Parents of soldiers bash Bush

[Sleepless In NY]

Parents of soldiers bash Bush
Inaugural costs decried on LI
BY MARTIN C EVANS
NY NEWSDAY STAFF WRITER


In November, Jeanette Urbina's soldier son telephoned from Iraq with a simple request.

It was cold there, Army Spc. Wilfredo F. Urbina told her. Could she send him a sweater?
Three days later he was dead. An explosive device had sliced into the Humvee he was in while he was patrolling in Baghdad.

Wednesday, parents of several Iraq veterans said they are angry that more than $17 million will be spent on security for Thursday's inaugural festivities for President George W. Bush, while troops he sent to war still lack sufficient armor to keep them alive.

"What is the life of a soldier worth?" asked Jeanette Urbina, of Baldwin, whose son was killed Nov. 29. "Is one or two thousand dollars too much to ask? They are fighting for democracy and freedom. They need more protection."

"How dare he," said Dorine Kenney, of Bay Shore. Her son, Spc. Jacob S. Fletcher, was killed in Iraq Nov. 13, 2003, when a bomb detonated near a bus he was riding in.

"He's paying so much for his safety, but what about the troops?" Kenney said. "What about the steel for the trucks, for the security?"
Kenney said she decided to speak out when she and Jeanette Urbina encountered each other by chance while visiting their son's graves, which lie within steps of each other at Long Island National Cemetery in Pinelawn.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-liinaug0120,0,4371572.story?coll=ny-homepage-big-pix

[bluestateguy]

1. These people obviously don't get it

Bush and the neo-cons view the soldiers as expendable cannnon fodder that can be easily replaced.

Bush on the other hand is "special" because he was chosen by God.

[Cooley Hurd]

5. Vanity Fair's Judy Bachrach gets it:

a must-watch clip-> http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/view/1695

[ibgrandma]

38. Oliver Willis clip

I really want to see the clip referred to, but the link just takes me to his site, but I see no video icon. I even clicked on "send this video to a friend" and tried to send it to myself, but no luck!!

so where can I see the video?

[realisticphish]

46. are you running a recently updated browser?

that may be the problem, and i havent found the video anywhere else :shrug: sorry


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[SlavesandBulldozers]

63. nice sig pics

maynard and dime.

[realisticphish]

66. thanks

dime was playing in my town when he was shot, just 10 minutes from me at the Alrosa Villa. if it weren't for a ministry concert next door to me, i would have been there too :scared:


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Mojorabbit]

53. I had to use eplorer to view it

It would not come up when I used netscape.

[renaissanceguy]

8. Replaced by a draft.

There's no way in hell the neocons will be able to wage wars with the number of troops we have. WE CANNOT afford anymore wars. We cannot deal with REAL threats because we overextended ourselved in Iraq.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16781662

[Steely_Dan]

49. Can You Say...

"Draft?"

[drdtroit]

31. What is it Poppy Bush calls people?

HFU's? Human Fodder Units.
These people are despicable.

[GOPBasher]

32. Perfectly said. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Are soldiers now the modern day slaves?

[alexisfree]

57. The close minded AMERIKANS are so stupid. If they would have open

their eyes sooner maybe their sons, daughters would be alive. I would have personaly saw to it that my son, cousin, etc go to canada than go to die for nothing but a game war to bush

[alittlelark]

2. Is there anybody out there........................

Damn.... these are the stories that used to affect us.......

[Diane R]

3. oh, it effects me, all right.

My brother was killed in Vietnam. I know this story by heart.

[jasop]

4. Please someone.. unite us and tell us what to do

[Sleepless In NY]

6. I wish the Veterans Associations all over the country

would unite and really go after bush on this one. I was hoping democrats would have stayed away from the inauguration ceremonies today in protest of the troops not being properly equipped and D.C. Homeland Security funds being misused for this 3 ring circus of a "coronation" But since that didn't happen, I think the only ones left with some clout would be VA Organizations, maybe they can help these families. It's a real disgrace.

