Reply #69: I've spent days thinkng on those issues Will [View All]

[MadHound]

And sadly, my conclusions all boil down to "two party/same corporate master system of government"

What effects would a Dem majority have in Congress? Gee, looking back at those halcyon times in the ninties, what did we get? Laws like NAFTA, welfare "reform", the '96 Telecom Act, and on and on. Not much there, just a kinder, gentler form of corporate rule.

As far as hearings go, what hearings? Already Pelosi is saying that impeachment is off the table<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2849270> And I don't hear much stirring about any other sorts of hearings.

And how in the hell will this make matters "more fertile" for progressives? Hell, liberals and progressives have been marginalized in the party for years, told to shut up and vote straight party line. You think that a victory of centerists, DLCers, and torture apologists is going to suddenly make it easier for those of us on the "lunatic fringe" to get into office. Please, pull my other leg:eyes:

I have thought about all of this, and more. And frankly I've come to the conclusion that it is past time for everybody in this country, right, left and center to take a moral stand. For otherwise, like with any unruly child, if you keep awarding members of Congress with your vote, no matter what atrocious, immoral, outrageous issues they support, they will only continue to support such issues, and in fact come up with even more outrageousness.

Frankly, if we had chastised these people for their stances on the Patriot Act and the like back in '02 and '04, we would have had a crop of House and Senate members who would have been fighting this torture bill now with everything they have. Instead, we were urged to go along to get along, and reward the bad behaviour with our vote. Now, we're on the verge of being a country that engages in torture and is quickly becoming a pariah state. And once again we're being treated to the spectacle of the Dems rolling over, not putting up a fight. On a basic moral issue like torture! Yet you urge us to continue to reward this behaviour? What, you want to see the Dems fail to put up a fight some more, over even more basic human rights, like freedom of speech or a state sponsored religion? Sorry, I don't buy that line.

It's a good thing that you're a journalist Will, not a psychologist. Any basic psychology class will tell you that if you reward bad behaviour, such behaviour will only increase and become worse. This doesn't only apply to individuals, but to social groups as a whole.

Think about it.