Bush Budget to Scrap Subsidy for Amtrak-Sources

[cal04]

The Bush administration will for the first time propose eliminating operating subsidies for passenger train operator Amtrak as part of a push to cut budget deficits, people close to the budget process said on Tuesday. President Bush's fiscal 2006 budget, which he will send to Congress on Monday, will allocate no subsidy for Amtrak to run its trains. But it will offer $360 million for maintenance on the flagship Northeast Corridor between Washington and Boston -- which Amtrak owns -- and for commuter services.

The proposal must be approved by Congress, and the administration faces a fight in getting approval for a budget that aims to nearly freeze the growth of domestic spending not tied to national defense.
An influential Democrat warned that if enacted, the Bush administration's budget would set the nation's only city-to-city passenger service "on a course to bankruptcy."

Last year, the Bush administration proposed $900 million in subsidies, but Congress increased that to $1.2 billion after the railroad said the administration's proposal would force it to shut down.
An Amtrak spokesman would not comment when asked about the possibility of the rail service losing the bulk of its federal allocation.

Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, the ranking Democrat on the appropriations subcommittee on transportation and a strong Amtrak supporter, said she was deeply concerned about the budget move. "For four years they have played budget games and fought congressional efforts to keep Amtrak afloat," Murray said. "Now, despite the fact that Amtrak has gone to great lengths to get their costs under control and run more efficiently, the president is again offering a budget that sets the rail service on a course to bankruptcy," she added.



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050202/us_nm/bush_amtrak_dc

[TheMightyFavog]

1. Sigh, fucking airline industry.

Gotta get rid of the competition.

[kclown]

2. red states get screwed

Boston-Washington keeps running thru the blue states.  South
and west=no train service.

I anticipated this and in 1997 I took my two boys, 9 & 11
cross-country and back on Amtrak in two weeks.  A lot of my
advice might still be useful to anyone who decides to get some
Amtrak while there is some left to get.  PM me.

[Harry S Truman]

3. Amtrak is a bargain

And many GOP congressmen support it. It has been underfunded for years, and the real miracle is that Amtrak has been able to mantain a national system on the pittance it receives. The roads and the airports don't pay for themselves, so why do we ask passenger rail to?

Amtrak's plight is only part of a sad lack of a focused, cohesive federal transportation policy that hurts rail, air, road and seaway intermodal. And they'll never figure it out, either, with congressional transportation power so often misplaced into the hands of people from Oklahoma and Alaska.

Ride the train while you can, friends. It's the finest way to go.

[Mountainman]

4. If ever we get into another world war, we have no manufacturing base

we will have no means to move mass numbers of people around the country.

The North East Corridor had to get trains from Germany and France to test high speed rail travel then had their new trains built in Canada.

These fucks will have us strung up by the balls by the other nations in the world some day. We will be sitting on a pile of weapons with no allies and no way to use them.


I don't think they have the common sense needed to run this nation.

[dpibel]

5. Damn, this frosts me

Every year, the whining about the Amtrak subsidy. As if it's the only thing standing in the way of the balanced budget.

When the airlines shut down for a week after the terra attacks, congress, without hesitation gave them more money than Amtrak had gotten in its history.

The mighty, budget-busting Amtrak subsidy? A day or two of the Iraq invasion. Less than the tax breaks for any major corporation.

And every year without stinking fail it's a huge story. Kill the trains!! It's the only thing that will save us!!!

Sometimes I think this country is too goddamned dumb to breathe without reminders. Most of the time I think that. Almost all the time, come to think about it.

[Lorien]

6. Amen

what we need in a national high speed rail project instead of CUTTING the budget for rail travel. Here we are on the brink of a climate change disaster and locked in an unwinnable war for oil, and they pull this shit? It's all about short term profits, and it will eventually destroy the country AND the planet!

[Colorado Blue]

17. Too true. The oil industry is gonna finish us. Trains,

other forms of sane transportation, are absolutely vital to national security among other things.

I cannot believe all the garbage this administration is throwing at us. It's absolutely unbelievable.

[bluedog]

23. here in Florida

a few years back we voted FOR the bullet train......Jebby boy decided to "derail" this and never went through with plans for this and its still on the back burner somewhere..the voters spoke for a system to ease traffic on our roads...........but the government doesn't listen to us.

