What information can an employer give to an unknown caller about an employee?

[Inchworm]

This came up today. I'm sure it was just a bill collector being shifty, but what information was the boss legally allowed to divulge?

:shrug:

State of NC if that matters.

[T Wolf]

1. Whatever the law says, the reality is that bosses can do whatever they want. What are you gonna do

complain to your boss?

[Inchworm]

9. Oh no

I already did complain to the boss. I know she just answered questions, and we figured it was nothing. The thing is... it coulda been ex-wife, evil brother, some trixy collection agency, anyone. I'm more careful with other people's information than that.

I just wanted to know. I mean, what if she gave my Social Security Number?

:shrug:

[MattBaggins]

36. They can't do whatever they want.

If they violate the law they can be fined and/or sued.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Whether or not you are/were an employee. That's it unless you've signed a disclosure.

[MidwestRick]

5. Yep

Thats' it.

[Inchworm]

10. That is about what was given, cool

Time period of employment as well, but I'm sure that goes along with that.

[mikelgb]

3. My guess is they can give anything and aren't required to give anything.

[Inchworm]

11. Makes sense

nt

[Kookaburra]

4. Not much

the date you were hired and the date you left.

[Inchworm]

12. Thanks

nt

[Craftsman]

6. My brother does hiring and firing for his company

He will only confirm dates of employment. Then he tells them it is company policy not to discuss any other info on current or former employees. And unless you are authorized to do so tell them nothing and give them HR's number.

[Inchworm]

I'm pretty sure this is how it was handled

save the HR part.

Thanks

[donco6]

25. That's what we do, too. n/t

[RKP5637]

35. That's how it was in all the companies I've worked. And only HR could give

out info., never a boss.

[Cleita]

7. Technically, all you are supposed to give is the fact that the employee

is employed there and the date of hiring and the date they left if applicable. No more information should be given to anyone. Letters of reference should be only given my mail if solicited by mail on their letterhead, with the title of the person from the company seeking a reference. No one else needs any other information. You can't even give a bad reference. If you have nothing to say that is nice, you merely need to give the dates of employment and what their capacity, job title and description of job was.

[Inchworm]

17. ok

thanks

[JuniperLea]

24. In CA they can ask if you would rehire...

But that's it, other than dates of employment, job title, duties.

[Lance_Boyle]

41. In NC they can ask 'is ***** eligible for rehire?' n/t

[guitar man]

8. I don't know about the law

But my workplace has a strict policy about divulging personal info about our employees, we just don't let anything out to anyone about our people.

My boss and I like to play "phone tag" with bill collectors we will route their calls to several "departments" when it's actually just him and I sending them back and forth between the two of us and playing different people each time we answer....I love the broadcasting biz :evilgrin:

[Inchworm]

18. Hehe

I would love that. I'm guessing this is what the caller was.. a mere bill collector.

I once divulged too much information about myself to one thinking they were a lawyer handling a totally separate case I was involved in. It took me 3-4 long conversations to realize I'd been tricked.

:crazy:

[guitar man]

29. Yeah it's fun

We both have experience doing voiceover work from our days on the production side so we're pretty good at it...we can keep 'em tied up for an hour sometimes. We have the same kind of fun with annoying telemarketers too :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

13. Whether or not you are employed, and if you are a former employee whether or not you are eligible...

for rehire. Any other information should only be released on a written authorization with your signature (e.g. a Verification Of Employement for a loan application).

[Inchworm]

19. That is what boss thought it was about

A loan query.

Believe me, I'm in no "get a loan" line :)

[cbdo2007]

14. The boss should never give any information to an "unknown caller".

If they do, the employee should bring it up with their HR department as a major safety/security issue.

Now if the person identifies themself, then it is up to the boss how much information they want to give out but they certainly should not give out any personal information as defined in the employee handbook.

I believe it's actually against the law for bill collectors to contact someone at their place of business, so the employee needs to tell the company not to contact them there ever again. Check the Fair Debt Collection Act thing as I think it is defined in there.

[Inchworm]

21. I'll read that later

The person stated they were from "financial -something-" which is why the boss thought it may have been in regards to a loan I was trying to get.

Thanks

[sharp_stick]

15. My company won't even

connect you to my phone unless you spell my name properly, drop a letter or misplace a letter they'll tell you that nobody with that spelling is available. I had a vendor trying to get my info so he could send me the invoice and the operator wouldn't connect him because he mis-spelled my last name by one letter.

They will give out absolutely no information about an employee unless specifically directed to by that employee through HR.

We have big problems with corporate espionage and social engineering so it's pretty tight now.

[Inchworm]

23. Seems safer that way

All these PSAs about identity theft and all.

That would be a hoot! For some poor rogue to steal my identity.

:rofl:

[Xithras]

16. Most of the posters here are wrong. LEGALLY, they can give any information they want.

Civilly, however, you can sue them if they give out information that is defamatory or which causes you harm. The only exceptions, of course, are legally protected items like your social security number, medical conditions they be aware of, etc.

Many employees today erroneously believe that employers are prohibited from discussing employees. They also erroneously believe that it's illegal to discuss your job performance or reasons for termination with potential new employers calling for a reference check. Neither is actually true. An employer can discuss anything he/she wants on the phone.

Your only recourse is to sue them for damages if they do so. To win, you would merely need to prove that the employers statements were A) Untrue, and B) Defamatory or harmful to your reputation. You may also be able to sue your employer if they give out information (like your home address) that is later used by someone to commit a crime against you.

So yes, if your boss fires you for xeroxing your buttocks on the company copier, he CAN reveal that information to potential new employers...as long as he has security camera footage or witness affidavits to verify the claim if you decide to sue. If the claim was true, you cannot collect damages even if the revalation was harmful to your reputation.

The reality, of course, is that only a terminally stupid employer would do this. While employers may win 8 out of 10 suits of this type, the court costs involved in defending yourself against a constant barrage of them would be outrageous. That's why most employers and HR departments have policies that simply ban the release of any information other than hire/fire dates. It's not law, it's simply common policy.

[Cleita]

20. Unless they changed the law, you can't give a bad reference

in California because you can be sued and the law is on the side of the employee. The smart thing though is to give no information other than the basic dates of employment and what the person's job is. The reasoning is that how a person perceives their employee is subjective. So xeroxing your butt might be considered hilarious by one employer and not another. I'm at work now and my employer doesn't mind me doing the internet as long as my work is done and I'm here when I'm supposed to be. I could be fired in another workplace for this. So good or bad employees are in the eye of the employer.

[Xithras]

26. I'm in California. I was an employer. That's not the law.

There is not, and never has been, a law against giving a bad reference. It's simply a stupid thing to do, so nearly all employers have policies forbidding the practice. Once an employee is gone, there is no point in spreading negative information about them, and there is a LOT of potential legal liability, so it's almost universally considered to be a stupid idea. But it's not actually illegal.

You'll also find, by the way, that most lawsuits of this type do fail. If you file a defamation suit against a former employer, you have to prove that the information was incorrect. Truth is a valid, legal defense against a slander claim. In many cases, proving this is simple...just ask the former employer to prove what happened. If they can't do so, you've legally proven the information incorrect. BUT. If you signed ANYTHING admitting to the allegation, or if there were witnesses other than your employer who are willing to testify, or if there is video footage of you doing it, or basically ANY sort of evidence that proves the truth of the employers claim, then your defamation suit will fail. You cannot win a suit against someone for telling the truth, even if that truth is harmful to you (except for certain protected items, like medical/HIV status, etc).

[Cleita]

28. Are you a lawyer? Because the legal department of a very large company

I worked forl said differently. Like I said the law could have changed since I worked there because it was more than twenty years ago. I also knew someone who was able to get the State Labor board to take his case on account of a bad reference.

[tonysam]

33. I was told there was lots of case law which protects employees

from bad references. I know for a fact my former school district wouldn't give out any information other than names, dates, and that sort of thing, because an H.R. guy from another district was trying to get me to disclose the reason I left.

But that doesn't change the fact that on school district APPLICATIONS, you have to reveal all terminations, resignations, and even disciplinary actions against you, because, as we "all" know, supervisors are never wrong, and they never violate laws. If you were fired it was something YOU did, not what THEY did. You can't use weasel words, either, because these questions are typically yes or no questions.

[Cleita]

38. I did find out something strange when I worked for the State of California

in the university system. They don't have to follow the law. They have their own rules about how personnel are handled and are outside of the laws the private sector must obey. For instance, they don't have to pay you if there is a budget dispute until it's over with and that could be months. Private employers have to within a certain time limit and beg or borrow it if they don't have it. Or they could be in deep shit. This might apply to other governments, local and county as well.

