Alcohol 'as harmful as smoking'

[T_i_B]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4232703.stm

Alcohol causes almost as many deaths and disabilities globally as smoking or high blood pressure, researchers warn.

The researchers found 4% of the global burden of disease is attributable to alcohol, compared with 4.1% to tobacco and 4.4% to high blood pressure.

The report looks at diseases including cancers of the mouth, liver and breast, heart disease and stroke, and cirrhosis in which alcohol can play a role.

It also highlights the role of alcohol in car accidents, drownings, falls and poisonings. Alcohol is also linked to a proportion of self-inflicted injuries and murders.

[pnutchuck]

1. Let's not give them any reason to reinitiate prohibition....

I'm still signing petitions to legalize medicinal marijuana :toast:

[T_i_B]

4. Long way to go before that

In the article the scientists are more worried about the UK Government's plans to liberalize our licencing laws to allow 24-hour drinking. The tide is in the other direction in the UK at least.

[sam sarrha]

30. The alcohol industry pays a lot of money to Campaigns to prevent marijuana

[HuckleB]

33. Yeah, so does that make alcohol prohibition a good idea?

[Redstone]

2. That's really depressing news...

I think I'll go have a drink.

Redstone

[Botany]

3. That is it ......

...... I will go pour out my booze. INTO A GLASS!

:beer:

[sendero]

5. Yeah...

... but it's a lot more fun!

[Massachusetts]

6. And Global Warming, and Mercury in fish, and polluted water, and "mad" cow

and....Oh what the heck I'll drink to it all....Brilliant!:toast: :toast: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[KarenS]

7. BUT,,,, there is another study,,,,,

Seems that moderate alcohol use in older women can be good

:)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/health/01drin.html

[RC]

8. Alcohol use or the abuse of alcohol?

Just another group with an agenda.
Look at the bad, ignore the good.
Call the effect the cause and diddle with the current common knowledge and call those the facts. Get more rules, laws for what you don't like, don't want.

How about some reality for a change before going charging off against the evil of the day?

[trotsky]

13. Precisely. THANK YOU for saying this.

*Abuse* of alcohol is what causes these problems.

Moderate drinking, one to two drinks per day, is actually one of the healthiest things you can do for your heart. It's right up there with exercise and diet.

[madrchsod]

9. no shit

they actually had to research this? where can i get a job that pays to research something that has already been proved?

[MemphisTiger]

10. This article seems to mean "abuse" of alcohol

If you take it in moderation, you should be okay. They make the link to smoking. If you smoke the average amount, 2 packs a day, that is excessive. How do you compare that to a couple of drinks a week? Or even per day?

[sam sarrha]

14. Any smoking is excessive and i was a 'moderate' alcoholic for 30 years..IT

TOTALLY FUCKED UP MY LIFE.. and negatively effected those around me..MY 27 year old hates me.. i lost my family.

obviously since you stated this as a question.. you are confused.

any tobacco use is a SERIOUS health hazard.. it is so addictive that anyone who uses any.. is in denial about their addiction

and no from my perspective.. ANY alcohol it isn't worth the dangers. get a pet cobra instead. alcohol addiction is insidious, i in 8 are hopelessly addicted upon their first drink.. addiction is for ever!!! you will drink compulsive and totally against you will for 20 to 30 years if you lack one or more of the enzymes. so when you take the next drink.. will you know.. or wake up literally 30 years later from a 30 year black out. it messes up your head.

so have you ever driven a car after 2 drinks or more within 2 hours..
ANY alcohol will impair your judgment.. if you did once.. did you twice..?? is it a pattern. welcome to denial, denial is a central aspect of addiction. tell a drunk he has had enough, or has a 'problem' and you will see denial in action all over you. and you too can be that guy.. you could be halfway there and not know it... hell you could have been there for years and not known it.. that is the way it works

it isnt like when you realize you are addicted you can just quit!!.. that is only the beginning of your problems. it is easier to prevent.





it doesnt work that way, I took a 5 day seminar with Dr. David Smith on multipal addictions, they seem to come in 2's.. usually 3's. by the time you realize it it is too late for most.. they just resolve themselves to living with it...what a life.:party: :toast: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: one is too many, thousand is not enough :beer: :beer: :beer: :wow:

[MemphisTiger]

17. I am sorry for the way that alcohol has messed up your life

BUT, I would like to hear your definition of "moderate" drinking. Also, do you have a link or reference for your 1 in 8 are addicted at their first drink. I drink, but it doen't control my life. I actually gave it up for several months to prove I had no addiction. I had no problems so I resumed my drinking. If I ever thougth I had a problem, I would take the proper steps to get rid of the problem, like AA or cold turkey. I think your blanket statement is false. It may apply to you, but don't judge other that can handle thier drinking and life.