[pinto]

8. Big AMTRAK supporter, love trains, & share your sentiments.

I live near a station on the Coast Starlight/Surfliner line and will be going to to LA for the day in February to see that plasticened body exhibit, probably taking the first train down and the last train back and, oh yeah, great views along the coast, some food by a window on the Pacific and noooo freeway into LA.

[American Renaissance]

7. put it out of its misery!

The Northeast Corridor is the only place in North America where pax rail makes any sort of sense, and in the Northeast Corridor it can make it on its own.

Running empty trains from armpit to armpit is a waste of money.

[pinto]

9. West Coast trains are packed.

The Seattle/SF/LA/San Diego trains (multiple lines) have a good consistent ridership and are a real asset, especially along the Central California coast lines.

[dannynyc]

11. If Amtrak had a reliable service more people would use trains

But, Amtrak is stuck using tracks owned by other railroads who have right of way. So, Amtrak waits and its schedule is screwed.

Actually, I have proposed this solution to many people, including both of my senators:

The Bush Administration wants the US to have an "ownership society". So, in accordance with this plan, the airlines should own all their operating costs - the costs of the FAA, cost of airport construction and maintenance, cost of airline control system, etc. Of course, this would result in higher costs for airline tickets.

This is also a matter of fairness, which the Bush Administration likes to use (when it's to their benefit). Why should all taxpayers contribute to the cost of air travel when only those people who use air travel benefit?

In this scenario, I would guess Amtrak would be a much greater bargain - not to mention a much more comfortable form of transportation - and would become economically viable.

[AndyTiedye]

12. Those Trains Are NOT Empty

Have you ridden the California Zephyr or the Coast Starlight lately?
They run pretty near full every day.

You'd think that having all air travel shut down for a week after 9/11
would have given some people a clue about not putting all one's
transportation eggs in one basket.

Killing the trains to help the airlines doesn't make sense either.

One reason that the foreign airlines do better than the US ones
is because they don't have to run so many money-losing short hops.
They have good connections between rail and air, and the railroads
and the airlines work together.

Trains do short trips really well, while short-hop air passengers
spend most of their time in security checks, waiting to board, waiting
to take off and waiting to land. Planes use massive amounts of fuel
just to get off the ground, but it's hard to recoup their costs on
those low-fare short trips.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. Did you know that the 9/11 bailout of the airlines

cost more than all the subsidies Amtrak has ever gotten from the Federal government?

More people would ride it if it ran more frequently. I tried to ride it on a few occasions, but with only 1 train every 24 hours (all they can afford to run), it was never convenient. Only the Portland to Seattle run (which goes several times a day) worked for me.

[gulliver]

10. Another American tradition trashed by the money men. n/t

[lovuian]

13. When we need mass transportation the most Bush cuts it

and yet IRAQ gets 141 Billion!!!

[VegasWolf]

14. Trains just don't fit into the neo conservative view of the world. After

all the wealthy already have much better means of transit
as befits their favored status with god. And the people
god is frowning on, the disadvantaged, well, that's their
problem for not being pious enough.

[Vogon_Glory]

22. The US Lacks Even The Mexican Alternative To Rail Travel

What I find incredible about the ivory-tower Booshista ideologues' desire to hatchet Amtrak is their failure to realize that the US lacks even the Mexican alternative to a passenger rail system.

True, we all know that Mexico has an internal airline network, but what Mexico also has that the US lacks is a first-class bus network that serves those towns and cities where airlines don't set down.

I'm talking about first-class bus networks, NOT converted US school busses, and not your typical North American-style intercity bus.

I've ridden on one or two of the Mexican De Luxo rides. Unlike their US dog-cart counterparts, the Mexican lines have cushy seats, leg room, video (The selections are usually awful--but they do have them) and occasionally stewardesses.

I guess hatcheting intercity public transport is another way for the Booshistas to thank rural America for being tom-fool enough to vote for them.

[shrike]

51. I've ridden Mexican buses

Pleasantly surprised. But then, I was pleasantly surprised about a lot of things in Mexico.

[Mika]

15. Trying to drown Amtrak in the bathtub

One piece at a time they will try to drown all US government in the bathtub.

[newscott]

16. The only reason I can see for * doing this

is to seel more bus tires and gasoline to run them.

[Colorado Blue]

18. True! Also regrettable: mass transit in many cities is

either lacking altogether or woefully inadequate. My home town, Denver, has become a vast smoggy PARKING LOT.

So shortsighted. We were learning about the finite and dirty nature of fossil fuels when I was a 3rd grader in the 1950's.

Oh well. Who needs trains. I'll just call for my Lear Jet:)

[Vogon_Glory]

25. You Miss The Ideologues' Other Motivation

Having the hide of a discontinued Amtrak on the wall, regardless of its effect on public ground transportation, has been a right-wing fantasy almost since Amtrak was created.

As we all know, right-wingers are exempted from considering the consequences of their ideas by Divine dispensation and also by Faux News.

[libnnc]

19. What a boon high speed rail would be for us in NC

Can you imagine being able to ride the train between the Triangle and the Triad? Linking Asheville with Charlotte? Winston-Salem to Raleigh?

My God!! I've prayed and prayed for high speed rail to come down here. It would be perfect for those of us poor slobs chained to the I-40 commute.

But we don't want people to free themselves from their SUVs do we?

[Vogon_Glory]

20. Who Wants Amtrak Dead?: Trains And States of Denial

I'm not surprised that the Rulin' Dubya Posse wants to zero out Amtrak. It's not just a continuing theme from the Reagan years, but the very same people who called for zeroing out Amtrak are also in Gee Dubya's administration.

Back when he was the head of the so-called National Taxpayer's Union, Grover Norqvist was one of the loudest cheerleaders for hatcheting Amtrak appropriations. Now he's in the White House near Dubya's ear. I wouldn't doubt that he's at it again.

The meme of so-called "empty trains" aside--and I tried making reservations on the Sunset (one of Amtrak's least-popular trains, by the way) from San Antonio to Orlando last summer, and couldn't because it was sold out, right wingie-dingies hate Amtrak because it's not "private enterprise." As if subsidized airlines are purely private ventures operating without subsidized airline terminals or air traffic control systems! Hah! Hah! Ho! Ho! Hee! Hee!

Right wingie-dingies claim that bus lines will take up the slack.
Horse droppings! Last week's issue of Forbes had a lengthy article about Greyhound's troubles and its own troubles regarding maintenance, tardiness, and plummeting levels of service and employees morale. Wingie-dingies think that Greyhound or the fragmented independent Trailways networks are going to take over from a shut-down passenger rail system?

Who's kidding who? Once again, reality-challenged Booshistas and right-wing ideologues are letting their ideology-driven fantasies supplant a look at the real world.

[robcon]

21. In a non-political world, the subsidies make sense.

But in the real world the subsidies are at least partially needed because of legislation passed through the transportation committees and sub-committees. The legislation mandates that trains must run in uneconomic areas that are part of the transportation committee members' jurisdictions. The subsidies have become a political football.

[Vogon_Glory]

24. And Also...

There's also the fact that not only does Amtrak run less-popular trains where committee chieftains hold power over the National Rail Passenger Corporation, but on some western routes, trains must "deadhead" from sections of their run where they lack much ridership--like from El Paso to its Phoenix stop--to where they do. Running through "deadhead" trains is cheaper than the typical right-wing penny pinchers' common "solution" of basing mini-train crews and equipment to only run through the profitable sections.

I know of three Amtrak trains discontinued over fifteen years ago that I still miss. I still miss the Kansas City-to-Houston Southwest Limited, the Salt Lake City to Seattle Pioneer, and the Los Angeles to Salt Lake City Desert Wind.

As a Texan, I still miss the Houston to Dallas to Denver corporate-run Texas Zephyr that was axed back in the late 1960's.

If the Good Guys had regained the White House and had swept the Connies from power in 2004, what we should have done is augment the national gas tax by a penny or two per gallon and earmark that funding to Amtrak and mass transit.

[Supersedeas]

26. How else can we afford the HUMMER tax deduction, gotta cut something

[paineinthearse]

27. * may end Amtrak's operating budget

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/02/02/bush_may_end_amtraks_operating_budget/

Bush may end Amtrak's operating budget
By Donna De La Cruz, Associated Press Writer | February 2, 2005

WASHINGTON --President Bush will propose ending federal subsidies for Amtrak's operating expenses for 2006, congressional aides said Wednesday, stirring protests from lawmakers representing the railroad's heavily traveled Northeast corridor. Bush proposed $900 million for the current budget year, and Congress ended up providing nearly $1.2 billion. In Congress, where Amtrak has wide support, it is considered unlikely that lawmakers would agree to eliminate the operating aid.

The aides, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, said they had been informed of Bush's plan by administration officials.
They also said Bush will propose $360 million for the maintenance costs of local commuter railroads, concentrated mostly in the Northeast, that use Amtrak lines and other equipment. But that money would be available only if Amtrak went bankrupt.

Amtrak supporters were frustrated by Bush's plan. "President Bush is willing to spend billions to send a couple of people to Mars, but not one dime for Amtrak's 25 million annual travelers who want better rail service to destinations on this planet," said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J. The president has expressed a wish to have manned flights to the moon and Mars.

<snip>

Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black said the railroad would not comment.

more.....

------

Associated Press Writer Alan Fram contributed to this report.

------

On the Net:

Amtrak: http://www.amtrak.com

[aquart]

28. The cupboard is bare.

And men with private jets have no need of trains.

[LisaM]

29. They seem determined to shut down Amtrak

which really pisses me off, because I love riding the train (I don't get a lot of opportunities on the west coast, but have gone from Seattle to both Portland and Vancouver BC on it.) It's maddening. Who in their RIGHT MINDS would object to efficient train service? Oh, wait....

[LiberalEsto]

37. That's one difference between * and Mussolini n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

30. More jobs lost.

Middle class workers screwed again.

[David Zephyr]

31. He's Only Doing This So One of His "Friends" Can Buy It For Nothing.

Privatize the profits and socialize the risks. --- Noam Chompsky

[El Supremo]

36. Yeah, ANSCHTRAK

Phil Anschutz could get all that equipment and put the American Orient Express out of business.

[DemoTex]

32. The Bu$h regime cares nothing for the transportation infrastructure ...

First it was out-sourcing some Air Traffic Control functions; now it is starving Amtrak. Their agenda is truly frightening.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1204897

[Vogon_Glory]

54. Do Any Repugs REALLY Care About Infrastructure?

It's not just passenger rail. Do any Repugs REALLY care about transportation infrastructure? Considering how firmly attached they are to their "no new taxes" mantra and their habit of sitting on transportation trust funds, it shouldn't be more than a decade or two before the USA is "blessed" with a highway system in as sorry a state as Guatemala's.

After enough bridge collapses like the one in Oklahoma not so long ago or after enough potholes tear out the shocks and transmissions of Republican bigwigs' Cadillacs, then MAYBE enough Banana Republicans will give something more than lip service to taking care of infrastructure. Enough highway deaths ought to inspire something beyond polemics.

I'm one of the more "conservative" posters here on DU. I do remember what a businessman said about railroads that is equally true of highways, water systems, and airports; he said that "deferred maintenance is the unreported liquidation of capital."

[Anakin Skywalker]

33. Just Drive Your Lexus SUVs Cross Country! Or Get Chauffeurs!

Let's just screw the working class who rely on mass transit.

[benburch]

34. That fucking piece of shit.

I hope somebody runs a Locomotive up his worthless ass.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

35. This affects the Northeast corridor in a big way

all the blue states. this is definitely playing politics. The Northeast is much more dependent on rail travel than the rest of the country. Just think of how plane tickets will sky rocket, and the traffic jams on 95 from Boston to DC will be horrendous.

[Anakin Skywalker]

39. And the Little Bushite Airport Security

will continue to delight in abusing their powers and feeling up certain passengers. Sick. Maybe this is his plan to force more people to buy cars to "stimulate" the economy, part of his "ownership society" creed.

[El Supremo]

41. The NE Corridor is profitable.

This will mean that all train travel in the west will be kaput.

[smirkymonkey]

38. Every F***ing Day this Joke of an Administration Does Something

to piss me off (and that's putting it nicely.)

What the hell is this country going to look like 4 long years from now???

Or even one long year from now?? I can't bear to think of it. :grr: :mad: :nuke:

[katinmn]

43. Eventually, he'll screw over every fragmented part of society

and when personally affected the people will finally get mad, rise up, and impeach Jeb in 2010.

