Is anyone familiar with Narssisitic Personality Disorder?

[Blue_Roses]

I have a sister who is showing signs of this and we (our family) is in desperate need of advice and guidance. I have ADD and I always thought she probably had it too, however, she has always been secretive about things and recently we found out some things that threw us all for a loop.

I have two other sisters and my mother. My dad is dead so between me, my sisters and mom (the brother-in-laws have tried to help too, to no avail) we feel like we're all she has. She's fifty-four years old, divorced (four years ago) after fourteen years of marriage and she has been dependent on her ex-husband for financial support since their divorce. (no alimony in divorce agreement) She was raised in a middle class home, but always wanted live like she has a champagne salary, but actually has a beer budget. She has a two year degree and has worked as a legal secretary, but mainly she has been "kept" by men with money. She has always been very pretty and has used this to her advantage, but now with age it just isn't working for her like it did in the younger days.

Here's the problem: her ex-husband has cut her off financially. He said , "he's done with her." He's engaged and has told my sister to make it on her own now. She has blamed him for everything under the sun. She is back living with my 87 year old mother, and has been horrible to her. She is rude, verbally abusive and very moody. My mother is taking it all in stride, but we know it's killing her inside and to watch this is killing us. My other sisters and I have all taken a different approach with her. None have worked and it's becoming very hostile between her and my other two sisters.

I could go on and on, but for now that's the jest of it...much more later. I have checked on Borderline Personality Disorder and this. Any help, guidance, feedback would be MOST appreciated:)

[EFerrari]

1. I'm so sorry to hear this.

:hug:

Any chance she is willing to be tested? Sometimes the PDs are co-morbid with each other and with other stuff.

[Blue_Roses]

2. No way.

It's all we can do to get her to be nice half the time. She doesn't think it's her problem. She thinks it's all ours. It's a real mess. She blames everyone for her problems.

Her problems couldn't possibly have anything to do with MAYBE she 1)doesn't work 2)depends on the wrong men 3) is rude to family who DO try to SUGGEST she get a job and stop depending on a man to support her 4) stop blaming others for getting her car repoed 5) the list goes on and on...:eyes:

Thank-goodness she never had kids.

What's sad is she is very smart and when she does work, she's very efficient.

[EFerrari]

3. I understand. Doug used to project all over me

mostly because (I imagine) what he was going through was too painful to "own" -- so, he handed it off to me.

So, even if you frame it as an opportunity to blame everyone to a therapist, it's not a go? "I don't know how you managed to put up with that man. It must have been really rough on you. Maybe a counselor could help you recover from the stress he's caused you!"

[Blue_Roses]

6. this time it's my sister

not my spouse:)

[EFerrari]

7. Lol! Same rules apply.

:)

[Blue_Roses]

9. exactly!

:)

[bling bling]

4. Personality Disorders are difficult to get treatment for.

And like SFexpat said there is a lot of co-morbidity involved so, for example, a Borderline Personality can have narcissistic tendencies as well as obsessive-compulsive personality traits or even avoidant personality traits.

They're Axis II disorders so unless you can pay out of pocket or have a good insurance plan it's hard to find treatment for personality disorders as a primary diagnosis.

I really don't know very much about narcissistic personality traits. I do know it can be one of the most difficult disorders to treat because often the individual doesn't think he/she needs help (which would make sense).

Ordinarily, personality disorders start showing up in adolescence. The fact that she is 54 years old and you're just now seeing such strong signs would lead me to think you may want to try and rule out other things first.

Any life changing stress like Divorce can have a devastating impact on your brain. Depression is highly common after a divorce and irritability and anger and lack of energy are very common symptoms of depression. Has she gone through menopause yet? She could be dealing with hormone imbalances and that can definitely cause *major* mood problems and instability as well. She could be experience a double whammy of both of those things combined.

If she is being exceptionally rude, and moody, in ways that she wasn't before, it is a good sign that something is going on with her.

I just haven't figured out a way to get other people to seek treatment if they don't want to. When they're in an angry and irrational state of mind it really seems like it's everybody else who's got the problem. 'Why is everybody ELSE "making" me feel this way, sort of thing.' She honestly might not even realize it's her that's actually the problem and not everyone else. Probably other people here would have better advice than I as far as how to coax her into seeking help. I just don't know a good answer for that right now. I'd be as interested as you to see what advice others have in that aspect.

[DemExpat]

5. IMO and experience personally with borderline.....

I think it will take a more crisis situation for her, like her Mom asking her to work to help pay the bills,(setting down some reasonable boundaries) or even asking her to find her own place to live and support herself, to get her to face facts about herself and try to find ways to accept more responsibility.

I sympathize with her, and agree that other factors might be playing a role now with menopause, losing her youth and an important way to get support from men in the past, etc., but making life hell for an 87 year old Mom is unacceptable in my view.

Someone IMO will have to let her know that all of the projection is not going to work anymore, especially if that projection and acting out on everybody is undermining other people's health.

Tough situation, though, and each case is of course different.

DemEx

[Blue_Roses]

8. She's always been very

secretive about her life--even when she was young. She got on drugs pretty bad in the 70's and I remember (she's nine years older than me) my parents having to pick her up at her apartment in Dallas because she was freaking out. She made my mom get in the closet with her because people were after her.(so she said) My parents put her in a hospital and the doctor said she lucky because of the amount of drugs in her system.

The brought her home to stay with us after that and she would stay up all night--with the light on in her room--paranoid something was hidden in the TV. One time she slapped my hand when I went to turn on the TV. She said there were "little devices" in it. I was a senior in high school and it freaked me out to see my sister like this.

She seemed to get better as time went on, but I've since learned that if she stays with someone and loses something, she automatically thinks they stole it. This happened to both of my other sisters.

It's just so much info that I'm learning NOW and I'm on overload trying to figure out how to help her. My oldest sister has had enough and my poor mother is beside herself. She has got to be evaluated some how.

[EFerrari]

10. Is anyone in the family in therapy? If someone is, maybe

they could request a joint session -- get her in the door, anyway.

It does sound like a PD to me, but I'm an English teacher. Doug wasn't even diagnosed until he was nearly forty because he wasn't very close to other people (so, no one really noticed the subtle stuff) and because he compensated so well. He did that losing something/you stole it thing -- it turned out to be low level paranoia that the poor guy didn't even know he had. That got much better with proper meds but, it seems to be something he'll have to deal with off and on. I don't think he knows what it is to this day.

DemEx is right, imo, about setting limits but that can be just as exhausting as dealing with acting out. :(

[Blue_Roses]

11. I think that she has reached the end of her rope

with how to hide her "life" from us now. She's much older and the charm she had when she was younger (to coax a man) has wained. I talked to my older sister tonight after she read some things on narcissistic personality that I emailed her from the Mayo Clinic and she thought it was dead on. Her husband even said it was astounding how much this info sounded like her. She feels like she has a better understanding now, even though it's still frustrating.

It's interesting how when you finally figure out what the hell is going on inside the brain (me with ADD) how one can be more patient. However, it's still frustrating when that person refuses to get the help they need. For me, I was so relieved to finally find out what the "fog" was that I cried like a baby--out of relief. With my sister, I don't see that happening:(

I was up reading as much as I could about this last night, but I'm trying to not forget I have my own family to think about. Boundaries...like you and DemEx is the key to surviving--I think;) This could all change tomorrow:crazy: