosal
Hib/Hepatitis B combination Never contained Thimerosal
Influenza, live FluMist3 (MedImmune) Free Never contained Thimerosal

[medeak]

29. opened your site...have you?

this was first thing that came up?


Thimerosal as a Preservative


Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see "Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials" and "Thimerosal Toxicity", below).

At concentrations found in vaccines, thimerosal meets the requirements for a preservative as set forth by the United States Pharmacopeia; that is, it kills the specified challenge organisms and is able to prevent the growth of the challenge fungi (U.S. Pharmacopeia 2004). Thimerosal in concentrations of 0.001% (1 part in 100,000) to 0.01% (1 part in 10,000) has been shown to be effective in clearing a broad spectrum of pathogens. A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose.

edited to say you have confidence in FDA? My husband is in study with USC as has Parkinson's from Lipitor.. was hooked up to study as his neurologist has same syndrome.

[China_cat]

30. In other words

you didn't bother to check the lists of vaccines, the amounts of Thimerasol and the ones that have NEVER had it in them at all.

Yes, some vaccines do have it. Some HAD it but no longer do. Some have 2 versions...with and without. And some vaccines have NEVER had thimerasol in them. MMR is one that has NEVER had thimerasol in it. Chickenpox vaccine has NEVER had thimerasol in it. Several other vaccines, including 2 hepatitus vaccines, have NEVER had thimerasol.

How can you blame an ingredient that has never been in the vaccine you are holding responsible for a condition that nobody knows the cause? Even to the point of ignoring the evidence that the supposed offending ingredient has NEVER been there in the first place.

[medeak]

33. you win

I don't have the energy for this.

Husband is having perfusion test as having chest pains.

leave me alone

[harpboy_ak]

36. You wanted the argument....

I don't have the energy for this.

Husband is having perfusion test as having chest pains.

leave me alone

no one forced you to make the erroneous statement that you did.

i know that you and your husband probably want to fine someone or something to blame for his parkinson's, but you need to face the truth that while the mechanism of the disease is known, what triggers that mechanism's failure has yet to be found. any "cause" touted by anyone at this time has not yet been conclusively proved to be the actual cause.

i'm sorry about his illness, but please don't start wildly attributing causes for parkinsons when the scientific community has yet to do so.

[rexcat]

34. It is my limited understanding that...

is the brain is somehow hardwired differently than people in the general population as seen on CT-scan and MRI. To me that could infer a genetic component. Physicians are getting better at diagnosing autism but it is still a difficult diagnosis and they are making the diagnosis at an earlier age for the child. Another confounding factor is autism is not one entity but many with degrees of problems associated with the syndrome. Having said that there are probably co-factors that could contribute to the problem. Trying to weed out the co-factors is a major problem today considering the level of understanding of autism.

Of special interest is a higher number of male vs. female autistics. There could be hormonal issues in-utero or other factors yet to be discovered. The science will improve and someday we will probably have a much better understanding of the problem.

What I as a major problem is the emotional aspect of autism as noted on this thread. There are many people who don't have a really good understanding of the scientific process reading literature about this topic and go off half cocked.

If there is an autistic child in the household it is very difficult for all the family members. I have a friend who has a child who is severely autistic and it is extremely difficult on everyone in the household. It is a very sad situation but they are managing the situation.

[China_cat]

35. I hope that some day there is a breakthrough

in this area because people who have a child with any chronic condition are desparate to blame it on somebody/anybody/something/anything and that makes them ripe for every quack in the book.

The fact that several other conditions, such as aspergers and PDD (I think that's the one anyway) are now lumped in the autism diagnosis accounts for quite a bit of the rise in the 'incidence' of the condition, along with better and earlier recognition.

But I'm never going to be able to get my head around blaming an ingredient that was never there in a vaccine that was never given being the cause of an escalation of the condition. (Re: the Japanese study in the original post)

[mordarlar]

39. How do you feel about the anthrax vaccine?My brother gets Grand Mol Seiz..

since receiving it. Do you think it is possible this vaccine is actually causing these side affects that people are seeing?

[AngryAmish]

40. I got grand mal siezures after "Schindler's List" came out

Thankfully rare (less than 1 per year). However, that does not prove that Schindler's List caused my siezures. I was not innoculated against antrax. Sometimes these things just come on with no explaination. The brain is a mysterious item.

[mordarlar]

41. Well he occasionally gets 2 a day. What is the purpose of your post?

to suggest i should not ask a question about a chemical that is POTENTIALLY linked to massive problems for MANY people?