[Xithras]

39. Civil case law doesn't make something illegal

And the precedent is merely that you can sue an employer when they spread false and malicious information about you.

They can spread truthful information all they want, but they must have actual evidence to prove it's the truth.

The problem is that many employers simply don't understand what "evidence" is. If your boss catches you shoving $5 from the till into your pocket, and then later tells another potential employer about it, the fact that he caught you isn't going to fly as evidence. You're suing him for defamation, so any unverifiable statements of his are going to be worthless as evidence (he could be saying that just to save his own skin). In this case, an employee would probably win a sizeable award against the company for defamation.

If, however, there was a camera overhead that caught the theft, and the tape from that camera can be played in court, then the employee would lose. Truth is a defense against slander.

It all comes down to whether or not the employer can unequivocally prove the truth of their statements. Many reasons for termination are also not provable at all. If the employer tells a caller that he fired you for being to work everyday, he may think that he has solid evidence to keep himself safe, because all of the timecards show him punching in at 8:05-8:10 every morning. But what if the employee claims that the employer wouldn't permit him to clock in on time? Or that his actual work hours didn't start until 8:15, and he was actually a few minutes early every morning? Can the employer definitively prove those statements false? And if the employer is stupid enough to accuse a former employee of something subjective, like being "lazy", then "proof" is almost impossible.

That's why these kinds of statements are a legal minefield for an employer. A good attorney can find a ton of loopholes to disprove evidence, and without proof, an employers statement can be considered slander.

Still, most suits of this type do NOT succeed. There have been a number of high profile cases in which former employees have received large payouts, but in most cases there is sufficient proof available for the employer to prove the truth of the statements, or at least to plant enough doubt in a jury that a suit will be dismissed. Even though they win most of them, employers still try to steer clear of these types of suits, because a lost lawsuit still costs money to defend against.

[Inchworm]

27. That all makes sense

And it is about what I figured, legally.

Someone upthread rounded that statement off to "they can give anything and aren't required to give anything."

Thanks for the input.

[tonysam]

34. They can if they want to risk a lawsuit

The thing against a prospective employee is getting the proof, but there are ways of finding out if your boss is giving other outfits a shitty reference.

[tonysam]

31. Companies open themselves up to lawsuits with defamatory information

The fact of the matter is, people have a right to earn a living without being blackballed by a previous employer. Just because one company wasn't the right fit doesn't mean it will be true with the next employer. Generally speaking, employers in the private sector aren't going to bother giving other employers a shitty reference, and they don't want to be sued.

The only exception is public school districts. They will blackball you throughout every single school district in the United States no matter what the reason for your termination, and most are bogus. If you lie on an application about terminations, you can get your license suspended or be denied your license to teach.

You can't win if you are a terminated teacher.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Here's the N. Carolina statute concerning what employee information is allowed.

http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina/162a-water-and-sewer-systems/162a-6.1.html

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of G.S. 132‑6 or any other law concerning access to public records, personnel files of employees, former employees, or applicants for employment maintained by an authority are subject to inspection and may be disclosed only as provided by this section.

(b) The following information with respect to each authority employee is a matter of public record: name; age; date of original employment or appointment to the service; the terms of any contract by which the employee is employed whether written or oral, past and current, to the extent that the authority has the written contract or a record of the oral contract in its possession; current position title; current salary; date and amount of the most recent increase or decrease in salary; date of the most recent promotion, demotion, transfer, suspension, separation, or other change in position classification; and the office to which the employee is currently assigned.

[Inchworm]

30. Super!

Thanks a heap!

My mind is clear :)

:yourock:

[prolesunited]

37. Creditor tracking you down?

Watch out for lawsuits. If they file for wage garnishment and win the case (and they will be default even it you don't show), all bets are off.

I switched desks once at work after a co-worker quit and started being harassed by somebody that was after her. I would give them the HR number and they would stop for awhile and then it would resume. I think they kept thinking I would answer the phone as her.

[Xithras]

Is that for all employers?

I notice that it keeps referencing "maintained by an authority", but the cite stripped the Definitions section that would explain exactly what authorities this applies to. Is that all employers, or only government employers under the authority of the state?

That's an interesting law if it covers all employers. I didn't realize that some states actually do have laws covering disclosure.

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[Bitwit1234]

40. In the State of MD

you could only verify they worked there. And if they were a bill collector you did not have to bring the employee to the phone. Any think other than that was against the law and the bill collector could be fined. I was an Administrative Secretary and that was my guidelines.