Lions "Close To Extinction" - 90% Population Drop In 20 Years - BBC

[hatrack]

"Lion populations have fallen by almost 90% in the past 20 years, leaving the animal close to extinction in Africa, a wildlife expert has warned. There are now only 23,000 left, compared to an estimated 200,000 two decades ago, according to Laurence Frank, a wildlife biologist from the University of California.

EDIT

Interviewed in New Scientist magazine, Dr. Frank says 'It's not just lions. Populations of all African predators are plummeting.'

The wild dog population has fallen to between 3,500 and 5,000 and there are now fewer than 15,000 cheetahs.

'People know about elephants, gorillas and rhinos, but they seem blissfully unaware that these large carnivores are nearing the brink,' he says."

EDIT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3119434.stm

[tom_paine]

1. Oh, LOTS of animals going extinct in the next millenia

Perhaps Homo Sapiens, as well.

Certainly the Bush track, which is really the Hitler track gussied up and spun for better PR effects (not to mention designed to destroy America, not Germany), is a neon arrow pointing in that direction...

[amazona]

2. all megafauna will be gone in a few years

There is really no place for them to go. Yet in zoos, lions must be put on birth control because there are not enough zoos that can hold these large animals. It is sad, but since people insist on destroying the continent of Africa and turning it into desert -- and by the way North America will likely end up as desert in its interior as well not too many decades after -- these large animals cannot live on air.

Plus there are just too many people now. Would you want a lion or a tiger running loose near your town? I think not.

It is a tragedy but I see no way to reverse the trend.

[Forkboy]

3. friggin pathetic

Tigers are almost gone too :-(

[Zorba607]

4. Chilling

Consider the fact that we as a planet are in the midst of an extinction event comparable to the Cambian (almost) or whatever took out dinosaurs. This is the sort of thing that has required some unthinkable cataclysm historically. But in this case, it is humanity itself that it this cataclysm. We've been on earth for the geological blink of an eye and in that brief time the extinction rate has risen exponentially. This trend of fucking with the keystone predators is going to bite a big chunk outta our ass and soon. Apex predators are so damn important in maintaining the stability of an ecosystem. We are perilously close to going over the edge.
And this is much more than Bush, although he isn't helping the situation.

[Barrett808]

5. The planet "knows" how to deal with population blooms...

...of any species. I suspect we'll live long enough to see our species dealt with. Unfortunately.

[moof]

15. in the interest of accuracy

The Cambrian Period or Cambrian Explosion as it is often refered to was not a destructive explosion but the rapid profuse appearance of a diversity of life forms over a 50 million year period starting about 540 million years ago.
The mass extinction event you describe may be the asteroid impact in the Yucatan region of Mexico 63 million years ago. It was most likely responsible for the K-T or Cretaceous - Tertiary boundary that marked the end of almost all the dinosaurs and allowed the mammals from which we have evolved to make progress.

As far as being chilling, here is a phrase, a trueism really,
that has haunted the moof hut for a long time:

species that harm the ecosystem become extinct

[hatrack]

22. One chilling biological phrase deserves another:

"The biotic potential of any species exceeds the carrying capacity of its habitat." - William Catton, "Overshoot"

[Barrett808]

6. Remember a story from 2000 about Poppy Bush and Schwarzkopf "hunting"

lions and other big game? There's some group that advocates for continued "hunting" -- which really consists of a ranger walking you up to an animal and letting you shoot it point blank.

Anybody remember that?

[hatrack]

7. Yep. I remember.

There was also information that macho fucks like Poppy and Stormin' Norman prefer to shoot the largest possible male lions available on their little renta-safaris - y'know, so that the trophy head on their study wall will be really really big and impressive.

Not surprisingly, there were serious genetic repercussions - as in substantial genetic drift setting in even among long-established lion populations. Too few different males, you see, leading to lack of diverse DNA, inbreeding, and population failures.

Phony macho dickhead posers. Let them go out there naked with a wooden spear for their trophies - then I might be inclined to be impressed with their "courage".

[Barrett808]

8. Do you remember the name of their club?

As I recall, they were opposing protected wildlife reserves.

[ILeft]

9. Safari Club International (SCI) ... those disgusting bastards

You might call the lions of southern Africa potential Bush meat. The former American president, George Bush senior, and his old Gulf War ally, General "Stormin' Norman" Schwarzkopf, are pleading with the government of Botswana to be allowed to revive their old alliance, this time in pursuit of Africa's endangered big cats.