[Divine Discontent]

7. first,

that fox news thing is hilarious, truthful, and must see tv.

second, even some of the military I know are torn between
supporting Bush as CIC and as a failure for his decision to invade.

it's heartbreaking... to me, if I was in.... I'd be doing EVERYTHING
to get the heck out.

[renaissanceguy]

10. It's a colossal failure

as it was from the beginning. If we stay there, we'll be there for another ten years. The Middle East has historically been unstable. And I hate to say it, but no outsider is going to change that.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16781662

[wildwww2]

15. Correct,but until we can stop Bu$h Inc. from making money with their

war crime it will not stop. Our troops lives mean nothing to this cabal. They are just good cannon fodder as stated previously in this thread. We don`t even have a democracy any more. And when we did it was started from within our country. No one invaded us and set it up like Bu$h and his nazi`s are lying about doing. The last thing they want is a democracy in Iraq. Profits from oil and rebuilding what they have blown up. Is their main concern. Bu$h`s goal to end tyranny. Sounds so much like Hitlers bullcrap. I wish people would wake up and quit being stupid. But since I don`t spout god ever other sentence. People will not listen to me.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. Exactly. Remember how Israel rolled into Lebanon to shut down

the terrorists and restore order? It took them 20 years to get out, and they were just next door.

It's too bad the Uncle Remus stories are so politically incorrect these days, because the story of the tar baby is particularly apt. The more we fight it, the more stuck we will become.

[Mizmoon]

39. Ten Years? Try Fifty years.

That is from the mouth of an office friend of mine who was there for the invasion.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

41. My rejoinder...

When the optimists start talking about stabilizing Iraq.

"Of course, military occupation has worked out so well for the Israeli's in the West Bank, right?"

They usually just stand there and scratch their butts.

[not fooled]

64. American troops will be in Iraq on the day I die...

...very simple: the PNACers have no intention of leaving--their goal in going in was from the start to set up *PERMANENT* bases and occupy the country.

Åmerica will be there for DECADES; this was always the plan. Plain and simple, if unknown to the majority of Americans.

[leesa]

42. Do they remember that they swore to uphold the CONSTITUTION

and NOT the CIC? They would be violating their oathe if they supported this CIC who lied to get them into an unjust war.

[oneighty]

22. VA organizations

VFW club to which I used to belong is full of flag wavers and war lovers, many of them although eligible for membership have never ever been in combat.

They cheer our kids off to war from a safe alcohol fogged distance.

Do not depend on them to go against Bush*.

180

[saigon68]

23. I agree--- there are a lot of Wannabee 'COMBAT VETERANS"

Who spent their time sorting mail in Fort Dix New Jersey--- who love the CHIMP and would get on their KNEES in an instant to "service" the APE

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reprobate]

28. You don't understand. There IS no Democratic Party anymore.

Only the Corporate Party of America. With a few scattered liberals still stuck in it.

[pokercat999]

58. National democrats are cowards except

for a very small handful, like Boxer, Rengal, Conyers and a couple of others and even they were at the coronation I guess.

There is no way any REAL Democrat holding public office should have attended the coronation. All Democratic Senators should filibuster every day from now until Bush is impeached and turned over to the Hague for trial. What could they loose their "office", it doesn't belong to them it belongs to the people and the people are not being represented. It's obscene that Kennedy, Kerry, etc have been in office so many years. There are better Democrats than these I see their posts here EVERYDAY! Vote against all Democrat incumbents next primary!

As you can tell I'm sick of these imposter's that have turned our troops into BABY KILLERS AGAIN!

This war is illegal, troops that don't lay down their weapons and refuse to kill innocents are just as guilty as Bush and Co. We just learned from Abu Grabe that following illegal orders is a court martial offense. My plea is for all of the lower ranks to just refuse to kill anymore! I think there are millions of Americans that would rush to their defense if say several thousand soldiers just stopped and refused to go on any longer obeying illegal orders.

one word edit

[Jamastiene]

11. Let's start a campaign

and send all of our Senators and Representatives pictures or links to the pictures of children in Iraq who were bombed. You know. The things the government doesn't really want the people of our country to see. There are some really really graphic ones to pick from on www.thenausea.com :puke:(CAUTION:Extremely nauseating and graphic photos contained on this site) if you can stand it. I think it would make more of an impact than just words. Especially if those placards that people have with slogans on them at televised (CSPAN at least) protests were used the same way. Actual war pictures should be used instead of a bunch of incoherent slogans that don't affect people any more. Maybe some people would think twice before supporting war. Well, some of those indecisive people would any how. People like Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and well, most of the repugs and unfortunately the Dems would at least know they are being exposed and looking mighty bad.
If not the pictures of the children, there are plenty of pictures of US soldiers in really bad shape, both emotional (crying) and physical. That might get some repugs. They can be affected if you use the right tactics. So far no one has. Just gotta find the right buttons and push away.

[maxrandb]

45. Even Better Would Be to Send

Every one of the able body'd, 18-35 year old sons and daughters of the 535 members of the House and Senate; and also those children of the White House cabinet members to Iraq!!

Guess how quickly that would put an end to this shit!

"Hey Media"- KISS MY FUCKING ASS!!!

:mad:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paleocon]

13. Yeah, that's it...

They must all enjoy killing people! :think:

GW offers them the best chance to go and do just that.

Better they're over there killing people then over there right?

Let's just hope "over there" isn't just practice for "over here"....

:tinfoilhat:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wildeyed]

16. Huh?

"Maybe they enjoy killing people?" I hope I am misunderstanding what you are saying here. Sounds like you are accusing all veterans who didn't vote like you of being murderous monsters.

[Redstone]

19. I would suspect

that the ones sho "enjoy killing people" are a VERY small minority of the ones who have ever ACTUALLY killed anyone.

I would bet $100 that 90% plus of the veterans who want more war were NEVER personally in combat.

Trust me, the experience of taking another human being's life, up close and personal where you can see, hear, feel, smell, and taste it is an experience that VERY FEW people want to repeat. Barring a number of psychotics, of course. There are always some of those.

Redstone

[diamond14]

25. my cousin was killed in Vietnam

Silver Star, Purple Heart, 19 years old, DEAD....


he was drafted....he was an only son...his Dad died from grief shortly afterwards...

[StephanieMarie]

36. My uncle was mentally destroyed in Viet Nam.

[llmart]

12. And yet........

overall, many of these military people supported Bush and voted for him. I just cannot get choked up about this until I know who they voted for. I'm sorry, but if you voted for him, then buck up and quit your whining about your dead sons. If you voted for Kerry, than you have my deepest sympathies.

[Paleocon]

14. Not to be a smartass...

but what exactly did Mr. Kerry say he was going to do?

Bring the troops home immediately?

No... He said he would do the same thing, only better.


<AND THE AWARD FOR WORST CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT GOES TO...>

[CTLawGuy]

50. I agree

but what can you do, as a candidate, when you voted for the war yourself?


It's particularly sad that he voted for the war considering his experience in Vietnam, and his realization of the immorality of that war.

[Paleocon]

54. I agree...

very disappointing.

Even more disappointing when we had that huge issue to exploit and nominated a compromised candidate that couldn't capitalize on it.

[stanwyck]

26. I understand your feelings

keep in mind that not only did many of us NOT vote for Bush, but neither did our son or daughter who is in the military. My son is a Marine who has been to Iraq and will return in two weeks. He voted for Kerry. His twin sister campaigned for Kerry. My husband and I voted for Kerry. We're not the only ones. However, all the deaths count, no matter the personal politics. This is not a just war. It's a greedy imperialistic grab for control of a region rich with oil. We have an administration of oil men. Our sons and daughters are not being used in the name of freedom, but in the name of oil companies and the 1% of our wealthiest citizens.

