Reply #8: ! [View All]

[SlipperySlope]

Well, let's think about this, and take care to compare apples to apples.

"Cars that get 50mpg"


Compact hybrids get good mileage, but so do compact cars in general.

While I don't doubt that hybrids get *better* mileage, there has been plenty of reporting about how the EPA numbers for hybrids are particularly overstated. On other words, hybrids don't have as big of an advantage as people have been led to believe.

For 2008 the EPA will be adjusting their mileage numbers. Most cars are expected to drop 12%, while hybrids will drop 20% to 30%.

It's hard to directly compare the top two hybrids, the Insight and the Prius, directly to any other cars. Neither of these has a traditionally powered version, and Honda and Toyota have thrown almost every mileage increasing trick into these vehicles (wheel skirts, lightweight materials, CVT). In short, there is no "apples to apples" vehicle we can compare them to.

For the number three hybrid, the Honda Civic Hybrid, we do have a good comparison since Honda makes a traditional version as well. Here are their EPA City/Highway mileage numbers:

Civic Hybrid = 48/47
Civic Gasoline = 36/44

So there is a difference there, although we know it is exaggerated.

Question: Is the total cost (including cost of ownership) with this difference?


"cost far less than other compacts when fuel costs are factored in"

I don't think the data backs up this assertion.

Edmunds.com found that gas would have to cost $5.60 per gallon for a person who drove 15,000 miles a year for five years to break even.

Forbes.com calculated the break-even for a Hybrid Accord at 100,000 miles.

Msn.com calculated the break-even for a Hybrid Accord at 120,000 miles.


"cut environmental pollutants in half"

Not necessarily, especially if you consider the entire impact from mining the resources to disposing of the car at the end of life. This article claims that a Jeep Wrangler has lower environmental impact than the Prius:

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3528666&fSectionId=1645&fSetId=381

If we focus only on tailpipe emissions, yes, most Hybrids are low-emission SULEV vehicles that produce 90% lower than average emissions. But so are the BMW 325i, Chrysler Sebring, and Buick LaCrosse. SULEV isn't a unique characteristic of Hybrids.

"From an engineering point of view Toyota is doing just fine. If GM is incapable of engineering successful hybrids, that's another issue."

We are all entitled to our opinions. When I see a Prius I see a clever piece of engineering, that still burns gasoline, is overpriced by a few thousand dollars, and that is no better to the environment than a traditional compact.

"onedit: GM's Saturn Vue is coming out in 2007. An example of a car which makes no sense, but GM is producing anyway. :crazy:"

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Vue Hybrid makes no technical sense. If GM wants to copy something, I'd love to see them copy the Volkswagon TDI.