Spare the rod and you won't spoil the child, study finds

[Rose Siding]

snip>
...While she is in tune with the times, Ms. Rogers also illustrates the findings of new Statistics Canada research published yesterday showing that parents sparing the rod are raising children who are less aggressive and less anxious and behave more considerately of others.

More notable, the study found that when strict disciplinarians switch to a more laid-back parenting style, their children become less prone to bullying, anxiety and anti-social behaviour -- in equal measure to peers whose parents have always avoided spanking and screaming as forms of discipline.

"When parenting changed, the child's behaviour changed as well," said Statscan senior research analyst Eleanor Thomas.

"That's a positive message for parents. When we look at cognitive development, the thought is that it's hard to change intellectual abilities and language skills beyond three or four years of age, but this is showing that social behaviour and emotional changes are more linked to parent practices.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050222/YOUTH22/National/Idx

The results are from a "massive study" done by the National Longitudinal Survey of Children and Youth on 8 years of data.

[VegasWolf]

1. Well, i guess this explains the children in the South. n/t

[Tweed]

28. and many black children

[hector459]

34. Everything in moderation. There is a time when strict discipline is

required but this must be balanced with a lot of love. I received one spanking for lying to my mother and it was a lie about another kid that had my mother making a complaint to the police. When she found out that I had lied on the other kid she gave me the spanking of my life and told me why. She said: "Son, you know why I spanked you? It was for more than a single lie. It was because you not only lied to me, you lied about someone else and that child could have been in serious trouble because of your lie. I MUST BE ABLE TO TRUST YOU IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE and if you lie to me I won't be able to trust you nor will I be able to defend you when it may be necessary." I never forgat that spanking and I never lied to my mother or anyone else since.

[ret5hd]

2. well guess that answers that question.

[Rose Siding]

5. I dunno- sounds an awfully lot like that passe` "science" stuff

Studies and all...

[Megahurtz]

3. Makes sense.

:think:

[Auntie Bush]

4. Will someone please send this to Dobson.

[yellowcanine]

24. It would be lost on Dobson - Dobson actually got into a fight with his dog

trying to establish who was "in charge". So I don't think any little old "study" is going to convince him.

edit: link here
http://www.nospank.net/dugan.htm

[Larkspur]

6. We need to add this to Lakoff's reframing theory

Nurturing Parents raise more non-violent and responsible children than Strict Father type parents.

[NashVegas]

7. "Strict Discipline" is a Misleading Term in This Article

Discipline doesn't mean spanking or yelling, necessarily. It simply means following through on whatever punishment, for misbehavior, you say you're going to mete out.

[Rose Siding]

10. I haven't read the study, but

another article on it says this:

"A punitive parenting style was characterized by how often the parent yelled or used physical punishment."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1109008097297_104417297/?hub=TopStories

"Discipline" (or guidance or boundaries) can be imparted without the aggressive tactics, the results of which this study seems to track.

[Redstone]

16. Discipline also means CONSISTENCY, almost above

everything else. Withoug consistency (as noted by Crisco), the kids don't have any idea what the hell they can do or not at any given time.

Redstone

[Orsino]

37. The Army has an interesting definition...

"Discipline" is not punishment. Discipline is a state of good order that results from training.

I don't want to ban spanking. I want parents who spank to admit their own failure each time matters escalate to the point where spanking is necessary to get the child's serious attention.

My advice is free, however, and probably worth every penny. I'm not a parent.

[Griffy]

39. its the VIOLENT and AGGRESSIVE discipline thats the problem!

why oh why do these people hit and scream and shake their children... I got a good idea.. but the real question is can we, the rational people, break the cycle from abuser to abuser!

[AlCzervik]

8. well i'm a spare the rodder myself

i have never felt the urge to spank her so far and she's 10, she is also non-aggressive. I decided long ago that i would never hit my child because i had a step father that went way over the line and the only thing i learned from that was to fear him.

[spotbird]

9. The rod is leadership.

Like the shepherd’s rod in the 23rd Psalm, it is a distortion that the rod was ever to be used to strike a child. But everything they say is a distortion so why should this be different?

I agree that it is true that it isn’t necessary to strike a child. When my kids were little we would put them on the steps for a time out, we called it the big house. I’ll never forget a conversation my son, then about 5, had with a playmate who was telling my boy how lucky he was never to be spanked. My son replied that he’d rather be spanked since it’s over faster. My kids are as well or better behaved as any of their peers whose parents spanked them, and so far the adolescent rebellion is very manageable, almost trivial.