[TruthBeTold22]

24. My Rights

You have no right to force your morality on me because of your problems.

[spunky]

27. Generalizations don't work that easily

Not everyone is the same. These may be the issues you had with alcohol/tobacco, but it isn't the same for everyone.

I know smokers who smoked for a few months, quit and never smoked again. I know other smokers who smoked for YEARS, decided one day, hey, I don't want to do this anymore, and never smoked another cigarette. I personally want to quit and find it difficult, but that is not the experience everyone has.

I'd say the same thing for alcohol. I have a beer every evening when I get home from work and it causes me no problems (other than a little bit of a beer belly). If I haven't been to the store, or if I don't get home until late and I don't have a drink one day, its no sweat, I think nothing of it. I just enjoy being able to relax with a beer while I cook dinner.

I don't mean to downplay what it is like for people who do have alcohol troubles, for them it can be quite serious, but not eveyone who drinks gets addicted.

[booksenkatz]

29. You're right, spunky

Each person is biologically so different. When I smoked many years ago, I could make a pack last 6 weeks. I absolutely could take it or leave it, but I did enjoy it when I chose to do it. Same for alcohol, which I still enjoy today from time to time. I drink maybe once a month, if that, but when I do, I enjoy the hell out of it. So far, so good, right? WRONG. I am hopelessly and helplessly addicted to chocolate. I am not saying that to be funny. I go batshit if I don't get sugar every day. Even just a little... but I HAVE to have it. I think that I've read that addiction to certain substances is determined by brain wiring/chemistry, isn't it? My dad always taught me "moderation in everything, don't let any substance control your life" and that has served me well, except in the case of chocolate. If I ever reached a point where I was killing or stealing to ensure my hit of sugar for the day, then I would need help.

I'm sorry for those whose lives have been ruined by alcohol or tobacco, but I still believe that it should be an individual's choice in a free country. I think that marijuana should be legal for either medicinal or recreational use, although I've never smoked it myself. We also need to make sure that help is always available for those who have lost their center of control, whatever the addiction.

[MemphisTiger]

34. I'm the same way with potato chips rather than chocolate

Plain Lay's potato chips from a freshly opened bag, a little slice of heaven

[spunky]

36. Oh my god, me too.

I get really grumpy if I want a handful of lays potato chips in the evening while I'm watching TV and I don't have any. And I have a similar problem with ginger ale. Gotta have one every morning and every night.

[pnutchuck]

47. Just because you're an addict, doesn't mean the rest of the world are

addicts after one drink. I live in Paris, France, land of champaigne and wine and people here are very much in control. I think the advertisements for alcohol, the restrictions placed on age and hours of closing all contribute to over drinking. I have a friend from France that owns a bar/restaurant in LA and he complains that shutting off alcohol at 1:30 just makes people start drinking more. He doesn't like this, because they get out of control. There is a severe lack of control in the states that they just don't have in more tolerant European countries.

I lived in Amsterdam for 3 mos. where they sell Heinekins from a vending machine, no ID needed. You NEVER saw children trying to buy any.

I lived in Indonesia, and Thailand, where there are no age limits on drinking, and there just wasn't a problem with alcohol abuse.

Really, before we start accusing the drug, shouldn't we look at the users?

[sam sarrha]

11. Alcohol is the 4th major health hazard in the USA, 1 in 8 addicted on

upon their first drink.

Alcohol and Tobacco are the reasons we cant get universal healthcare. we would only be subsidizing the people who kill

addiction takes many levels, not all end up on skid row.

But you see the people who delightfully conger up excuses to drink, historically dangerous and foolish things like drinking games for all occasions.. taking any anyone ignorant of the consequences along with them. people die doing that stuff all the time.. mostly younger inexperienced people emulating their Hero's activities.. with inhibited judgement...

i have a friend who just got out of jail and faces 3 years if caught using or around alcohol, drinks everyday all the time. calls me up and talks drunken shit.. i tell him dont call me when you are drunk.. but he is always drunk.

i drank for 30 years.. I am and addict, i haven't had any alcohol for about 6 years. i cant believe i wasted more than half my precious life doing NOTHING but using alcohol. and running with those that did also

there are about 81,000 thousand alcohol deaths, i dont know if that includes the people who get killed by alcoholics. but that number is WAY LOW.. my father died of a complication of both and i am sure he wasn't counted.. the suffering we endured due to his addictions was never counted, beatings, malnutrition because his addictions came first..the embarrassment and harassment and violence i suffered in public schools for wearing rags and being poor was hideous..

i have compassion for drunks but no sympathy, i got no time for their bullshit, and and let them know immediately, i report drunk drivers whenever i see someone in a car with a beer, or aparently using. i have had 4 friends killed by drunks

The politicians are whores to the industry.. not much will be done about the problem any time soon.

[HuckleB]

16. Please show us the peer-reviewed, valid research to back up your claims.

Thank you.

[Danmel]

12. Cigarettes are NEVER safe, Alcohol is only bad if ABUSED

Or if you're pregnant or have some underlying medical condition. There are appropriate, even beneficial uses for alcohol, while cigarette smoking is just plain bad for your health.

You always have to assess risks and benefits based on your personal health and family history, not on some general study. Different people have different things to worry about. If you have heart disease in your family a glass of wine a day is a good thing. If you have breast cancer in your family, it might not be. If you have both, you may as well drink and enjoy yourself while you can!

[noamnety]

38. Exactly

Unlike cigarettes, abuse of alcohol is the problem, not all alcohol.

Heart attack patients are sometimes on doctor's orders to have a drink of alcohol a day. (Not five drinks, just one.) It helps to save lives, when it isn't being abused.

My dad is one of those patients, btw.

[pnutchuck]

48. I've lived in countries where people have smoked since childhood

the Native Americans smoked their entire lives, long ones at that. NO, smoking is not necessarily hazardous, it's cigarettes, the ones that are being doped to increase addiction. Oh, those whould happen to be the cigarettes made in America by the Big 7.

[HuckleB]

15. Abuse of alcohol may indeed play a role this big.

However, there is some context missing. More people drink than smoke, for instance. Further, mild alcohol use has been shown repeatedly to be a protective agent against various diseases. The same cannot be said of tobacco.

[fshrink]

18. Alcohol is a des-inhibitor.

What you do when you're drunk reveals your problem. It's like saying that sleep is harmful because you have nightmares. Stupidity, meaningless work, misery, fake pleasures, guilt, empty lives and constant frustration, among others, are what's under. And they probably account for way more than 4%. But no one can change that right? So much better to blame it on individuals and alcohol!

[sam sarrha]

28. "What you do when youre drunk reveals your problem", usually Alcoholism !!

alcohol is the problem... for drunks, i have worked in the prison industry.. 87% of the people in prison are nonViolent offenders and most, if not all are substance abusers.

i think you got it backwards.. Most of the Problems are symptoms of alcohol use.. it changes the structure of the brain and alters normal perceptual functions.. they are the consequences not the cause. my father let us go hungery and live in gut wrenching poverty in hell holes with rats and fleas and roaches and wear rags because he was an alcoholic.. not the other way around. ...are you in denial??

[HuckleB]

35. Actually, the vast majority of people who have been drunk in their lives..

are not alcoholics.

[fshrink]

51. You're making some cocktail!

Obviously, we don't have the same approach. Which is understandable since you worked in the prison industry and I am a clinical psychologist.

[Carni]

19. And Bushit is more harmful than the two of them put together!

Why don't these clowns apply themselves to a study of how harmful bush is?

[Auntie Bush]

20. And our president was a drunk for 25 years!

[0007]

21. Every year it is the same thing. First they tell us a drink or two

a day prevents heart attacks and is good for the general health of the body. Then two months later a report comes out like this one.

You can count on it

[Boswells_Johnson]

26. Yeah, and it's the same thing with food: eating X helps prevent cancer

until another study finds it to be be untrue.

I'd rather take some pleasure from living than drink nothing but water (and protein shakes) and eat scientifically measured sustainance servings.

Mark my words, one day they'll find that everything we consume causes eventual death.

[HuckleB]

37. This has far more to do with how the press covers research.

This is why I always send folks to the Harvard Health sites for nutrition information. They take the research as a whole, in context, and they don't jump to conclusions based on single research projects. Unfortunately, the press can't seem to do this. But what can one expect from the MSM?

