USAF playing cat and mouse game over Iran

[Minstrel Boy]

USAF playing cat and mouse game over Iran

By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published January 26, 2005

NEW YORK -- The U.S. Air Force is playing a dangerous game of cat and mouse with Iran's ayatollahs, flying American combat aircraft into Iranian airspace in an attempt to lure Tehran into turning on air defense radars, thus allowing U.S. pilots to grid the system for use in future targeting data, administration officials said.

"We have to know which targets to attack and how to attack them," said one, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The flights, which have been going on for weeks, are being launched from sites in Afghanistan and Iraq and are part of Bush administration attempts collect badly needed intelligence on Iran's possible nuclear weapons development sites, these sources said, speaking on condition of strict anonymity.

"These Iranian air defense positions are not just being observed, they're being 'templated,'" an administration official said, explaining that the flights are part of a U.S. effort to develop "an electronic order of battle for Iran" in case of actual conflict.

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050126-045615-4690r

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. why map anything out until after the bombs are dropped

nukulear that is, 400 megatons, war crimes

[Dhalgren]

2. Goddamned Nightmare...

I am not sure that I can stand this. I know that the country can't.

[Zhade]

30. Will America explode if we attack Iran?

NT!

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

36. no, but the world might when all hell breaks loose and you have a

man with an IQ under 85 and the emotional stability of a 10 year old pushing buttons.
:nuke: this is serious and it's our fault for allowing him to stay.

[jdj]

127. yes, god help us, lets give more credence and solidity to the

E.U.

We won't be #1 for very much longer.

Thanks, geedubya, for knocking America down into second place economically, and putting us in the realm of thirld-world dictators in the realm of freedom and human righs.

[bloom]

3. well that's great...

"...former CIA Middle East expert, said of the flights, "They are not necessarily an act of war in themselves, unless they are perceived as being so by the country that is being overflown."
    
 ...   She said her concern was that Iran "will not only turn on its air defense radars but use them to fire missiles at U.S. aircraft," an act which would "greatly increase tensions" between the two countries. "

    
As if Iran is the one increasing tensions.

How are they spinning this? Are we bringing peace and freedom? :eyes:

Stopping a nuclear war? :nuke:

[Jawja]

61. That's what we want them to do....

we are provoking them into a military action so that we will have an excuse to invade.

Then the Chimporer will go before the 'Murkin Peeple and lie his ass off about the need for more war and blood and destruction and death in the pursuit of "liberty and freedom."

We are in deep shit, folks.

[buzzard]

106. If he does this I hope millions of Americans take to the streets demanding

this imbecile in the Whitehouse and his VP resign. As a Canadian watching this I feel for half the American people who in no way wanted this moron in office.

[goodboy]

104. we're bringing freedom alright...in the form of bombs, and missiles..

they'll have freedom even if we have to kill every last one of them

[sweetheart]

4. bully and belligerance

This violation of sovereign airspace and borders is criminal. Why is
it that we don't persecute criminals?.. especially when so much is
at stake in terms of lives, the very potential that such provocation
will further drive iran towards making the strategic decision to
go nuclear.

[bemildred]

5. Deliberate provocation in an attempt to get something going. nt

[Melynn]

34. Does anyone remember the Gulf of Tonkin?

Remember how LBJ ran U.S. destroyers into North Vietnam's territorial waters then stated that the North Vietnamese deliberately and without provocation attacked American naval ships.

That incident and the congressional resolution that followed gave LBJ power to defend American interests in Vietnam is all President Johnson needed to escalate the war in Vietnam.

You don't think the Bush administration is trying the same now....do you?

[bemildred]

65. An excellent comparison.

A deliberate attempt to provoke a casus belli. I can think
of several similar incidents, the US foreign policy wonks tend to
repeat themselves.

[denverbill]

See also Hitler and Poland.

As a pretext for war, Hitler had concentration camp prisoners dressed into Polish Army uniforms, shot, and placed on German territory near the Polish border. They seized control of a radio station and broadcast in Polish, then claimed that Poland had attempted to invade Germany. The same day, Germany launched it's long planned invasion of Poland.

[NYC]

6. Launched from Iraq & Afghanistan. Look at a map of Iran.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/middle_east/iran/iran.htm

Not a great map, but you can see we've got them surrounded.

[Minstrel Boy]

8. The US now also has bases in Turkmenistan, and the fleet

in the Gulf. So Iran is surrounded on all sides.

[NYC]

15. Mission accomplished.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

40. Here is the treasure map that Dick keeps under his pillow

[Strelnikov_]

100. And Almost All On Flat Land Within 100 Mi. Of Iraq Border

Looks like the Zagros Mountains will take the place of the Ural's in Our Leaders war plans.

[NYC]

115. That's only a portion of Iran.

Is that where all the oil is?

[Strelnikov_]

119. Yes, Most Of The Oil

The natural gas seems to be located along the gulf.

Here is a map that shows fossil fuel resources throughout the region.

g

(large image, remove the extra g in .jpg to view)

[NYC]

120. Thanks.

:hi:

[Minstrel Boy]

7. I wonder. If US air space was violated by combat aircraft

mapping "an electronic order of battle," would this be regarded as a hostile gesture?

American exceptionalism is a helluva thing.

[Jersey Ginny]

9. neocons would love it

They'd use it as an excuse to continue their imperialist aggression.

[Zhade]

32. Word. Welcome to DU, Jersey Ginny!

NT!

[RCPJAP]

131. The neocons fail to realize

is that in order to promote their imperialist aggression, we are going to need a draft. So, some of the the neocon war mongerers are going to have to actually fight to promote their nutty causes. If the neocons actually pondered the possibility that they could be drafted, I wonder if they would be so supportive of the PNAC agenda Bush apparently wants abide by.

[daleo]

12. Bush would use it as an excuse to attack someone.

But not necessarily the country doing the overflights.

[leftchick]

42. American exceptionalism

drives the neo-con foreign policy.

[cliss]

10. Meanwhile, back at the Home front,

while these lunatics are enthusiastically making plans for taking the entire world hostage, the money is rapidly running out.

THE U.S. IS BROKE. We are borrowing money to fund our Insane War in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have not paid ONE DIME for these wars. And now we're looking elsewhere for more targets to bomb.

It's absolutely lunacy and this really shows you how out of their minds they really are.

[Old and In the Way]

26. If you were complicit in the deaths of 3000 Americans, what would

you do to avoid prosecution? I'm convinced that these people have decided to start WW3. They cannot afford to lose their hold on the reins of government and will do anything needed to distract the American people from their crimes.

[Zhade]

33. Very good point!

NT!