If used judiciously spanking can be harmless, but it is often overused, IMO. The kids have to learn to control themselves and spanking often doesn’t provide opportunity for thoughtful response to misdeeds. There will come a time that spanking can’t be used for control and the earlier other strategies that promote self control are implemented the better. Either way, it’s easy to spot the kids who are spanked for discipline, they hit their playmates.

[Rose Siding]

13. Its meaning has been perverted like so many others

I hate it when that happens. One of the nuttier pundits got popped a while back (by The Poor Man, I think) for identifying a Shakespearian quote as a biblical one.

[DemExpat]

20. I agree....

Either way, it’s easy to spot the kids who are spanked for discipline, they hit their playmates.


My kids were little angels at school and with friends, little devils at home with Mom. Can't be perfect all the time...:D

Adolescence was also not the nightmare I had dreaded.


DemEx

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Time to invade Canada.

First the legalization of gay marriage, then the decriminalization of marijuana, now this. I think they finally just stepped over the line.

[booksenkatz]

12. I didn't need a study to explain that to me

I married a man from a no-spanking home. He and his siblings and parents are the nicest, kindest, most considerate, patient, least violent people imaginable. I, on the other hand, was spanked for every little thing and it made me an emotional wreck to this day. (Mom tells me I'd cry for 2 days after a spanking.) Naturally, I spent a couple of years in a physically abusive relationship in college -- those of us who were spanked often really do associate love with violence. I'm grateful for good therapists over the years.

We knew we'd never spank our child from the start. The very idea of spanking bewilders my husband, and I myself know how it f*cked me up. Thus, we have never spanked our 5-year-old, and every adult who has ever been around him -- teachers, sitters, people in stores, people in restaurants -- always remark favorably on how well behaved, self-contained and polite he is. At any birthday party, he is the only child sitting nicely at the table and not running around. Sure, maybe it's just the way he was wired when he came into the world; but when I see his cousins -- who are spanked daily and who constantly act out violently -- I can't help but believe that the non-spanking component has really contributed to his calm self-discipline. Violence is just not part of his world view. He's never even pulled the cat's tail. (Since I was always hit as a child, I don't know what it must feel like NOT to get hit every day, so I don't know the definitive answer!)

[mainer]

14. Never thought of spanking my boys

And the older one was pretty rambunctious when he was younger. But we were big believers in time-outs. I'd just lock him in his room for an hour when he got to be too much. The thought of hitting a kid just never occurred to me.

[denverbill]

15. But the Bible says so, so it must be true.

Proverbs 13:24
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.


Just because 'scientists' 'studied' this doesn't make it true. It's just another 'theory' like 'evolution' and 'gravity'.

[Occulus]

21. How many times do we have to prove the Bible wrong

before we realize if it's wrong in two or more places it's inherently flawed?

(I didn't much like to say that, but it needed to be said. Just because it's in the Bible, it does not follow that it is right.)

[meow2u3]

25. It's not the Bible itself that's wrong

It's the fundies and neo-Pharisees who twist the Bible to justify their bullying of the smallest, weakest, and most helpless that's wrong.

Shakespeare said, "Even the devil can quote Scriptures for his own purposes." We have met those devils, and they are the so-called religious right!

[Redstone]

17. So how come if you slap an adult, it's

assault and battery and you go to jail, but if you do it to a kid, it's not?

They needed a study to find out that kids who do not get beat up are happier than ones who do? I'd have told them that for half of whatever they paid for the study.

Redstone

[EarlG]

18. Focus on the Family aren't going to like this

"...parents sparing the rod are raising children who are less aggressive and less anxious and behave more considerately of others."

This just goes to show why kids need to be spanked. Otherwise they will "behave more considerately of others" and we all know where that leads...

:eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. (gasp) COMMUNISM!

I'm only half joking. These RW extremists who like to hit kids may well be aware that this will make them into jerks, and WANT them to become jerks, because considerate people "look French".

[DemExpat]

22. Oh, but this report is a Canadian one....

can't become like THEM now, can we? COnsideration and all...

:eyes:

:-)

DemEx

[TahitiNut]

23. It leads to not enough 'volunteers' for the military?

Heaven forbid.