[amazona]

40. they threaten this every year or two

Seems it has been public policy for 3 decades or more to try to kill passenger train service.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[mdhunter]

42. What is this "train" of which you speak? Is it like an SUV? (nt)

[Selatius]

44. Bush wants you to buy more cars (and buy more SUVs)

[Ruby Romaine]

45. how will they pay for all of the CSX accidents?

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:F6Esgu_fXTcJ:www.bmwe.org/News/2004/10OCT/NY%2520Times%2520101504.pdf+amtrak+csx+payout+new+york+times&hl=en
(NYT article from Oct 15, 2004)

NY Times: Amtrak Pays Millions for Others'
Fatal Errors
By WALT BOGDANICH; CLAIRE HOFFMAN, ERIC KOLI AND JENNY NORD-BERG
CONTRIBUTED REPORTING FOR THIS ARTICLE.
Published: October 15, 2004
It is no mystery why, one spring day two years ago, an Amtrak passenger train jumped the tracks near Crescent City, Fla., and skidded to a stop on its side, killing 4 people and injuring 142.
Investigators concluded that the track, owned by the big freight railroad CSX, had not been properly stabilized and that management's oversight of maintenance had been lax.
But when millions of dollars in damage claims arose from the crash, it was not CSX, a multibillion-dollar corporation, that paid them. It was Amtrak, the perennial money loser that survives only with regular infusions of cash from American taxpayers.
(snip)

[tom_paine]

46. One more point. to add to the many good ones above:

An efficent train system and tracking, no matter what I think, is an excellent hedge and long-term alternate to highways, to move large amounts of cargo and people relatively quickly.

Essential for National Security, you might say, but in so many ways other than just that.

It is insane, it almost seems as if they LITERALLY wish the infrastructure to crumble.

Is that extreme a dream possible for those Totalitarian Monsters?

Even I have a hard time believeing that, if only in would dimish their own selfish plans.

But there you have it.

The country is infinitely weaker without Amtrak to move people and keep the rails running.

God Damn those Bastards to Hell!

(I fucking hope they get the room right next to Hitler)

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

47. What do you expect from an oil industry lackey?

[HuckleB]

48. And the working poor get screwed again.

Sheesh.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. Meanwhile, European and East Asian countries are starting or

expanding their high-speed rail systems.

South Korea, Taiwan, and China all have high-speed rail systems under construction. Japan is expanding its forty-year-old system all the time.

[cire4]

52. I never understood the Republican hatred of trains....

Raygun was the first to attack Amtrak by seriously cutting its funding and putting it in the miserable state that its in today. Hell, if Jimmy Carter was re-elected, Amtrak may have been able to compete with European train systems.

Now Bush is going to do the same thing, yet completely kill off the service. And let's not forget Jeb nixed the plan to build a high speed train in Florida. Republican lawmakers in California are also fighting against a high speed train that would connect Los Angeles to Las Vegas.

Seriously, what is it about trains that pisses the Rethugs off so much?? Is it the fact that they are too "European"? Or is it due to the fact that many Republicans can't understand why anyone would want to take the train when they can hop in their big, spacious, gas-guzzling SUV?

[bunkerbuster1]

56. Republicans are usually xenophobic

and rather anti-social. They think you'll catch cooties if you take public transit.

Cars--ok, big ass Ess Yew Veez and pickemups--represent "freedom." Driving is "freedom," to them.

I've patiently explained to these doofuses over the past decade that when you're crammed into a five- or six-lane highway full of fellow drivers at rush hour, that's not "Freedom," it's "Herding." The more honest folks admit that I'm right, but usually give me a "whaddayagonnado" kinda shrug.

[BiggJawn]

53. Guess my daughter won't come to visit anymore...

She rides the rails, $34 round-trip, sometimes she gets a "special" and pays $20 for the trip. I can't drive to Chicago for that, not at no fucking $1.90 a gallon...

Amtrak has no "rights" on the trackage. When you have 90 passengers who have to sit "in the hole" for an hour, waiting on a 100-car string of EMPTIES to go rattling by....

Varnish in the hole for freight...What has this country come to?

[drscm]

55. What's the problem? Just get a big SUV and you won't need

public transportation. It would be good for the economy (a.k.a. the oil industry, the only economy that matters) and Bush's Clear Air initiative.