Social Security Rhetoric Disputed, Experts Poke Holes In Partisan Claims

[Rose Siding]

As the two political parties would have it, Social Security is either careening toward catastrophe or is on as solid financial footing as it has ever been. Both sides have marshaled -- or twisted -- facts and figures to back up those seemingly irreconcilable views.

But at its heart, the debate over Social Security's finances is really a brawl over the way the nation's preeminent retirement security system will deliver benefits to generations not even born. President Bush's warnings that Social Security is going broke are designed to build support for a restructuring that would allow younger workers to divert part of their payroll taxes into personal investment accounts. The "magic" of compounding interest will save the system from deep benefit cuts, while giving investors a comforting nest egg and a greater return on investment than they currently receive through the system, Bush contends.

Democrats, virtually unanimous in their opposition to such accounts, counter that the 70-year-old program for retirees and the disabled is fundamentally solid. Creating personal accounts would drive up government spending and debt while doing little to ensure the system's long-term solvency, they say. The main beneficiary of such accounts would be Wall Street "fat cats" profiting while low-income retirees suffer from the fickle fortunes of the stock market.

To help readers cut through the rhetoric, The Washington Post interviewed budget experts on both sides of aisle, who challenged some of the most important claims made by Bush and his Democratic critics in Congress.....MORE......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55797-2005Feb26.html

The criticisms offered here against dems consist of estimates made before bush has offered his concrete plan -as though he will ever do that- and a point about how the mgmt costs won't be any higher than on current mutual fund accounts. Doesn't that miss the point? Won't it still cost more (and benefit fund mgrs more) than the current system?

[Trajan]

1. THIS is a fucking LIE ....

"As the two political parties would have it, Social Security is either careening toward catastrophe or is on as solid financial footing as it has ever been. Both sides have marshaled -- or twisted -- facts and figures to back up those seemingly irreconcilable views."

NO Democrat that I have heard said that SS is "on as solid financial footing as it has ever been" .... Not a one ....

This is also a bifurcation fallacy, AKA false dilemma, AKA black and white fallacy ....

The fucking NERVE ....

[Rose Siding]

3. I haven't heard a dem say that either

This is another of example of Krugman's old joke on the media about mistaking balance for reporting: If bush said the earth were flat, the headline would be "Shape of Earth; Views Differ"

[sandnsea]

5. Or "they're trying to starve old people"

Democrats have never used those words either, but when selling this Center Aisle Caucus, that's exactly what Johnson said Democrats said "the group plans to be "blowing the whistle when members are unnecessarily disrespectful.” Johnson cited “the current debate over Social Security change where "one party is telling the other they are atavistic socialists from the 1930s and the other party is saying they are trying to starve old people."

They make up something for Democrats and put it up against something true about Republicans, and call it a wash. It was unbelievable that a guy who founds a group to bring respectful debate back to Washington would do that.

Well, not really.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=415

[Wwagsthedog]

2. Interesting article.

One good source of info on the SS topic is a running commentary by Joshua Micah Marshall.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

His blog is replete with how our legislative branch is representing (or not) our interests. Some are with us and others seem to shovel more of the same garbage we hear from dimson.

[kentuck]

4. Kudos to Josh Marshall..

I hope the Party is archiving all his posts....they could come in handy later... :)

[leQ]

9. josh is my hero. (eom)

.

[The Zanti Regent]

6. I've had it with the WHORESHINGTON POST

I am tired with this lying fascist rag whoring for the Nazi Party 24/7.

The time has come to boycott EVERYONE who advertises in this fascist rag. Boycott them and shut this fascist rag down!

[TahitiNut]

7. The Whore Media adopts the GOP language: "personal accounts"

It polls 17% better than "private accounts", so the presstitutes kiss GOP ass and again surrender control over language to reichbot propaganda.

[w4rma]

8. by Jim VandeHei & Jonathan Weisman. National Editor: Michael Abramowitz

Ombudsman: Michael Getler
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/interact/longterm/stfbio/wpemail.htm

[Mountainman]

10. Compound interest in the stock market? More like compound broker's fees

The money isn't going into a savings account. It's going into risk bearing market accounts that have management fees. You could stand to lose everything. It's like taking a sure thing and placing on the roulette table hoping your number comes up.

[creeksneakers2]

11. I disagree with this statement

The Post says, "To redeem those bonds, the government will have three choices: raise taxes, cut spending or borrow more money. Those are the same choices the government would face even if there were no trust fund."

If it weren't for the trust fund, I assume that the money used to finance the deficit would have just been borrowed elsewhere. We'd have two problems in the future...paying off the borrowed money plus keeping the promises of SS. With the trust fund, we can do both at the same time...a much smaller problem.