[xchrom]

26. lol -- bingo -- you win the prize!

[PassingFair]

30. Don't kid yourselves...

the corporal 'puke parent doesn't WANT less aggressive kids. They don't WANT kids who think for themselves. They want kids that do as Daddy says, or else. They don't care if their kids are considerate. That's for wussies. They're raising LEADERS, dammit!

:eyes:

[msmcghee]

27. The implicit message of spanking that is . .

. . learned by children is whoever is bigger and stronger can use force to control others.

Long after the misdeed that caused the spanking is forgotten - that's what will be retained.

In most cases that's the implicit message that was learned in childhood by parents who spank. They can justify it all they want . . but the situations where they use it are always the ones where their control is most seriously challenged and where they most want to establish it.

[sffreeways]

29. Here we go

these studies bring the child abusers out of the shadows to defend their right to assault their children. The friggen freepers hate this kind of thing.

Only an idiot strikes a child.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

31. Ha!

Finally something I'm the living proof of =p I'm sure I've gone and pissed off a lot of people here at the forums, and no I take responsibility for that and I don't blame it on my upbringing. I know the last thing on my mind would be to guard dog my opinion at some political forum though if I were raised with the understanding that life is greater than a rod, opinion, and a religion :)

Thanks for sharing this article.

[progressivebydesign]

32. Too authoritarian OR too laid back is bad...

I read an incredible book on raising responsible children, and self sufficient, as well.. In the book it cited several studies. the MOST intriguing was one that could predict with near-perfect accuracy WHAT drug or substance abuse, if any, was part of a teen life, based on studying parental styles. The parenting described in the article just posted here is bad, because they project anger and frustration on the child. Too laid back creates an anxious child as well, because they are not given the structure and direction needed. The healthiest kids had parents that were not considered too "cool", but were friends with their kids, while absolutely maintaining boundaries, structure, and discipline (not physical). Kids don't want to raise themselves.. while some people think just because their kid likes to play violent video games, or knows about politics, that makes them mini-adults. The greatest assurance that your kid will stay substance free is a combo of friend and parent. I happen to agree.

[msmcghee]

33. I know this will seem wierd . .

. . but having raised and trained several dogs in my life, I think a very good test for parenthood would be to require that a person raises and trains a well behaved, well-socilaized dog to maturity as a pet or working dog.

It requires all the skills you mention. You must be their friend but also the one who establishes boundaries. If you beat a dog it shows your own fear of losing control and the dog will grow up to be nervous and defensive.

Yet, at times you need to grab them by the scruff of their neck and demand their attention - demand that they know who is in charge. That is the same way that alpha dogs treat their younger packmates who get out of line.

Seriously, IMO anyone who can learn to raise a well-socialized and happy dog has a good basis in the skills for becoming a parent. It took me a couple of tries before I read some books, talked to some experienced, smart dog trainers and started to figure it out. I sure didn't get any clues from my own experience growing up in a disfunctional family.

[American Tragedy]

38. I was just about to post a very similar observation

I've never had a child, but I have spent a good deal of my life raising and training dogs. Although wise owners must negatively and positively reinforce certain behaviors, striking a dog can ruin their relationships with humans almost permanently, and cause them to become willful and aggressive. Even the omega canine in a pack is generally not abused by his leaders.

Although it's a common mistake to anthropomorphize our canines, there are similar processes involved. Both are highly social animals with a natural inclination to please those who care for them. Except for the most difficult cases, usually I have only to shout or clap my hands, and the dog will freeze and look up at me with her 'guilty' expression, tail tucked between her hind legs.

It's a good thing that they are like that, too. A few years ago I accepted a fully grown mastiff placed in foster care with me that literally weighed twice as much as I do. :)

Of course, besides all that, I wouldn't ever have the heart to hit a dog, I love them all too damn much.

[DemGa]

35. To hit a child, what a horrible breach of trust

[fshrink]

36. The amazing part

is that we would need a "study" for that. "...social behaviour and emotional changes are more linked to parent practices." I would ask for a study demonstrating in a statistical manner that being hit by a hammer on the head causes pain. I'm not sure...

[Zerex71]

40. Hey, I don't care what all the research in the worlds shows

But a good spanking never hurt anyone! Sometimes, you can't avoid it.