[illuminaughty]

37. Thanks for the reminder.

I've spent three years waiting for that story to go mainstream (fat chance) that sometimes I forget that there are still people who have no clue. I always felt that when the non-neos need to bring this admin. down that they would finally use the truth of 9/11 to do it.
But, you're right. If we're not just in a quagmire, but a third world war...that would stifle any coup.

[leesa]

56. It's true. They will now do anything because of what they did on 9-11.

It's why the Congress is behaving the way it is, they are accomplices and they are afraid to back off now.

[realFedUp]

128. What could have stopped Hitler?

better start thinking.

[IranianDemocrat]

11. Does the U.S. know what it's starting?

Iran already proved how "tough" it is in the brutal 8 year war, with its volunteers as young as 9 or as old as 70 fighting, running onto mine fields to help clear the way and blowing up tanks with their chests strapped with c4; in addition to organizing the Khubar towers bombing, the US marines barracks bombing in Lebanon, support and strengthening/training of Hizbollah and actually helping the first Arab group kick out Israel from occupied land.

Iran fought against US navy (with high losses to the Iranians of course) when it was 1/100th its current strength. US has not yet attacked us though we have given them far more reasons than either Iraq or Afghanistan.

If Iran shoots down the fighters when, the mullahs are throwing ourselves into the US's trap. The aircraft want to realize where all radars are and SAMS are located so as to use such weapons as Anti-Radiation missiles and such.

Even in the article it says how "badly needed intelligence" this is for the US as Iran is not your run of the mill ME military like Iraq. We dont give in to their traps and they have less knowledge (hence ability) to attack.

They know that we can cover the entire Persian Gulf with Thousands upon thousand of Cruise missiles of various types,long ranges and anti jam types.

They know we have heavy SAM belts networks in the Rocky mountain terrain accross Iran but they dont know where.

Its strategy. If they send fighters in a way that could be considered a risk to defense in anyway they will be lit up like a Christmas tree. For now though, they know the US keeps sending fighter flying along the border, crossing into Iranian airspace every now and then to test waters. They spend millions on these flights and obtain little if anything.

I hope its clearer to you now. Iran can devastate the region. Ridiculous high amount of missiles (so much that they have even equiped Hezbolla with around 15,000 short range/intermediate range).

Stock piles of Chemical and Biological weapons which are no secret. Wonder why we werent attacked but Iraq was?

Like I said, they have to be smart about it. If they shoot down a fighter flying along the borders with occasional crossing over, not only will they give away valuable asset locations and such but also give the US a petty excuse to feed their nation in propaganda to stupidly start another war with us which though would be suicide for the US would also cause the loss of life of MANY in Iran.

[Emillereid]

13. The neo-cons want chaos and fragmentation in the middle east --

the better to remold it to their image after the uranium dust and body parts settle. And before all said and done I think they will provoke the Iranians into action to which they will respond with overwhelming force.

This article keeps haunting me. I keep it in mind when I try to figure out what the neo-crazies are up to. I think I agree with Mark Levine of UC Irvine -- that maybe the mess in Iraq is just what the neo-cons actually wanted. The link for this article no longer works, but here's some choice bits:

Bush's Axis of Upheaval

Jim Lobe, AlterNet
March 18, 2003
Viewed on April 7, 2004
..... snip .......

Despite the stirring rhetoric, however, there is evidence that democracy may not be an essential part of the neoconservative grand vision for the Middle East. The breakdown of national states and the chaos that could result may be just as acceptable an alternative for the some in the Bush administration and the men who are shaping its foreign policy.

"Whenever I hear policymakers talk about the wonders of 'stability,' I get the heebie-jeebies," wrote Michael Ledeen, a "scholar" at the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) in early 2000. "That is for tired old Europeans and nervous Asians, not for us."

<snip>
Ledeen, a long-time associate of office-mate and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle, with whom he founded the right-wing Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs (JINSA), is so excited about the impending invasion of Iraq and its regional implications that he can scarcely contain himself.

"As soon as we land in Iraq, we're going to face the whole terrorist network," he told Robert Dreyfuss in the latest edition of The American Prospect. By that he meant not only al-Qaeda, Lebanon's Hezbollah, the Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad, but also Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, nations that he calls "the terror masters".

"I think we're going to be obliged to fight a regional war, whether we want to or not," Ledeen added. "It may turn out to be a war to remake the world."

<snip>
But the prospect of chaos may not be unattractive to neo-conservatives like Perle, Ledeen, Wolfowitz and his deputy, Douglas Feith.

In fact, some analysts suggest that, in the probable event that democracy does not sweep the region, the default option -- fragmentation and disintegration of Arab states -- corresponds all too neatly with the long-held dreams of some on the Israeli right. Such a scenario was spelled out in an influential article published on the eve of Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982 by Oded Yinon, who at that time was attached to Israel's foreign ministry. Published by the World Zionist Organization, the paper, "A Strategy for Israel in the 1980s," urged policies that promote the dissolution of Arab states into different ethnic and sectarian groupings. It also expressed the hope that the war then raging between Iran and Iraq would result in the break-up of the latter into at least three states for the three major groups -- Kurds, Sunnis, and Shi'ites.

According to Uri Avnery, a veteran Israeli peace activist and former Knesset member, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who led Israel's ultimately disastrous invasion of Lebanon shortly after Yinon published his piece, entertained some of the same ideas at the time.

"(Sharon's) head was full of grand designs for restructuring the Middle East, the creation of an Israeli 'security zone' from Pakistan to Central Africa, the overthrow of regimes and installing others in their stead, moving a whole people (the Palestinians) and so forth," he wrote last Fall. "I can't help it, but the winds blowing now in Washington remind me of Sharon. I have absolutely no proof that the Bushies got their ideas from him, even if all of them seem to have been mesmerised by him."

<snip>

[Zhade]

35. Emillereid, here's an alternate link for the piece.

http://alternet.org/story/15413/

EDIT: That article makes it clear, IMIO, that the PNACers have no problem with failure - they're ready with a plan either way.

What I think they haven't planned is what happens when democracy fails under their occupation, but the Iraqis succeed at self-governance once they kick us out.

[Eloriel]

72. OMG - Michale Ledeen

I did NOT realize he was co-founder of JINSA, along with Richard Perle:

Ledeen, a long-time associate of office-mate and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle, with whom he founded the right-wing Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs (JINSA)...

Ledeen, like his mentor Leo Strauss, is very taken by fascism. Strauss advocated "universal fascism" which is fascism without its anti-Semitism; Ledeen wrote a book by that very title: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/104-9984181-6091965?field-keywords=Universal+Fascism&mode=blended&tag=mozilla-20&sourceid=Mozilla-search

The NeoCons are fascists, make no bones about it.

For those who may be new, here is the definitive introduction to PNAC:
PNAC Publications page: http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

PNAC - The Links Archive
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3021&forum=DCForumID12&archive=

NEW: PNAC Links Archive (Redux)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=80

New to DU? Here's your =======> Intro to PNAC (Stephanie)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=301411

And just in case anyone needs a little more info re the Straussians, here's a start:
NEO-CONS
One more time: LEO STRAUSS AND THE NEO-CONS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7200&forum=DCForumID70&archive=yes
WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1780890#1781801

Leo Strauss and the Noble Lie: The Neo-Cons at War
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm

Straussian.net -- Leo Strauss and the History of Political Thought
(with Discussion Forums! Book Reviews and a News Blog)
http://www2.bc.edu/~wilsonop/strauss.html

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
By Jim Lobe, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2003.
http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
linked to from this thread: Has Straussian ideology permeated the GOP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2121269#2122935

Eurolegal Services - Neoconservatives
http://www.eurolegal.org/useur/usneocon.htm

[Emillereid]

103. Great links -- thanks.

[donkeyotay]

113. Good grief. What a concept

"...fascism without its anti-Semitism..."

Oh. So THAT was the only thing wrong with it...

[Sterling]

116. It's amazing what the zionist picked up from the Nazi's

It is twisted to think they could admire they Nazi's at all.

[Emillereid]

102. I for one would have the last laugh if:

"... democracy fails under their occupation, but the Iraqis succeed at self-governance once they kick us out."

And when a democratic Iraq still sides with the Palestinians, don't want us to control their oil and decides to sell their oil for euros. What that be a kicker!

But then again: reality does have a way of kicking you in the teeth!

[buzzard]

107. Then the much needed impetus for alternate energy sources and less

waste will become a reality.

[Emillereid]

111. Global warming and climate instability is one reality kick

that we can all see coming. Unfortunately the people who presently run the zoo have neo-con blinders on.

I keep thinking that if Americans don't feel the impetus to revolt over lousy wages, health care, the destruction of social security, schools and a foreign policy that will blow back on their children --- then for Chrissakes, stand up and fight for mother earth -- this is one catastrophe that is becoming so obvious.

[Just Me]

47. Sounds sick to average healthy minds,...but, 'tis true.

Divide and conquer at home and abroad.

What's really scary is that,...these wackos have over-confidence in their own ultimate victory. They are still living IN the past rather than learning from it and avoiding re-cycling it.

I swear,...they are possessed with their own greatness. Too bad they aren't on the front lines of all the battles they wage.

[bloom]

79. This is good quote to sum up their thinking

"Whenever I hear policymakers talk about the wonders of 'stability,' I get the heebie-jeebies," wrote Michael Ledeen, a "scholar" at the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) in early 2000. "That is for tired old Europeans and nervous Asians, not for us."


I wonder what plans Feith has upon retirement (this summer)? I can't imagine he would abandon this "project".

[sweetheart]

14. They know not what they do

The armed forces are so far removed from american life, on the other
side of the planet, and the neocons are so ignorant and belligerant
that they are willing to experiment with very dangerous incursions.

I am sorry for this... that suddenly your moniker is stigmatized as if
rather than being one of us democrats, by being iranian, suddenly the
propaganda stigmatizes "iranian" as the enemy... when in truth
the enemy is ignorance and poverty, rampant all over the world.

Frankly, as they are "talking" about this, it is merely sabre rattling
and hopefully the economic toll of the collapsing dollar and the
quagmire in iraq will keep the neocons busy, that the only actions
they can talk about are airspace incursions and teh threat of a
point strike bombiing.... that would surely fail and result in
so many many thousands of deaths.... that it would be unthinkable.

God willing, we'll get past this, and maybe i can visit the deserts
and mountains of iran one day as a free traveller, among friends.

May the wind of wisdom blow in to the ears of our leaders.

peace,
-s

[Eloriel]

71. Please, it's not saber-rattling

Not when they're launching all these overflights which is done for a specific purpose (planning for if not provoking war).

I also don't think the economic picture will matter -- not unless we get to the point we can't borrow any money from anywhere to push for more war. I think, frankly, that economic collapse is part of the plan. It would certainly be a terrific leveler for globalization, wouldn't it? Worried about jobs going overseas? Wellll, let us give you something to REALLY worry about.

[TexasLawyer]

76. Poverty Draft

Also, U.S. economic collapse would be a great surrogate for forced military conscription.

Can't find a job? Family going hungry? We want you for the U.S. Army!

[sweetheart]

80. Perhaps its time for a citizens arrest

Can't we just start arresting and detaining these war criminals
before they perform another heinous crime of mass murder... i'm
sickened by what these filthy vermin are up to... concerned and
sickened.

[Zebulon]

24. Don't worry about it

We'll be greeted as liberators and welcomed with open arms, and flowers strewn at our feet. /heavy, heavy sarcasm

[Jawja]

62. And we are not exactly

"winning" in Iraq. These so called "elections" are just a PR sham to keep the puppet government in place, as with Afghanistan.

How do they think we will be able to take Iran?

[Rapcw]

16. O Boy Iran is sure gonna be fun to bomb!

*sarcasm*

[Swamp Rat]

17. This SUCKS!

Bring our troops home NOW! :mad:

[Renew Deal]

19. yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.

This message paid for by George W. Bush

[Swamp Rat]

22. In ducats, gold teeth, and oil.

[dflprincess]

18. This is interesting,

my cousin is an officer in the Air Force. She was just sent over to Iraq on January 3, though she assured the family that she would be relatively safe. She's only scheduled to be there 3 months. Which I also find odd when you consider how the guard and reserve are getting stuck there for over a year, but a career officer only drops in for a brief stay.

[bloom]

81. Someone on the board was talking about

a relative that said he was to be going to Iran - a few months ago.

[BamaGirl]

122. It's not that she's an officer

Air Force deployments are 3 months, Marine are supposed to be 6 months but currently 9, and the Army, Reserves, and Guard are 12+ months. I have no idea about the Navy, probably 6-9 months right now.

[lovuian]

20. Lets face it people We are going to Bomb Iran soon

Hang onto your hats 4 more years of Bush is going to be Hell!!!

[IndianaGreen]

39. The neocons and Israel and her allies are all in favor of war

So the United States, backed by Israel, is deadly earnest about neutralizing Iran's nuclear weapons site. "The administration has determined that there is no diplomatic solution," said John Pike, president of the online think-tank globalsecurity.org.

"Like the Israelis, the Bush administration has decided that forces of sweetness and light won't be running Iran any time soon, and that having atomic ayatollahs is simply not acceptable."

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050126-045615-4690r

Do a Google on AIPAC and the Israel lobby and check out all of the agitation they did for the US invading Iraq. Here we go again!

Can I assume that after we attack Iran, that Syria is not far behind?

[0007]

58. Syria is a given and I'm surprised that the U.S. hasn't already.

There is also the administration's fear that Iran, with Syria's help, will accelerate Palestinian terrorism as Israel withdraws from the Gaza Strip, these sources said.

So the United States, backed by Israel, is deadly earnest about neutralizing Iran's nuclear weapons site. "The administration has determined that there is no diplomatic solution," said John Pike, president of the online think-tank globalsecurity.org.

[SOS]

114. Iran first...

November 05, 2002 - The London Times

Attack Iran the day Iraq war ends, demands Israel
From Stephen Farrell, Robert Thomson and Danielle Haas

ISRAEL’S Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called on the international community to target Iran as soon as the imminent conflict with Iraq is complete.

In an interview with The Times , Mr Sharon insisted that Tehran — one of the “axis of evil” powers identified by President Bush — should be put under pressure “the day after” action against Baghdad ends because of its role as a “centre of world terror”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-469972,00.html

[twaddler01]

123. Get your posters together...

I'm going all out on this one. Another war? I will take to the streets of the White House and join the crowd there...

[Gyre]

21. The neocons also misjudged Iraq badly.

I predict Tel Aviv will be a smoking hole if we make any serious moves on Iran and the Ayatollahs think they're losing the capability to launch. What would they have to lose? They already have seen what we do to toothless posers like Saddam H.. I doubt they'd have let the world in on "their progress" unless they were already where they want to be (ie, in possn of nukes and with the capability of launching them). Patriot missles have proved to be only marginally effective against A/G missles, so if the Israelis think they're immune they ought to reexamine the equation and factor in the "success rate" of the patriot batteries we've given them.

Gyre

[Tempest]

73. An Israeli attack on Iran would be futile

Israel doesn't have bombs capable of penetrating Iran's bunkers where their nuclear facilities are located.


Iran wouldn't retaliate militarily unless invaded.

What Iran would do is unleash Hezbollah and Hamas to attack Israel.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

108. "US sells Israel 500 'bunker-busters"

September 24, 2004

The announcement this week by Israel that it would buy 500 "bunker-buster" bombs from the United States concentrated the world's attention on the escalating crisis over Iran's clerical-ruled republic's alleged development of nuclear weapons, reports the International Herald Tribune.

The 2,000 pound bombs, capable of penetrating concrete fortifications 6 feet thick, are part of one of the largest weapons deals between Israel and the US in years. The bombs include airborne versions, guidance units, training bombs and detonators. They are guided by an existing Israeli satellite used by the military.

In addition to the 500 one-ton bunker-busters, the purchase includes 2,500 other one-ton bombs, 1,000 half-ton bombs and 500 quarter-ton bombs. Funding will come from US military aid to Israel.

The timing of the sale couldn't be more pointed.

Both the US and Israel have strongly objected to Iran's nuclear enrichment program, claiming it is a thinly veiled ploy to develop a nuclear strike capability, and not the energy project Iran says it is.

http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2004/0924/dailyUpdate.html?s=ent

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. Haven't seen it in the downstream media AKA American Pravda...

It must not be so. </sarcasm>

[Cell Whitman]

25. Bush is a fool.... Google -- "SUNBURN MISSILE"

Hate to say it but...If I am Iran I'd be getting with my big brother, Russia, maybe China and all the nations our "shrewd" president has named as future targets and make plans on taking us out. There is some bad ass stuff out there that can do a heap of damage. Some believe our Aircraft Carriers are floating coffins.

Who knows what's true, planted or just bullshit...but

Google "SUNBURN MISSILE"

also FYI,

As you know the article posted is from the Moon owned UPI. The site itself is a Moon operation. The World Peace Herald is like his one world herald. It's to keep people posted on his influence and efforts to manipulate the planet. Moon's operation works as a unit no matter what they tell you.

It was one hundreds web sites of his, many opened in the last couple months. He's putting it in high gear. You can watch videos of his efforts to add a theocratic body to the UN here.
http://www.iipeacecouncil.net

here's a little commentary from them on the subject...

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20041105-091105-5202r

The UN is said to have laughed at his proposal so far. Moon has at least 4 NGOs.

His org gets a firmer grip on the wheel daily and no one sees it... he is everywhere yet invisible..

read some of what has happened here:
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

[Kolesar]

64. If we had a REAL government, there would be hearings on this

The UPI citation made me wary. UPI is now a "pretend" wire service.

[Cell Whitman]

87. UPI will tell us what to think

UPI is now a "pretend" wire service.

They'll still do some good reporting. Moon's higher ups are very educated determined people. Some people foolishly think of moonies as glazed over kids selling flowers. This organization is no joke, yet no one wants to discuss what is happening, they have bought into many lies. imho.

I am sure UPI still has some independent folks. The Moon org will gradually make it what it wants. Like the Washington Times, he doesn't have to come into the office and tell them what to do he has hired Wes Pruden, nuff said. I am not saying he wasn't directly involved with making the paper, though.

here is some of that: The "Independent" Washington Times
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/2004/10/independent-washington-times.html

But, UPI will select stories and add the reporters the Moon higher ups want. Slip in a few moonites as you go along. Moon said a few years ago he didn't want his media telling people just facts, he wanted it to tell people what it all means. So UPI is developing an arm for that... It will be what is reported I would imagine, the stories they pick. Moon is defining the parameters of thinking more and more.

Also, it's the 'credibility' UPI gives Moon's other endeavors.

Here is an example of that. You have Micheal Marshall, who was the 'pastor' at Moon's DC 'church' and is now a big wig with UPI. He's the host and interviewer in what are basically moonie propaganda shows.
http://www.iifwp.org/publications/vopeace/

here Gorenfeld has a thing on Marshall's "oath" to Moon.
http://www.gorenfeld.net/blog/2003/11/new-upi-editors-journalism-oath-to-rev.html

Everything Moon does, everything he touches, every member's lives are centered on Moon and his organization being put in charge of the direction of world events.

Which in many ways he already is.

Oh and one more thing. Don't be surprised when Moon's media is critical of Bush or our nation now. Moon doesn't give a damb about Bush or conservatives or anything but Moon. He has as much to do with our nation having the government it has now as anyone. Anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to see his media attack what he created. Moon wants Korea to be the center of the world and he isn't what I would call a balanced character.

Reported both by U.S. News & World Report and in Robert Parry's “Dark Side of Rev. Moon,”

From Parry: By the mid-1980s, Moon’s Unification Church had carved out a niche as an acceptable part of the American right. In one speech to his followers, Moon boasted that “without knowing it, even President Reagan is being guided by Father (Moon).”Yet, Moon also made clear that his longer-range goal was the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and America’s democratic form of government. “History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him.” Moon said, speaking of himself in the third person. “That is Father’s tactic, the natural subjugation of the American government and population.”
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon3.html

Moon is getting the last laugh.

[Tempest]

74. Iran & Sunburn Missiles: The weapons that could defeat the US in the Gulf

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7147.htm

The Sunburn can deliver a 200-kiloton nuclear payload, or: a 750-pound conventional warhead, within a range of 100 miles, more than twice the range of the Exocet. The Sunburn combines a Mach 2.1 speed (two times the speed of sound) with a flight pattern that hugs the deck and includes “violent end maneuvers” to elude enemy defenses. The missile was specifically designed to defeat the US Aegis radar defense system. Should a US Navy Phalanx point defense somehow manage to detect an incoming Sunburn missile, the system has only seconds to calculate a fire solution –– not enough time to take out the intruding missile. The US Phalanx defense employs a six-barreled gun that fires 3,000 depleted-uranium rounds a minute, but the gun must have precise coordinates to destroy an intruder “just in time.”


The Sunburn’s combined supersonic speed and payload size produce
tremendous kinetic energy on impact, with devastating consequences for ship and crew. A single one of these missiles can sink a large warship, yet costs considerably less than a fighter jet. Although the Navy has been phasing out the older Phalanx defense system, its replacement, known as the Rolling Action Missile (RAM) has never been tested against the weapon it seems destined to one day face in combat.

[Cell Whitman]

78. yep, that's what I am talking about, Bush is a fool

among his other "attributes."

Maybe you should start a thread on this subject with that article. People need to know what Bozo is getting us into.

When the country wakes up to who Team Thief really is, we don't want the smoking gun to be a flaming Aircraft Carrier.

It's hard to know what may be planted bs though. It's hard to know what toys our defense department may have developed for the child king to play with...

[Tempest]

84. Already a thread, from January 18th

http://tinyurl.com/48dtf

[Cell Whitman]

88. thanks, should have figured, newbie way way behind. n/t

.

[Tempest]

89. Not having the search feature limits you

Throw a few bones to DU and you'll have access to a limitless number of sources and cites. Makes for a great research tool.

BTW, belated welcome to DU! :)

[Cell Whitman]

92. I'll do that

thanks. I have been like a kid in a huge mall all turned around here so far. Has to be helluva research tool.

[Cell Whitman]

90. I imgine this one's been by too.. google "supercavitation iran"

that's a wild tale also...

[Tempest]

99. A wild tale, but one U.S. intelligence admits is true

According to Scientific American, the new generation of torpedos, some believed capabale of carrying nuclear warheads, are surrounded by a "renewable envelope of gas so that the liquid wets very little of the body's surface, thereby drastically reducing the viscous drag" on the torpedo.

<snip>

In 1997 Russia announced that it had developed a high-speed unguided underwater torpedo, which has no equivalent in the West.

Code-named the Shkval or "Squall," the Russian torpedo reportedly travels so fast that no U.S. defense can stop it.

<snip>

The report that China purchased some 40 Shkval torpedoes from Russia in 1998 has been confirmed by U.S. intelligence sources. Pentagon officials also confirmed that a Chinese naval officer was on board the ill-fated Russian submarine Kursk to observe firings of the Shkval.

The Shkval rocket first came to light in the Western press in April 2000 when Russian FSB security services charged American businessman Edward Pope with spying for the U.S. According to Russian intelligence sources, Pope obtained detailed information on the rocket-powered torpedo.

A FSB statement said it confiscated "technical drawings of various equipment, recordings of his conversations with Russian citizens relating to their work in the Russian defense industry, and receipts for American dollars received by them."

The 6,000-pound Shkval rocket torpedo has a range of about 7,500 yards and can fly through the water at more than 230 miles an hour. The solid-rocket-propelled "torpedo" achieves this high speed by producing a high-pressure stream of bubbles from its nose and skin, which coats the weapon in a thin layer of gas. The Shkval flies underwater inside a giant "envelope" of gas bubbles in a process called "supercavitation."

http://www.ruddynews.com/archives/articles/2001/4/23/220813.shtml

[Cell Whitman]

101. I've read several places they sold a version to Iran and China.

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memorial/Warpdrive_underwater.htm
In recent years, cash-strapped Russia has openly offered the Shkval for sale at international arms shows in Abu Dhabi and Athens, a development that causes grave concern in the Pentagon. Well-placed sources say that several Shkvals have been sold to Iran, for example.

Of equal worry is an August 1998 report that China purchased around 40 Shkval torpedoes from Kazakhstan, raising the possibility that Beijing could threaten American naval forces in a future confrontation in the Taiwan Strait. News from China (reportedly confirmed by U.S. Navy sources) that a Chinese submarine officer was on board the sunken Kursk has also raised alarms. He was there, they say, to observe the test of a new version of the Shkval.

[Tempest]

112. Even if Russia didn't sell any to Iran

China would to protect their oil interests.

[yinkaafrica]

117. wow, that is one crazy torpedo

[Old Mouse]

27. "Cat and Mouse" is such a nice term for "act of war"

Next comes "hide and go seek" for WMD, our favorite game. Is this blatant military excursion into a sovereign country covered under the War Powers Act?

[AZCat]

46. Don't forget "roll over and play dead - permanently"

The game we are currently playing with the populations of both Afhganistan and Iraq.

[bloom]

85. See this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x101036

The Coming Wars - Seymour Hersh writes about that.

What the Pentagon can now do in secret.

"Rumsfeld will become even more important during the second term. In interviews with past and present intelligence and military officials, I was told that the agenda had been determined before the Presidential election, and much of it would be Rumsfeld’s responsibility. The war on terrorism would be expanded, and effectively placed under the Pentagon’s control. The President has signed a series of findings and executive orders authorizing secret commando groups and other Special Forces units to conduct covert operations against suspected terrorist targets in as many as ten nations in the Middle East and South Asia.

The President’s decision enables Rumsfeld to run the operations off the books—free from legal restrictions imposed on the C.I.A. Under current law, all C.I.A. covert activities overseas must be authorized by a Presidential finding and reported to the Senate and House intelligence committees. (The laws were enacted after a series of scandals in the nineteen-seventies involving C.I.A. domestic spying and attempted assassinations of foreign leaders.) “The Pentagon doesn’t feel obligated to report any of this to Congress,” the former high-level intelligence official said. “They don’t even call it ‘covert ops’—it’s too close to the C.I.A. phrase. In their view, it’s ‘black reconnaissance.’ They’re not even going to tell the cincs”—the regional American military commanders-in-chief. (The Defense Department and the White House did not respond to requests for comment on this story.)

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact


Talks quite a bit about Iran....

[lovuian]

28. At first I thought Israel was going to attack Iran but now

its looking more and more like Bush is going in!!!

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. There isn't any doubt. He isn't talking all this "freedom" shit

for nothing. The final case will be made at the SOTU, if he spends a lot of time on Iran and nukes we are in deep shit.

[leftchick]

43. very deep shit!

Good God, I hope with every fiber of my being that there are some people with common sense left in congress that can stop this. Surely there are repukes who recognize this bullshit provocation for what it is.

[jmcgowanjm]

70. Countdown to Looking Glass 1984 Glenn Scott

I can imagine news reporting an ambulance has
just pulled up to the WH.

Rumor that Cheney has stroked.


But if the whole neo-conservative rationale for the invasion
and occupation of Iraq was to facilitate the expansion of
greater Israel and control a key energy source in the Middle
East, how is it possible for Washington to even envision
a retreat?

It's also taken for granted in Baghdad that the Shi'ites will
deliver a Kurdistan to the Kurds, composed of six of Iraq's
18 provinces - with incendiary consequences. On January
16, the Allawi regime and the Iraqi electoral commission
allowed 100,000 Kurds expelled from oil-rich, multi-ethnic
Kirkuk by Saddam Hussein to vote in the province. Sunni
Arabs were livid: Kirkuk is currently out of the
Kurdish autonomous region, and Kurds dream of it as
the capital of a future Kurdistan. Immediately afterward, the
head of the Arab Unifying Front, Wasfy al-Assy, said his
coalition had pulled out of the elections.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GA27Ak07.html

"The current phase is to show the United States that
we're serious," a Turkish government source said. "After the
Iraqi elections in January, the Turkish military will be ready
to move." It would be a major offensive in northern Iraq to
prevent Kurdish militias from controlling the area. The
Turks were very concerned by the reported Kurdish effort
to squeeze out ethnic Turks from Kirkuk.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=2630

[peacebird]

109. Will congress stop this? no way -

Won't bush claim that the previous "permission slip" for the war on terror in Iraq includes automatic permission for carrying the war on terror to other countries. I'm sure Gonzales agrees with that interpretation....

How low will we go? When will the madness end?

[Tsiyu]

31. Iran: U.S. Tops List for Threatening World Peace

TEHRAN (Reuters) - President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites), responding to comments by a senior U.S. official that Iran tops the list of world troublespots, said Wednesday the United States was the country which most endangered global peace.


Tensions between Tehran and Washington, which broke diplomatic ties in 1980, have heightened in recent days as U.S. officials have taken an increasingly tough line on the Islamic state.


"You look around the world at potential trouble spots, Iran is right at the top of the list," Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said last week on the day George W. Bush was sworn in for a second four-year term as president.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050126/wl_nm/iran_usa_khatami_dc_2

[IndianaGreen]

38. This is the same provocations we committed over Iraq

which began during the Clinton Administration to pave the way for a war. Why do you think Big Dog said Iraq had WMDs and the Big Female Dog voted for IWR? They wanted this war as much as Bush, they only disagreed with the way the occupation went.

The height of pride is to plan for a war in Iran while you are losing your pants in Iraq.

[TomClash]

41. Some of this is obvious . . .

For instance, at the start of a war C3 (C "cubed") is always the main target.

[TomClash]

44. What are the consequences?

China recently signed a long term oil and natural gas pact with Iran. China also said it would veto any Security Council Resolution sanctioning Iran. How would they respond to an attack? Perhaps they won't show up at the auction.

Also, the window is closing on the Iranian attack. Esfahan begins uranium conversion and heavy water production will begin at Arak this year. I suspect fuel rods have already been delivered to Bushehr. What are the environmental consequences of such an attack?

Russia built those facilities in part. Are they going to stand idly by while they are destroyed? No wonder there is a budding Franco-Russian military alliance.

[MARALE]

59. China will react

They have been buying up our debt. I think they will hold it over our heads and ruin the economy if we go into Iran. This will not just be a physical war, but an economic one as well.

[TomClash]

66. I'm not sure

Is that really in their interest?

[jmcgowanjm]

121. You've got a substitute for the oil/lng China will lose?

Saudi Arabia was supposed to be the world's last source
of unused production capacity. At this point, there seems to
be no surplus oil production capacity anywhere in the
world.

http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/current-events.html

We won't have to guess when Peakoil gets here.

A politico/social/military event will announce it
to the World.

[mordarlar]

68. Russia has stated unequivocally that they would respond to an attack on..

Iran. And we know what cool weapons they have.

[Old Mouse]

95. The first reactions will be economic

Unlike the United States, most countries are reluctant to start wars. They are unpopular with their citizenry.

The question is will the Saudis go along with this democratization plan or will they see it as too much of an indirect threat to their own sovereignty. A prolonged trade and economic war with China, the EU and Saudi Arabia could devastate our already crumbling economy.

Other than that we would most likely see a return to cold war era tactics, with nations such as Russia offering discreet indirect support, such as money, arms and intelligence data, to Iran.

[IndianaGreen]

110. Consequences? Iran has long range missiles that can strike anywhere

in the region, even Israel.

[markus]

45. A Shia Iraq, without a pro-Western Iran, would be a failure

eom

[rfkrfk]

48. how do we know, that this story is true?

could be all BS,
with the intention of instilling doubts about the
effectiveness of the Iranian military.

[Just Me]

51. I have no doubts the PNACers are going all the way.

They are, after all, benevolent belligerents in every sense.

Our poor children. :cry:

[jmcgowanjm]

67. Because it fits the US MO precisely

The Iranian mil is at least as effective as the
IraqMil was before 1990.

It has missiles capable of hitting Israel
and make no mistake Israel will be hit.
The Turks, if they do not have 40k troops in NIraq
by this time, will immediately move them into
Kirkuk.

Iran has AWACs which must be destroyedfirst.
The destruction of the AWACs itself will
be seen as the precursor of attacks.

The Island of Abu Musa/ Straits of Hormuz
must be taken out as well.

Iran has been redlined by the world. Any attack
will be seen as Poland090139.

The response will be appropriate.

[dbt]

49. Not to worry. The Democrats will oppose another bu$h war!!

They will rise as one and fearlessly proclaim "no more!" We are SO fucked...

:freak:
dbt

[msongs]

140. hahahahahahahahahahahaha with john kerry leading them hahahaha

voting for it before it can vote against it.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Massachusetts]

50. I wish litle king george would stop watching the "Dirty Harry" movies

:wtf:

[LynnTheDem]

52. What would we do to a country doing that to us.

gee I wonder

[ally_sc]

53. yeah

you know i heard we have had special ops over there for weeks...i guess they let the press have this so it would not be such a shock, lol. however,when you ask what we would do if Iran would fly over our air space...cover your head...

[LynnTheDem]

54. Esp considering Iraq did absolutely nothing whatsoever to us & look what

we're still doing to them.

bush doing another BRING IT ON, this time to a nation that CAN actually defend itself and has allies willing to do likewise.

The man is insane. He & his entire Cabal are mentally sick. You can't NOT be mentally sick and do what they're doing.

[leesa]

55. Invading airspace is an act of war...any retaliation will be seen by the

world as defensive. Another war crime in the making, folks.

[jman0]

57. Remember Iran Air Flight 655 downed by USS Vincennes - 290 dead

"SEA OF LIES - The inside story of how an America naval vessel blundered into an attack on Iran Air 655 at the height of tensions during the Iran-Iraq War, and how the Pentagon tried to cover its tracks after 290 innocent civilians died. Newsweek, July 13, 1992"

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/vince.html

This is relevant today.
Read the article, i know the site looks a little cheesy but it's a great article.

[PsychoDad]

60. A very sad fact...

The nation of Iran is being threatened and harrased by a rouge state who's beligerance is based upon the fact that it owns stockpiles of WMD unmatched by any other nation in the world. A rouge state that indulges in torture, rape and occupation. A rouge state run by a non elected cabal of crazed plutocrats.

Welcome to imperial Amerika

[porkrind]

63. Great. So now we're picking a fight.

So our stated objection with Iran is that they are being aggressive (creating/buying nukes), so we will attack them first. To me, this seems like we are the aggressors here.

I think the administration wants to provoke them to attack us, and thus have a "mandate" to wage full-scale war on them. Same recipe they always use.

[cthrumatrix]

77. more like following the PNAC agenda -- what did we expect?

[adigal]

69. Many of the generals realize what a mistake Iraq was

does anyone think they would have the guts to stop this? What if they just said no???

[atreides1]

75. And Most of Those Generals were Retired

Many of the generals you speak of were retired either shortly before the Iraq invasion or shortly after. Those generals and admirals that are still on active duty, are no better then the generals and admirals who were loyal to Hitler.

They support Bush without question, and will follow any order that he issues, and that would also include putting troops in the streets
of America to silience dissent. These generals and admirals, like Myers and Pace, are no longer bound by their oath of allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, they no longer truly care about America, because like their Republican counter parts in Congress, they are loyal to the party and to their leader.

So don't count on the generals and admirals that are currently serving to do what is right and honorable.

[DistantWind88]

91. Which ones were retired?

[Earth_First]

82. Is it just me...

or does this sound like some pretty serious events unfolding here?

[mordarlar]

93. Nope it is not just you

[sendero]

83. This #$%#$ just boggles the mind..

... isn't there anyone in the upper echelons of the military that will stand up and say "wait a minute here"?

[Canuckistanian]

86. Hmm, Iran... doesn't Iran have oil?

Why, I think they DO!

[seasat]

94. Iran's government was starting to moderate.

If the news reports are to be believed, Iran's government was starting to moderate. The elected leaders were gaing more power and the Ayotollahs were losing it. However, we wented and started the Iraq war. Now the Ayotollahs are reassenting themselves. With this new revelation of flights and covert operation in Iran, we're going to push more of the Iranian people into supporting the Ayotollahs and a theocracy. If we'd left everything alone, there would be some secular democracies in the Middle East.

[Johnny_Ramone]

96. Has the United States

actually ever won a war on it own (since the revolution)? Sure, we won the Second World War but obviously had allies. I am not big on military history but I know we did not win in Korea, we certainly did not win in Vietnam, took a whooping in Somalia and it looks like we are getting our noses rubbed in the dirt in Iraq (if you think in terms that this Iraq thing has been going on since Desert Storm). The only 'victory' I recall is blowing some shit up in Libya. And speaking of illegal incursions-didn't we about 100 years ago chase some bandits deep into interior Mexico, that could have been considered an act of war?

[Minstrel Boy]

97. You forgot Grenada! n/t

[DistantWind88]

98. Panama

Grenada
GW1
Bosnia
Kosovo

Now, GW1, Bosnia and Kosovo we fought with allies, but we were the preponderance of combat power in all of those conflicts. BTW, by your way of reckoning, we haven't ever lost a war on our own either...

[Sterling]

118. Ad Mexican-American war and the war with spain.

nt

[DistantWind88]

124. War of 1812 as well...

[kuozzman]

105. That's exactly what we did with Iraq. n/t

[BiggJawn]

125. Trying to atract a SAM...

"Templating" my ass. They're shaking their dicks in the Iranian's faces, hoping to get a missile for their efforts.

Then the Dumb-ass-in-Cheap will go on Teeeeee-Veeeeee and announce:
"Mah Feller Murkans, We'uns have been attacked agin. Ah'm directing our Air farces to carpet bomb Tehran and other hotspots of Tyrrany in Eye-Ran..."

Wonder how Rumsferatu would take it if the RCAF decided to cross the St. Lawrence "just to check-out" our air defenses? Bet he'd be big-time pissed, wouldn't he? Why should the Iranians feel any different?

[Supersedeas]

126. we have to know which targets and how to attack them---YOU DO???

[AuntiBush]

129. You know...

I've been blacking-out media news due to their extreme overwhelming bias leans toward the right wing-nuts. I think I'll start tuning in again, because I got to thinking... maybe that's what they were hoping for. And it's somewhat worked.

Time to "Watchdog" that pundits. Only 1 obstacle for me. I can't watch them due to a disease I've been suffering from since late November 2004. It's called "Faux-itis." :puke:

I'll try not to eat before watching, and keep heavy objects from arms reach. :puke:

[teryang]

130. This is conventional intelligence gathering

...it may or may not be effective depending on whether the Iranians have learned anything about aerospace warfare in the last 25 years.

One needs to keep in mind that bombing is primarily effective in destroying infrastructure but not necessarily the enemies capacity to resist, even conventionally. The Navy is the primary threat to Iran having the ability to cut off the lion share of commerce. Bombardment has several disadvantages:

1) You cannot take over a country by bombardment. You must introduce ground forces.

2) Destroying Iranian infrastructure hurts the world dependent on energy sources as much as it will hurt them.

3) Cutting off commerce with Iran will earn us additional enemies who are major players in the world balance of power. Therefore, Iranian military resistance in whatever form it takes will be well supplied and financed.

4) Iran is huge and our logistics capability and manpower resources are taxed already. A surgical strike or strikes will accomplish little and cost us dearly on the international political and economic stages.

