Reply #91: I'm going to be as careful as I can with this reply... [View All]

[heliarc]

Porn seems much more multifaceted than it is presented in any of the discussion on the various threads here.

Saying that Gay Porn isn't degrading to women is a choice bit of reduction because Misogyny (and Misanthropy) is an infamous problem among Gay and Lesbian populations without their respective body of porn even entering the discussion... to me it almost stands to reason that by design, Gay porn is degrading to women (because they are excluded as detestable), and Lesbian porn degrading to men (because they are excluded as detestable as well). This might seem crazy to Gay and Lesbian people reading this, but to a Bisexual it makes perfect sense.

But it is true that the audience for both of these forms is NOT the opposite sex, and that is precisely the problem. Camp, is of ultimate concern to the Porn viewing public. One might assume that the audience for heterosexual porn is both sexes but overwhelmingly, the audience for heterosexual porn, is heterosexual men.

But it stands to reason that "degradation" is very often a psychological and physical affect of sex that people seek out for their own sensory, and psychological reasons. People here might be so unwilling to accept this that they discriminate on the people who practice such "degrading" sex, but the fact still remains that there are women (and men) who "enjoy" being degraded or for various reasons seek it out. It also is a very real and important psychological fact that objectification is aphrodisiac and that sex in detachment (various forms) is ideologically extended by thought... (deSade's mirrors, or the multiplication of taboos, transgressions).

I can just imagine all of the holier than thou on DU responding to this with disgust, but believe me it was my surprise the first time I dated a woman who WANTED me to hit her, or call her names or the like. I wasn't willing to... my own choice... , but the way that I might choose to refuse her requests might be more judgmental and degrading to her then complying.

Some may call this "pathology" or whatever other clinical thing they are most likely unqualified to call it, but the truth of the matter is that it may in fact be more degrading to the person who requests degrading treatment to impose some sort of moralizing attitude without fully understanding their desires or their sexual past. I have come to find that it has sometimes been a female partner of mine's fantasy to be mistreated as a way of owning, or taking control of the experiences they've had, and listening to her and exploring those dark places with her can sometimes be an avenue to empowerment, and real care... and love even... when there is mutual respect in parallel to playful exploration.

But none of that really speaks to porn as the issue, because it is true that porn is generally stupid. The fakery, the robotic poses, and mechanical shots that are formulaic. Bad Directing, horrible acting, lame scenarios. Those alone are degrading to humanity overall... But it's more impossible to understand the motivations of an actress or actor who participate. How much money has changed hands and to whom. What the distribution schemes are, and who is enjoying what sum of the profits. Then, even in the fakery of the scene, is there any enjoyment? Does the man or the woman in a scene actually even enjoy it? Would it be more degrading if they did, or didn't? Those questions are so complex as to make your head hurt, and the likely truth of it all is that the journey of a sex worker who chooses to be a sex worker is so brave and when they are able to achieve self-respect it is so strong, as to put most of us and our own robotic sex lives spent in missionary to shame. That is not to say that there haven't been plenty of sad cases of women who weren't able to cope, or survive that business, but that is true of mainstream hollywood as well.

Porn, in my opinion is a very cheap form of theater. Theater from some perspectives might be degrading to almost everyone simply for being fake (play)... but I think it shows us ourselves no matter how poorly performed, and that is of value.