[llmart]

60. I never said that ALL military people voted for Bush......

but the majority of them did and that's a fact. I know that there are military people out there who preferred Kerry and voted for him, but as a rule, they are in the minority.

At least you and your family are not sheep. I work with a woman whose son just got shipped to Iraq and she walked around with several Bush/Cheney stickers on the back of her jacket during the election. Then she wanted me to feel sorry for her when she told me at Christmas that her son got called up. He's 38 years old. These are the people I can't feel sorry for.

[othermeans]

51. I agree with you 100% I saw a woman whose son had died say that if it

wasn't for George Bush she would be wearing a burqua. My thoughts are that if you are so ignorant as to believe tripe like that you get what you deserve. Just don't ask the other informed people to sacrifice their sons and daughters for your idiotic logic.

[wildeyed]

17. So sad.

This issue exposes, more than almost anything, Bush's true values. Me first me first me first! I need beautiful balls and adulation, while the kids actually doing the heaving lifting are cold and pointlessly dying.

[deadparrot]

18. Glad to see more parents speaking out.

The more they turn on *, the better.

[no_to_war_economy]

20. these parents know there is blood on *'s hands

[Benhurst]

24. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

[Massachusetts]

21. MAKE SURE THIS HAPPENS DUERS

"Here sir, the people govern".

Alexander Hamilton, speech to the New York Ratifying Convention, June 17, 1788

[lebkuchen]

30. Are any parents protesting while their military child is still alive?

The lack of armored vehicles is well known to everyone. Rummy admitted incompetence on keeping the troops secure. Every parent w/a child living and fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan should be protesting Bush's failure to secure their son/daughter. The effort could mean the difference in the safety of their child.

[Historic NY]

52. Bush rides in new $10 mil. dollar Caddy, troops die in flimsy Hum V's.

While the cost is not stated Mr. Bush's previous Caddy was estimated to cost approx. $10 million to be built. It is equipped with state of the art Kevlar armor, armored floor, gun posts, high tech communications gear, run flat tires. The vehicle forms a cocoon around the president to protect him from a hostile outside world. The troops on the other hand still keep getting killed while driving Hummer vehicles which are built from light weight aluminum and metal composites and fiberglass. Some have taken to adding plywood and scrap metal to keep from being injured. This is happening while the Defense Dept. promises that newer better armored vehicles are on the way, some day.

[gratuitous]

33. What's with the headline?

I know that headline writers need to fit to the space, but many of them are also the laziest writers on the planet. How is Bush "bashed" by raising what look to be legitimate questions about his behavior and its divorcement from reality?

[GOPBasher]

34. Gee they're touchy.

Man, just 'cause Bush doesn't give a half of a shit if their children live or die, they go and get their pants in a bunch! Calm down, people; it's not like he did something awful, like take away government support of religious institutions! Man, they get so upset just because Bush lets their children die for no reason. <sarcasm off>

[StephanieMarie]

35. Can you imagine 1366 mothers marching on Washington

demanding the truth about why their sons/daughters had to die? They should every one of them chain themselves to the White House fence. Now that would make a statement about this illegal war.

[leesa]

43. Republicans who say they suffered from "sour grapes"...one of their

favorite anti-rational rationalizations.

[Chipper Chat]

40. I noticed that this post has been freeped at least three times.

I'm sure this has come up before, but is this site in danger of being shut down by "Merlin Rove" or others for "unAmerican activities" or other crap? I'm sure we're all being monitored by the someone in the basement of the White House. What are the contingency plans for "us" to meet up somewhere - like maybe a cave in Missouri?

[Tsiyu]

65. Do you care?

Of course this site is monitored. So what? Welcome to 2005, friend. Everywhere you go in public these days, you are being monitored.

But you still speak out if you have anything left in you.

I think enough Repukes are fed up with this war, when * starts going into his plans for Iran, we will see a backlash. Either that or we support the troops who back out and march on our legislators doorsteps until they hear us and respond as human beings rather than power-grubbers.

I am struck as I read the OP at how anti- life Repukes are. They aren't pro-life at all. They are liars in the most heinous sense of the word.

[Chipper Chat]

67. It is the "ostrich head-in-the-sand" syndrome for RW Pukes.

Even in my own extended family I can see it. As long as "we" have a job, kids, sufficient money, our church, Walmart, and Bush in the White House providing us security - there is no need to concern ourselves with the rest of the world. "We" just shut it all out. Why worry or feel guilty about it? Scary.
Oh, about the monitoring, I freak out everytime I go in a public restroom anymore. I know Karl will "see what I got" from his TV screen in the East Room.

[maxrandb]

44. Sorry, but

"Why do these people whose children have been killed in this war for "freedom and Democracy" hate "Amurika" so much?"

<---Rush brainwashing off--->

:crazy:

[The_Casual_Observer]

48. Is bush's life more valuable than any of these soldiers?

I would say no. It was shocking to see on 60 Minutes, the shoddy transport vehicles that the troops are forced to use, they add steel plates themselves and call them "Frankenstein Trucks". They have been sent to occupy a hostile foreign country, where they can't even speak the language. You can't help but feels sorry for these guys, they have been mislead, screwed with, and fucked over by the bush administration.

[MaraJade]

68. I wouldn't say 'NO'. . .

I'd say HELL NO.

The people who are stuck dealing with the mess that the Chimp created
in Iraq and Afganistan are so far above him, so much better than him!
Theirs are the lives that need protecting--that MUST be protected!
The people who are putting their lives on the line deserve better treatment than they've been getting.

[geniph]

55. It just shows how much BS this 'support our troops' rhetoric is

They not only don't give a shit about the ordinary combat soldier, they are slashing veterans' benefits ruthlessly. Support Our Troops, my ass.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2986641&mesg_id=2986641

[txaslftist]

56. My uncle's name is on that long, black wall...

Jefferson said we should avoid foreign adventures and entangling alliances. Glad I belong to the party of Jefferson!

Support our troops! Bring them home!

[geniph]

61. One of my fellow delegates in Boston

was showing up at all the Veterans for Kerry events my husband and I were attending. I asked her if she was a veteran, and she said no, her father was an MIA from Viet Nam. He disappeared when she was like three.

She was totally heartbroken when Kerry lost.

[kskiska]

59. The armor on *'s limo

was 4 inches thick.

[Cori Cycle]

62. This is not the full story

because I was watching Democracy Now, and saw a mother who has her son in Baghdad, and came to see the ceremony. She was well dressed and seemed to have a lot of money & intelligent. When I hear the parents of the soldiers saying things like "Support Troops", I thought they were being dumb, but seeing the mother facing camera and hear that she supports the war and president in calm manner, it made me think. May be that there are a large part of America I know nothing about. And they made their voice known by voting for *. Well, that's a part of what happened right? Enormous number of Christians who didn't bother to vote in 2000 came out to vote, overshadowing the effort made by youth.

Maybe I was wrong to assume that a rational person would agree with my political view, and those who support war was just misguided and need to be educated.

At any rate, the coverage of the ceremony, although not perfectly balanced, was quiet impressive as Amy Goodman tend to broadcast stories that supports her political belief. This particular show I watched was much better because it made attempt to cover the whole story, not just one side (which is my side) of the story.

[hail ripley]

69. Next stop - Iran

There's already a bill before Congress: HR 282 Jan6, 05


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.282:">To hold the current regime in Iran accountable for its threatening behavior and to support a transition to democracy in Iran

It's called the "Iran Freedom Support Act"

How many more troops will we support to death?