[RockStar]

132. US jets 'flying over Iran to spot potential targets'

US jets 'flying over Iran to spot potential targets'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0%2C12858%2C1401310%2C00.html
Julian Borger in Washington
Saturday January 29, 2005
The Guardian

The US is increasing the pressure on Iran by sending military planes into its airspace to test the country's defences and spot potential targets, according to an intelligence source in Washington.

The overflights have been reported in the Iranian press and the head of Iran's air force, Brigadier General Karim Qavami, declared recently that he had ordered his anti-aircraft batteries to shoot down any intruders, but there have been no reports of any Iranian missiles being launched.

"The idea is to get the Iranians to turn on their radar, to get an assessment of their air defences," an intelligence source in Washington said. He said the flights were part of the Pentagon's contingency planning for a possible attack on sites linked to Iran's suspected nuclear weapons programme.

"It make sense to get a look at their air defences, and it makes the mullahs nervous during the EU negotiations ," said John Pike, the head of GlobalSecurity.org, an independent military research group.

The flights come after reports of American special forces incursions into Iran. However, former US intelligence officials have said they believe the incursions are being carried out by Iranian rebels drawn from the anti-Tehran rebel group, the Mujahedin-e-Khalq, under US supervision.

The US military denied the reports. "We're not flying over frigging Iran," an official said, suggesting Tehran was making up the incidents to attract international sympathy.

[tlcandie]

133. Hahahahaha! How 'friggin' inept!!!!

<snip>
The US military denied the reports. "We're not flying over frigging Iran," an official said, suggesting Tehran was making up the incidents to attract international sympathy.
<snip>

Next thing you know they will want a mental health evaulation made mandatory because they are seeing things!!

[paineinthearse]

134. Who is Global Security?

Mission
GlobalSecurity.org is focused on innovative approaches to the emerging security challenges of the new millennium. The organization seeks to reduce reliance on nuclear weapons and the risk of their use -- both by existing nuclear weapons states and those states seeking to acquire such capabilities. GlobalSecurity.org aims to shift American conventional military forces towards new capabilities aligned with the post-Cold War security environment, and to reduce the worldwide incidence of deadly conflict. The organization is working to improve the capabilities of the American intelligence community to respond to new and emerging threats, reducing the need to resort to the use of force, while enhancing the effectiveness of military forces when needed. GlobalSecurity.org also supports new initiatives utilizing space technology to enhance international peace and security.

Staff Senior
François Boo
Tim Brown
John Pike
Michael Smith
Charles Vick

Fellows
Richard Bell
Andrew Fois
Robin Leeds
George Smith
Jayson Silva
Piers Wood

[CrownPrinceBandar]

135. One step closer to the rapture...................

It seems that GWB is hell bent on getting us into a pan-Asian shooting war. Iran is particularly odious in that there was a portion of Iranian population that was starting to re-warm to the US and back off the "Great Satan" stigma of America. GWB has blown that all to hell and will be remembered as the man who touched off the spark that set the whole Middle East alight. Theocracy meet theocracy.

[hippiechick]

136. Ok, please tell me what the US would do

if some other country started 'intelligence gathering' fly-overs of the states ? (I mean, aside from the fact that they wouldn't FIND any intelligence in Washington DC)

Shrubby, Dick, Condi and just about everyone else in this Mis-Administration would be on the doorstep of the UN screaming 'foul play'.

Gawd, I can barely stand the hypocrisy anymore. :puke:

[bin.dare]

137. here is one for you MB --- fast moving clouds !

Friday, January 28, 2005. Page 3.

Jet Scrambled to Intercept 'Fast Cloud'

The Associated Press An Air Force fighter jet was scrambled and dispatched to the border with Lithuania to intercept an intruding aircraft, which later turned out to be a thick, fast-moving cloud, Itar-Tass reported.

Anatoly Lobsky, an aide to the Russian Baltic Fleet commander, told Itar-Tass late Wednesday that a Su-27 fighter was ordered into the air near the Baltic Sea enclave of Kaliningrad after radar spotted a light plane entering Russian airspace from Lithuania.

The plane found nothing after reaching the border area near the Lithuanian city of Kibartai, Itar-Tass said.

The fleet's air defense command post and military officials in Lithuania and Poland later revealed the intruder was actually a thick cloud that was being driven by a strong wind, Lobsky said.

Lithuanian military spokesman Ricardas Uzelka said Lithuania had no knowledge of the incident Wednesday. "No Russian planes entered Lithuanian territory, nor did planes enter Kaliningrad air space," Uzelka said.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/01/28/015.html

[DemoTex]

138. Unlike Iraq, the Islamic Republic of Iran has an air force.

The main non-western suppliers of aircraft and support have undoubtedly been China with their deliveries of F-7M (MiG-21) and and Russia with the MiG-29, An-74, Su-24MK (some ex Iraq AF) and Il-76TDs (some ex Iraq AF).

Mid 1991, during the 2nd Gulf War a lot of Iraq Air Force pilot fled to their neighboring country Iran, supplying the IRIAF with a large number of aircraft including Mirage F1BQ/EQ (which now forms at least one sauqdron at Mashhad), Su-24MK Fencer-Ds, MiG-29 Fulcrums, Su-20s, Su-22M Fitters, Su-25 Frogfoots, MiG-23s in several configurations and a number of Il-76s. At least the Mirages and the Su-24MKs gained operational status.

http://www.scramble.nl/ir.htm

CHECK SIX!

[ultraist]

139. Iran dismissive of US military threats

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/47B14909-8CDB-49AB-B4EC-D6483C16CF2C.htm
Iran has said a US military strike against it would be a strategic blunder but brushed aside tough talk from Washington as psychological warfare rather than a real threat. Iran's Intelligence Minister Ali Yunesi called US threats a bluff but warned that Washington would make its biggest mistake if it attacked Iran.

"The Americans are stupid, but not so much to make the same mistake which they made in Tabas," said Yunesi, referring to a failed US military operation in 1980 to rescue hostages held in Iran, according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA).

US President George Bush said on 17 January that his administration would not rule out the possibility of using military force against Iran over its controversial nuclear programme and Vice-President Dick Cheney said on Thursday that Iran was right at the top of the list of world trouble spots.

Espionage

IRNA quoted Yunesi as claiming that US planes had been detected over Iran as "part of the espionage which they carry out" and warned that "every action has a reaction". He added that the planes were "nothing new".Rice said US differences with Iran extend beyond the nuclear spat. Yunesi also said US commandos had not entered Iran for reconnaissance missions. "We are eagerly looking for the Americans commandos to come to Iran since they are chicks which would rapidly be picked up by our eagles," he said, according to IRNA.Secretary of State designate Condoleezza Rice made clear that American differences with Iran go well beyond its nuclear programme, saying that it was "really hard to find common ground with a government that thinks Israel should be extinguished".

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