Mr Bush is among prominent members of Safari Club International (SCI) who have written to the Botswanan authorities asking them to lift a ban slapped on trophy hunting of lions in February.

Arizona-based SCI describes itself as the largest hunting organisation in the world and people who do not like what it does as "animal protection extremists".


more...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479311,00.html

[Barrett808]

10. Thanks for the link. So completely depressing... n/t

n/t

[AndyTiedye]

14. The poor creature is usually tied up for these "canned hunts"

Can't have the "trophy" killing or maiming a customer, can we? (Please! Please!!)

[kwolf68]

11. When this does happen...

I will become one pissed off SOB. These selfish pricks have done it...

Safari Club International is the group mentioned and they are bad news. They are the type who will kill a bear innocently drinking water from a creek and then "stuffing him" bearing his teeth all big and mean.

I suggest the book "Dominion: The Power of Man, the suffering of animals and the call to Mercy" written by former Bush speech writer Matthew Sculley. It is brilliant and well done.

On another note...This is one of my favorite songs of all time written by the metal band Megadeth (one of the most intelligent bands ever). Sadly his former band-mate James Hetfield of Metallica is a big-game hunter...yet Metallica guitar player Kirk Hammett is a vegan. Go figure.


Endangered species, caged in fright,
Shot in cold blood, no chance to fight.
The stage is set, now pay the price.
An ego boost, don't think twice.
Technology, the battle's unfair,
You pull the hammer without a care.
Squeeze the trigger that makes you Man,
Pseudo-safari, the hunt is canned...
The hunt is canned.

/Chorus/
All are gone, all but one.
No contest, nowhere to run.
No more left, only one.
This is it, this is the Countdown to Extinction.

Tell the truth, you wouldn't dare.
The skin and trophy, oh so rare.
Silence speaks louder than words.
Ignore the guilt, and take your turn.
Liars anagram is 'lairs,'
Man you were never even there.
Killed a few feet from the cages,
Point blank, you're so courageous...
So courageous.

/Chorus/

[Mackay]

12. megadeath poetry

I don't hunt and I don't own guns... but I have to agree with the biologist from the article. The only way to save the lions and other animals is to make it economically interesting for the people who share their territory to protect them. It is great for you and the Megadeath poet to take the moral high ground on this issue... but I would prefer that a few lions perish to hunters (however stupid and cowardly their actions are) so that the species as a whole can survive.

Obviously, some sort of real solution has to be reached. Vegan sentiment is NOT going to dissuade these farmers from protecting their livestock.

My father is a veterinarian and about twenty years ago he told me this was the only way to save animals on the verge of extinction. Now that I am older and know that people act only out of self-interest it makes sense. Sad, but not as sad as the alternative.

[kwolf68]

13. BS

Hunting as a means for "animals to pay their own way"....How many times have I heard this argument and it is fallacious and self-serving.

If you put "value" on nature by how interested people are in hunting it, then you will have only a select few animals left. Those animals people don't want to hunt will be pushed to extinction, because after all...they can't bring "value". In effect, the world will become one giant fucking game hunting preserve. Now, that is what "God" had in mind I am sure when he tossed them on the ark.

Further, ideas such as eco-tourism are taking shape and should be explored.

This isn't about being a vegan either. This is about being humane and fostering a world that doesn't glorfy death and violence. I am sorry, but hunting an animal just for the sole purpose of killing it to make it a trophy is abnormal in my view. It's one thing if you have to kill an animal to surivive, but entirely different if you just enjoy killing.

I believe the "economic rationale" of hunting is a sick, twisted perception on "how to save" the worlds animals. Essentially we serve them up on an assembly line, let hunters indiscrimantely kill what is most likely the animals with the most vibrant genetics, and they can pontificate about the "service" they are doing...

As far as farmers protecting their livestock. This would not be an issue if HUNTERS hadn't killed off all the prey species of predators. This is when Wolves turned on Cattle in the West...Because we killed off all the prey, took possession of the land, replacing one ungulate with another leaving a hungry pack of wolves with no choice. They react and are persecuted.

Every instance of an out of whack ecosystem can be traced to man...either through habitat destruction or hunting.

[Mackay]

17. Funny thing is we agree on the root of the problem

"Every instance of an out of whack ecosystem can be traced to man...either through habitat destruction or hunting."

i completely agree with you... on this point. I am a fervent environmentalist.

However, I think your own views are rather self serving (for your ideology) and illogical. We are getting close to the point of no return for the survival of certain species. If you are willing to let a species perish, only because "This is about being humane and fostering a world that doesn't glorify death and violence", then I guess that means you ultimately, really don't care about what happens to the lions.

Wake up... the world isn't going to stop glorifying violence anytime soon. Letting the lions die out isn't going to change that. Also, the real problem is third world farmers who are largely uncontrollable except by their own profit. If greenpeace could suddenly show up and intervene in every potential lion shooting, that would be great... but there is no way to stop this type of random and sporadic killing.

Regardless of whether it is humane, or fair... game parks would preserve the species. So I would support that. Eco-tourism would of course be preferable... but if it takes both, I think people who truly care about existance of the lions can see this as a solution. Like myself, I think the researcher in the article views these game parks as a necessary evil.

Your own position is BS, because you don't offer a practical solution...

[NickB79]

19. That is also BS

"If you put "value" on nature by how interested people are in hunting it, then you will have only a select few animals left. Those animals people don't want to hunt will be pushed to extinction"

In the US, land is protected and set aside to provide improved hunting land for game species such as deer, bear, elk, etc. But you still see hundreds of other species in abundance simply because they share the same habitat, such as songbirds, reptiles, small mammals, insects, etc. How will those animals not being hunted but sharing the same ecosystem be pushed to extinction, if no one is hunting them AND their habitat is being protected?

"This would not be an issue if HUNTERS hadn't killed off all the prey species of predators. This is when Wolves turned on Cattle in the West"

This is also not entirely accurate, because the major downfall of the bison and pronghorns in the West was due to the US government purposefully killing them to starve the Native Americans into submission. I'd hardly call government-sponsored mass shootings "hunting" as we know it. Even if we hadn't done so, the introduction of fencing to block off large sections of land for farming (for both cattle and wheat) prevented the migration of Plains ungulates to new grazing grounds. Hunters as we know them today had little to do with the widespread slaughter of these animals.

BTW, the whitetail deer population was considered endangered in 1900, only 500,000 left in the US. Hunting and the money it brought in to improve habitat and stop illegal poaching has allowed their population to reach 20 MILLION today (to the point they are now becoming a nuisance). The same goes for wild turkeys, black bear, pronghorns, elk, and several other game species. You'd expect that these should all be extinct by your logic, or at the very least all the songbirds and other non-game animals to be extinct. The exact opposite seems to be occurring. You can speak all you like about the morality of putting value on wildlife, but the fact is that subsistance farmers have been doing it for millenia and will continue doing it if thats what it takes to survive. Even ecotourism puts value on wildlife and nature, just as you say hunting does.

[AndyTiedye]

16. People Will Pay to SEE these animals, not only to kill them

The foundation that is protecting cheetahs raises money by bringing some cheetahs
to places where people can see them run.

There are other safaris where people hunt animals with cameras instead of guns.

[Mackay]

18. Please, read the article

Cheetah populations are dropping.

I think that such sight seeing tours are a great initiative. However...

Once again, as A NON-HUNTER and somone who is generally opposed to hunting and gun ownership, open your eyes, it is NOT less cruel to let put the species as a whole at risk. For the moment, eco-tourism is not sufficient.

It took me a long time to develop this opinion because I used to react sentimentally and not logically. My father suggested this to me twenty years ago and I was sure he was flat out wrong. Twenty years later... 90 PERCENT reduction in the numbers of lions...

Lame ass hunting is sad... but obviously there are worse possibilities...

[Raenelle]

20. Cold knot in the stomach

and a lump in my throat over that.

[Lorien]

21. Tragic and horrifying

I believe that we will see mass extinction's within our lifetimes that have not been seen since the event that brought an end to the dinosaurs if we don't take action immediately. Efforts must be taken NOW to avoid as much of this as possible-being a complete fatalist does none of us any good. Contribute to the World Wildlife fund, Defenders of Wildlife and other groups that are doing all they can to set aside habitat, pass legislation to protect wildlife, and offer alternatives to total environmental devastation to people living near wild areas. Also consider donations to ZPG, which promotes zero population growth around the globe by empowering women and offering contraceptives and birth control education.