In his case he had no preexisting. Immediately after the vaccine he was found unconscience several times over a six month period. He has had several brain scans by the US military and they found NO CAUSE. Since, they have taken a stronger form and they are happening more frequently. Often several times a month. Some, like i said, happening more than once a day. He is 22. He has lost two jobs as a result and is in SEVERE debt as a result of the medical expenses.

I think it is a valid question.

[AngryAmish]

42. The purpose of my post

To point out that there is a common fallacy about correllation v. causation.

[mordarlar]

43. Cancer may happen with no conclusive cause but this does not mean smoking

is not a legitimate carcinogen.

Yes i am sure seizures may happen with no cause. But i am sure in some instances the cause can be determined. I would like to know if this is the case with my brother.

[blue neen]

51. You do have a valid question.

The fact that your brother did not experience seizures until he had the vaccine DOES make you wonder about the correlation.

Brain scans do not always show the cause of, or existence of, seizures. This can be very frustrating when someone is trying so hard to get to the bottom of the problem.

It sounds like your brother has a strong support system in your family. I hope that he will be able to find the proper medication to control his seizures.

Good luck.

[China_cat]

44. Anthrax vaccine in an adult

and mmr in a child are apples and oranges.

Studies have not been done on the anthrax vaccine as they have on the others. I'll wait until they have.

[mordarlar]

46. Isn't it irresponsible to administer these to servicemen when they are...

untested? I am not being argumentative. I asked because you sounded knowledgeable on the subject. My family finds itself in a very frustrating position.

[China_cat]

47. Yes, I do.

Even more so when it's been proven that those in Iraq are safer from anthrax than those in THIS country. And starting up smallpox vaccinations again is criminal imo.

[HuckleB]

25. Either way, there seems to be no apparent connection.

Autism and MMR Vaccine or Mercury Based Preservative in Vaccines No Link Says US Health Panel:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=8551

[HuckleB]

20. Thanks for sharing this. It's very necessary research.

I just hope the conversation that follows is fruitful, kind and gentle. I have long been suspicious of the MMR claim, as a history of people with Autism Spectrum symptoms shows that the form of Autism where the child appears to develop normally prior to the onset of symptoms existed prior to the introduction of MMR. Still, caution in coming to conclusions is always the wise road, IMHO.

[Sparky McGruff]

28. "Conventional wisdom"

What I've heard talking with quite a few physicians who specialize in autism is that early symptoms are present, but are very hard to diagnose. They state that the caregivers of infants who are later diagnosed with autism say that their children were docile, sleep well, etc. About the same time that normal infants start developing social skills (3-6 months), the autistic children start developing symptoms that are disturbing. It's not so much that they miss milestones (as is the case for mental retardation), but they develop abnormal social behavior.

Again, this isn't peer-reviewed science; but this is "conventional wisdom" among some very well educated and experienced physicians. It's not exactly my field, so I can't really say too very much about it either way.

[Guaranteed]

31. That sounds right to me.

Just MHO, though.

I think autism is pretty genetic. I don't think it's caused by environmental factors. More specifically, I think that the genes of two seemingly normal people (or not THAT weird people) can combine to create a child with a very different view of life.

[motherbell]

32. As a mother of two

autistic spectrim disorder children, one autistic, and one Rett Syndrome. My bet is that it is a genetic mutation caused by any number or factors.
The genetic marker for Rett Syndrome is in the X chromesome. Last time they were at the neuro, he was all excited about some new break through that he did not give me a clear message on. Their blood is in S. Carolina. He still thinks they are connected. Even though the one has the genetic marker of R306C, and the rest of the family does not have it.
This test was done almost five years ago. They have mapped out more since.
My question is that something triggers it. Some people have the mutation and never develop symptoms.

[HuckleB]

38. Genetic disposition.

Seems to be behind almost every developmental disorder and disease (even cancers, for example). Twin studies almost always show a clear genetic component but they also show that environment (a trigger of some kind) plays a part, because people with the same genes don't always develop the same disorders or diseases.

[HuckleB]

37. True, as far as it goes.

However, the development of those genes can be affected by the environment. It's not an either/or proposition.

[LeighAnn]

45. Were they getting any other thimerisol vaccines?

It would be silly to say, "MMR isn't causing autism!" if, in fact, they are still giving the babies mercury in other shots.

[NickB79]

48. That makes no sense

The MMR vaccine has never had mercury in it. If there is mercury in other vaccines that might cause autism, that is an entirely different matter not addressed by this study. This study only looked at the correlation between autism and MMR vaccines.

If it IS mercury that causes autism, then it is NOT silly to say MMR doesn't cause autism, since there is no mercury in it.