[Psephos]

39. I agree - it's an MSM problem, not a science problem n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Did Someone Get Paid To Reach This Conclusion?

Talk about "Well, duh!"
The Professor

[MadisonProgressive]

23. If Guns don't kill, then neither does alcohol

[lynne]

25. Let's not forget "Second-Hand Alcohol" Victims -

- those who are innocent but are injuried or killed in car accidents at the hands of a drunk driver. Families that are torn apart by drinking. Wives and children abused by drinking family members. The cost to society when families must go on welfare or assisted living as an alcholic family member can't keep a job. The medical bills that are directly related to drinking. The emotional toll and the eventual expense of counseling for the children of alcholics. The cost to employers due to workers absence when "hung over" - and those hung-over workers who produce inferior products which we then purchase. The list goes on and on . . .

There is no such thing as "safe drinking". What one person can handle may make another roaring drunk. The damage to the body is accummulative, as it is with cigarettes.

Finally, recognition that there are other things out there that are unsafe for society as a whole! Yep, the purchase and use of liquor should be as restricted and taxed and as difficult as possible. Drinkers should be shunned by society and should not be allowed outside of the home to prevent drunks from driving on the road.

No, it's not about personal choice. Choice has nothing to do with it. It's about what could maybe possibly might have an impact on someone else in some fashion. Drinking fits the bill and should be outlawed!

Ahhhh . . . I've been waiting for this day . . . paybacks are hell and I - and probably a lot of other smokers - absolutely RELISH this! I've no problem giving up my alcohol as it isn't nearly as good without a cigarette to go with it. Since society is trying to force me to give up the one - I'm more than happy to see a little pressure put on the other.

[HuckleB]

32. They're included in this study.

[dmallind]

40. But in reality...

..the differences are very easy to point out.

Every smoker causes second hand smoke. Every time. This is damage that IS - always and without fail - caused by smokers to nonsmokers, by the very act of smoking.

There is no such unavoidable, everpresent damage with drinking (to others - there certainly is to the drinker). You are at a risk so close to zero of suffering adverse health effects simply by being around drinkers that it's not even worth worrying about. Any supposed risk of alcohol to non-drinkers is entirely secondary to simple proximity - unlike smokers. For example "drunk driving" deaths are often touted as a severe risk of alcohol consumption.

To deal with those, let's ignore for a moment that these stats are falsely inflated by a factor of 2 due to the subjective FARS raw data reporting system and NHTSA's inclusion of pedestrians etc (strange but true - if a person has a couple of beers after work and walks home safely on the sidewalk, when a schoolbus with 20 kids and a teetotal driver skids on the ice, runs into him and continues on over the highway bridge, killing him and all 21 riders in the bus, that counts as 22 "drunk driving" deaths). Heck let's ignore the fact that all "drunk driving" deaths where the actual driver is actually drunk are not caused by the alcohol (the majority of fatal accidents are not alcohol-related even in MADDs wildest fantasies - surely whatever causes those accidents can also happen to drunks?).

So in other words let's imagine that the insane 41% figure often claimed - or about 18000 deaths - really ARE caused by drunk drivers. This is of course completely false, but hey I'll go along with MADD for now. Now the difficult part is finding how many drunk driving trips are taken. Surveys are difficult here as no-one even vaguely connected to reality will admit to driving drunk in a roadside survey! However when such surveys are taken they normally come up with about 3-5% of drivers being impaired - more on Saturday nights of course, and less on Tuesday mornings.

So let's even be generous to MADD's cause and take the LOWEST number since this will be our denominator. 3% of licensed drivers in the country is about 5.5 million impaired drivers (there are about 180 million daily drivers on the road). Let's again be insanely generous and say they only take ONE impaired trip on any given day - no bar hopping or beer runs. That's just over 2 billion "drunk driving" trips per year. If that sounds too high think of all the bars in your area. Look at their full parking lots. Go in and see how many people are not drinking alcohol. Multiply that for every town in the nation every day of the year. It's a very conservative number.

Which means that's a .00089% chance of a "drunk driver" killing anyone. Statistically speaking you can take just over a million DD trips before you kill anyone - about 3000 years of daily drunk driving. And I was incredibly overstating the case at every step to make it look as BAD as I could.

Now does that mean it's a good idea to get shitfaced and drive? Hell no - only a moron would say that alcohol does not increase risk, especially at very high levels. However the insane idea that any amount of beer makes you a driving time bomb sure to mow down innocent children playing on the street is just that - insane.

[wovenpaint]

31. As a first hand observer of the damage alcohol can cause

I agree and would even go further to say that, IMHO, alcohol is more harmful than smoking. (Coming from an ex-smoker)
I was married to an alcoholic-oh, we started off as "normal drinkers" but looking back, he was a drunk from the start.
Anyway, My(now ex) husband decided to go into detox when our oldest son turned one. By that time, our lives were hell and he was dually addicted to beer and cocaine. You haven't seen anything if you haven't seen an alcoholic seizure and someone go through withdrawal. He was in rehab for 6 weeks and went to AA meetings daily for the next year or so. Now, my son is turning 23, his father is on 22 years sobriety. He'll be the first to tell you, he's one drink away from falling back-to this day. He still goes to AA at least once a week. This was a big factor in our marriage breaking up a few years later, but I give him ALOT of credit for his sobriety.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a glass of wine regularly, but I am concerned for (my and all other) young adults involved our "beer culture" (rapidly becoming hard liquor culture) and the portrayal of how wonderful life is with a "Bud" in your hand. There are 2 sides to the coin. I've seen the other one and hate the thought of anyone having to go through the agony-yes, addiction CAN happen to you. Read Sam's posts....become even more aware of what you're guzzling.
Oh boy, this subject gets me going....!

[Boomer]

42. I come from a family of alcoholics....

...and I married an alcoholic, too. So I know quite well the dangers of ABUSING alcohol. For alcoholics there is no "safe" amount of drinking, moderate or otherwise, but that is because they have a biologically different reaction to alcohol ingestion.

If I had been fully aware of the history of alcholism in my family -- which I didn't learn about until I was in my mid-30s -- I might have given a great deal of thought to being a tee-totaler to avoid the risk of alcoholism myself.

As it is, however, I didn't know, and I drank. And I'm fine -- I seem to have missed out on that particular gene or cluster of genes. I drink extremely moderately according to the standards of American society, a few bottles of wine a month, only a few hard alcohol drinks a year. I love frozen margueritas but they're too expensive to buy often and I'm usually the driver, so I rarely drink when I go out. I can leave an opened bottle of wine in the fridge for days, if not weeks, because I simply forget it's there.

I'm actually trying to drink MORE, for health reasons. My goal is at least one or two bottles of red wine per month, to help combat my high blood pressure. Unfortunately, I'm much more likely to remember about the slice of pie in the fridge than a bottle of wine, so I'm pretty sure alcoholism isn't going to be a problem for me.

On the other hand, the over emphasis on drinking in this culture is really distasteful -- the keggers, the cases of beer for SuperBowl Sunday, Happy Hours after work -- all of these are creating a climate in which moderate drinking is NOT supported, rather abuse of alcohol is legitimized.

Americans seems to want to do everything to excess -- an all or nothing choice -- which is childish rather than adult in approach to complex issues.

[daleo]

41. There are countries that prohibit alcohol

Many countries severely restrict or prohibit alcohol, especially Muslim countries. I don't know that it has helped their life expectancies. They still seem to have their share of violence and other social problems.

As others have mentioned, there is a danger in summing up all the costs of an activity without considering the benefits. There are numerous studies that show light to moderate drinking has benefits for the cardio-vascular system, and cardio-vascular disease is the major killer in more prosperous parts of the world.

Lots of people do abuse alcohol and they can be a hazard to others. Some of these people may have been a hazard anyway. There definitely are people who are best off avoiding alcohol, but I don't think prohibiting it for the general population is worth the gain.

Maybe pot should be legalized instead of alcohol. I have never met a violent person buzzed on marijuana. Impaired driving is an issue - maybe we should just ban cars. They probably do more harm than booze or pot.

[Roaming]

43. Moderation is the key; heck, even the Bible has many, many

passages talking about what a blessing wine is, etc. (and Jesus was no teetotaler himself!)

[Zhade]

44. And yet, MARIJUANA is illegal while alcohol is not.

This country is utterly insane.

[Chicago Democrat]

45. No, duh..

pretty damn obvious

[Megahurtz]

46. Oh no!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!:beer:
:silly:

[fedsron2us]

49. I wonder how many people get rubbed out each year due to

the use of prescription drugs. The medical profession usually likes to gloss over these fatalities.

[HuckleB]

50. Yeah, those bloody doctors. They don't give a rip about their patients!

:eyes: