Reply #25: I'll explain further -- for whatever good it may do... [View All]

[Sparkly]

You wrote, Olbermann's accusation of "total omniscience" shows that Rumsfeld is not building straw men. Reading widely on DU will show that Olbermann is thoughtful, tame, and common. He doesn't address the substance of Rumsfeld's argument. He is offended and looks for further offense. Vyan stands upon Olbermann's shoulders. They are not straw men. They exist.

A "strawman" is a false representation of an opponent's point of view. Rumsfeld (and you, apparently) erects a fake opponent who "hasn't learned history's lessons," who "blames America first," who needs to be "educated" about our country and the military, who suffers "moral or intellectual confusion," who need to be told there are "serious, lethal, and relentless" threats, because supposedly, they are not "well recognized or fully understood."

THAT is the strawman. It is NOT that the administration has no opponents, and are making up an idea of opposition -- they have plenty of opposition (the majority of the country now). It is that they mischaracterize this opposition, making up a FAKE counter-position, in order to knock it down.

Are we clear on "strawman?"

"I further consider my original point to be conceded as well." I assume you mean you are ceding it, whatever it was. My original point stands: Despite the classic rightwing spin and denials, Rummy did say what it's now claimed he didn't say, and Olbermann was right on point.

Are we clear on why your first post was laughably "classic" to me?

The rest of your argument on this comes from the same OMNISCIENT point of view as Rummy's. If you believe he and the rest of the cabal have been RIGHT on everything (or anything), then it's just a matter of everyone else becoming "moral" about it, "unconfused" about it, and having confidence that eventually, they'll all come to "understand" the TRUTH that you know and they don't. In other words, you're right, and they're wrong, period.

That's unmitigated BULLSHIT!! And I dare say Rummy and the entire machine (save Chimpy, perhaps) KNOWS it.

Now for the nonsense about "loyalty."

Rummy: When a database search of America's leading newspapers turns up literally 10 times as many mentions of one of the soldiers who has been punished for misconduct -- 10 times more -- than the mentions of Sergeant First Class Paul Ray Smith, the first recipient of the Medal of Honor in the Global War on Terror;
There is no controversy or ongoing developments around Paul Ray Smith; there's plenty of controversy, issues worth discussion, and ongoing news when soldiers are accused of misconduct. (Would you like to compare mentions of Cynthia McKinney's incident with House security, or perhaps the girl missing in Aruba, with either of these?)

Rummy: Or when a senior editor at Newsweek disparagingly refers to the brave volunteers in our armed forces -- the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines, the Coast Guard -- as a "mercenary army;"
Did you read the entire quote, and do you know who said it? It was Eleanor Clift, commenting on McLaughlin Group:

I think if the policymakers and the elites who decide these issues about going to war -- if their sons and daughters were on the line and faced the risk of being drafted, they would think a little longer and a little harder before they committed us to a war of choice. So I agree with him to that extent.

But I think what we're coming to grips with is the fact that we actually have a mercenary Army. And it doesn't have a nice ring to it. We call it "volunteers," but we're basically paying people to serve their country. And if you're going to pay people and have a mercenary Army, you're going to have to pay the market rate. And so the bounties are going up -- more money for tuition, higher enlistment bonuses -- and I think it's appropriate.

http://www.mclaughlin.com/library/transcript.asp?id=481
This quote was selected because when taken out of context, the word "mercenary" can have negative connotations.

Rummy: When the former head of CNN accuses the American military of deliberately targeting journalists;
Full story here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/022405A.shtml

Rummy: and the once CNN Baghdad bureau chief finally admits that as bureau chief in Baghdad, he concealed reports of Saddam Hussein's crimes when he was in charge there so that CNN could keep on reporting selective news;
It’s not as if the administration didn’t have this much info and more. Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A26857-2003Apr14¬Found=true

Rummy: And it's a time when Amnesty International refers to the military facility at Guantanamo Bay -- which holds terrorists who have vowed to kill Americans and which is arguably the best run and most scrutinized detention facility in the history of warfare -- "the gulag of our times."
It may hold such terrorists, but they are not the only people it holds. Guantanamo is a legal black hole, with enough “grey” area to enables this administration to get away with skirting international law. AI has every right to say what they did.

“Morale crushing crap,” you say – I say what’s “morale crushing” is sending the troops into an endless, ill-conceived battle, misusing them, expecting them to solve problems that can’t be solved militarily, using them for political purposes, and then pretending that LYING about it all is better than telling the truth. Some may feel better hearing lies at this point – that’s understandable. But as citizens, we need to hold to account those who got them into this mess, and insist on a solution to it.

The rest of your post is more ranting a la Rummy as if nobody else knew there’s a threat, and then exaggerating it to ridiculous proportions. The fact is, these reckless, irresponsible, ill-conceived and just plain STUPID policies have made the threats worse, but you've swallowed a heaping helping of FEAR.

Here’s an analogy for how I see your rant:

“There are cockroaches. They need to be exterminated. Therefore we must blow up the houses in the neighborhood to rid ourselves of the cockroaches. What? You think that’s a bad idea? So you obviously LIKE cockroaches! Don’t you realize how MANY cockroaches there are? You must have no idea what it’s like to turn on the lights and see them scatter – it’s disgusting! And they spread filth! It’s a threat! They even poop! They could take over your household and evict you!! Next thing you know, your great-grandchildren will be their slaves, serving them crumbs of bread on little tiny platters!! I’d sure hate to see that happen to you!!!"

Fine, there are cockroaches; there are threats. Acknowledging they need to be dealt with EFFECTIVELY, and acknowledging the truth that this administration has done the OPPOSITE of that -- making them far, far, far WORSE -- is not being unaware that there is any threat at all.

Finally, however, I am really NOT scared that Muslims are going to take over the United States and force generations of women to live under sacks, etc. I am absolutely AMAZED that anyone is THAT scared!!!!

I feel sorry for you. I truly do.