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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 09:17 AM
Original message
Shortage of armor may greet guard
http://www.post-trib.com/cgi-bin/pto-story/news/z1/12-12-04_z1_news_02.html

Local Indiana National Guard troops are likely to face shortages of armored vehicles in Iraq.

In the wake of a Tennessee National Guard troop telling Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld that troops are scrounging landfills for scrap metal, Indiana National Guard officials concede troops may be armoring their own trucks after they touch down in Kuwait.

“I do not have a sense of what the local procurement process is or what has been shipped,” said Lt. Col. Barry Richmond, operations director with the Indiana National Guard.

<snip>

Richmond stressed that Indiana National Guard officials have faith in the U.S. Department of Defense ability to outfit its troops as they move into the combat zone. The trucks assigned to the 113th Engineering Battalion have already been shipped, without armor. The unit commander has been assured there are an unspecified number of armored Humvees waiting for them, from the unit they are replacing.

...more...

here's a couple opinion pieces today regarding armored vehicles:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0412120228dec12,1,6950166.column?coll=chi-news-col

(free registration or try www.bugmenot.com)

Just answer the question, Mr. Rumsfeld

WASHINGTON -- If you don't like the message, knock the messenger, as an old spin doctor's motto goes. That's how some people are reacting to a soldier's question that knocked Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld off his game during a town hall session in Kuwait last week.

Spec. Thomas Wilson, a scout with a Tennessee National Guard unit, asked Rumsfeld why soldiers still have to fortify their canvas-covered Humvees with "hillbilly armor," scrap metal and ballistic-resistant glass that they dig out of landfills for protection. After a brief moment of stony silence, the comment brought a spontaneous eruption of "hooahs" and applause from other troops.

It also brought a remarkably condescending response from Rumsfeld, who may have become too accustomed to treating reporters like annoyingly curious children to quickly shift to a tone appropriate for the combat men and women under his command.

"You go to war with the Army you have," he said, "not the one you might want or the one you might wish to have at a later time."

That was a curious comment, considering how much time President Bush's Defense Department has had to build up to "the Army we might want."

...more...

and http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vppay124081263dec12,0,1417569.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

Pentagon adept at deflecting truth

The top military official in the richest nation on Earth did not reassure soldiers en route to fight - and possibly to die - in Iraq that they would have sufficient equipment for the battlefield.

Posing a problem clearly on the minds of his comrades, Spc. Thomas Wilson asked U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld why were they so poorly equipped with armor. "Why do us soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-arm our vehicles?" the Tennessee Guardsman asked. "And why don't we have those resources available to us?"

Rumsfeld asked Wilson to repeat the question. This tactic usually gains Rumsfeld an advantage when he uses it with the press. But Spc. Wilson, no matter who suggested wording for the first question, seized the advantage with even greater force.

"A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon," the airplane mechanic said. "Our vehicles are not armored. We're digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass ... picking the best out of this scrap to put on our vehicles to take into combat. We do not have proper armament vehicles to carry with us north."

...more...
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steely Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Issue them some tomatoes.....
then they can use Rummy for target practice.
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tinymontgomery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. This line really make reporters look stupid (and they are)
"Rumsfeld asked Wilson to repeat the question. This tactic usually gains Rumsfeld an advantage when he uses it with the press. But Spc. Wilson, no matter who suggested wording for the first question, seized the advantage with even greater force".

Soldiers are smarter then the national press. The press is so useless!
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. I hope they were not still...
expecting the flower-throwing, happily liberated Iraqi people to greet them.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
:kick:
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Paleocon Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hopefully we'll soon see a shortage of willing, warm bodies...
I can't imagine why anyone would want to enlist or re-enlist at this point....

Good thing we have such porous borders, we can import our army! :think:
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SouthernDaisy Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. ARMORED humvees were sent back to the states
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 12:07 PM by SouthernDaisy
Repost 'cause this needs to get out...

Occasionally our local news gives us facts the networks chose to ignore. Last Wednesday, Dec. 8, was one of those instances---our local news,, WAVY (TV), spilled some smelly beans. They offered proof armored humvees were sent back to the states!

I couldn't believe my eyes and ears as I watched the story. I haven't seen this in print anywhere, so I emailed them and asked for a transcript.

Here's the transcript, exactly as emailed to me from WAVY (TV) News desk:

>>>>
STRAIGHT AHEAD AT 5:30--DISGRUNTLED SOLDIERS COMPLAINED TO DONALD RUMSFELD
ABOUT LONG DEPLOYMENTS AND A LACK OF ARMORED VEHICLES AND OTHER EQUIPMENT.
MORE ON THAT NEXT ON WAVY NEWS 10 AT 5:30.

NOW TO OUR OTHER TOP STORY.. DO TROOPS IN IRAQ HAVE WHAT THEY NEED TO WIN THE FIGHT.. TONIGHT THEY SAY NO.. AND THEIR SAYING IT TO THEIR BOSS IN AVERY PUBLIC.. AND UNUSUAL DISPLAY. IT ALL HAPPENED WHEN DEFENSE SECRETARY DONALD RUMSFELD TRAVELED TO KUWAIT TO GIVE TROOPS GOING IN A PEP TALK.. IT TURNED INTO ANYTHING BUT.

WAVY NEWS 10'S MILITARY REPORTER PATTY CULHANE JOINS US WITH OUR TOP STORY.

IN THE MILITARY... IT JUST ISN'T NORMALLY DONE... CALLING OUT THEIR BOSSES IN PUBLIC.. WITH CAMERA'S ROLLING... IT GOT SO TESTY AT ONE POINT THAT RUMSFELD TOLD ONE SOLDIER TO SETTLE DOWN.

IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND THE SPACE BETWEEN THESE SOLDIERS AND THE SECRETARY
COULDN'T BE FARTHER APART... BUT IT SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR WITH THIS QUESTION

(S.O.T)
'why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap
metal and compromised ballistic glass to armor our vehicles and why don't we
have those resources readily available to us...

(nats - applause)

(s.o.t) Rumsfeld
'it's a matter of production and capability of doing it.. as you know..you
go to war with the army you have not the army you want.'

RUMSFELD SAYING THE ARMY JUST DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH ARMOR IN STOCK..

BUT WHEN WAVY NEWS TEN TRAVELED TO KUWAIT LAST MARCH WE SAW THIS... LINE AFTER LINE OF FULLY ARMORED HUMVEES AND TANKS BEING SENT BACK TO AMERICA WITH THE TROOPS THAT LAUNCHED THE WAR.. BEING REPLACED BY UNARMORED HUMVEE'S COVERED IN CANVAS.. AT THE TIME WE WERE TOLD WITH THE MISSION TURNING TO PEACEKEEPING.. SO MUCH ARMOR WOULDN'T BE NEEDED...

BUT WHEN WE GOT IRAQ.. WE FOUND THIS... JUST ONE BAY AVAILABLE TO ARMOR UP THE HUMVEE'S... ONLY ABLE TO DO ONE EVERY COUPLE OF DAYS... AND NOT ENOUGH METAL TO DO ALL OF THEM.. WE TRAVELED IN ONE THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROTECTION...

THE SOLDIER'S TOLD US THEY NEEDED MORE... WE PUT THAT QUESTION TO SECRETARY RUMSFELD LAST APRIL

(S.O.T) FILE TAPE - 27:34
'first of all average non commissioned officer not saying what your saying.'

THEY SAID THAT TODAY.. WITH A QUESTION.. AND THE THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE THAT FOLLOWED.. RUMSFELD'S FINALLY TELLING THEM EVEN UNARMORED HUMVEES CAN BE BLOWN UP

(S.O.T) handlesman
'troops are 100 percent right.. ever since this war they've been misled on
just how long they would stay how difficult the insurgency would be.. what
equipment they would need to deal with it.'

A PENTAGON SPOKESMAN SAYS THE SOLDIER'S WILL NOT BE PUNISHED FOR SPEAKING
OUT. THE TOP GENERAL IN THE REGION SAYS HE HAD NO IDEA TROOPS WERE GOING THROUGH LANDFILL LOOKING FOR ARMOR.

>>>>

You can check this info with WAVY in Norfolk, VA for authenticity.
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