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Democratic Primaries

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Gothmog

(145,063 posts)
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:39 AM Jan 2020

It's Bernie, not Biden, who has the electability problem [View all]




Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has decided to attack Joe Biden, claiming that the moderate former vice president, who sits atop virtually every national poll with solid African American support, is somehow unelectable. His argument is that Biden couldn’t possibly be elected because he voted for the Iraq War nearly 20 years ago and for the North American Free Trade Agreement 27 years ago. There is no data to support that argument and, logically, one would think that running as a self-described socialist now is a much bigger electability problem than Biden’s past votes, but we do not have to speculate.

Some of Sanders’s signature, super-progressive issues play very poorly in swing states. The Kaiser Family Foundation’s Blue Wall Voices Project last year found that “large shares of swing voters in Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin say stopping detainments at the U.S. border for people cross into the country illegally and a national Medicare-for-all plan are ‘bad ideas.’ ”
Moreover, polling over the last week or so shows clearly that picking Sanders would be a gamble. While he once was leading outside the margin of error in head-to-head matchups against President Trump, he is now losing or at best within the margin of error while Biden continues to be the most viable candidate against Trump.....

Moreover, given that Democratic victories are heavily dependent on African American turnout, it is difficult to see that Sanders, who gets a fraction of the African American support that Biden does, could turn out a bigger African American vote than Biden could. (Recall that in the 2016 primary, Hillary Clinton walloped Sanders among African American voters.) In the latest Fox News South Carolina poll, Biden gets 43 percent of the African American vote, Sanders just 12 percent.

And finally, remember that in the 2018 midterms, super-progressive candidates endorsed by Sanders did not flip a single House seat from red to blue. All those House seats were flipped by Biden-type moderates.

There will be a debate next week. That might be a good moment to quiz Sanders on where his claim to superior electability comes from. So far, there is not a whole lot — if any — evidence to back up his boast.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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Everybody has their own opinion. James48 Jan 2020 #1
I want to defeat trump Gothmog Jan 2020 #3
We're supposed to take the word of a loser? Scotch-Irish Jan 2020 #106
He's Not the only one who feels this way.. Cha Jan 2020 #192
Yes, me too!! Bernie is the only electable candidate, as he's the only one who speaks to the base InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #11
The base of what? The Valley Below Jan 2020 #28
Bernie speaks ro those who recognize the system has been corrupted ArcticFox Jan 2020 #93
Nah. The "base" isn't those who attack our party as "corrupt." The Valley Below Jan 2020 #98
Great. Stick with the denial. ArcticFox Jan 2020 #107
You are slandering the Democratic Party. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #108
Bull ArcticFox Jan 2020 #115
You can't fix it with somebody who ain't going to win the election! NBachers Jan 2020 #134
YES, PRECISELY WHY BERNIE, NOT JOE, SHOULD BE THE DEMOCRAT WE NOMINATE TO RUN AGAINST DOLT45!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #165
Did you think Hillary would win? ArcticFox Jan 2020 #168
Remember Nader voters who refused to vote for Gore, but kept their "principles & ideals" intact? NBachers Jan 2020 #176
but no ones base alone is whats going to win the nom or the election... samnsara Jan 2020 #37
Who, pray tell me is his base? He is a spoiler who cost Hilary the election. olegramps Jan 2020 #55
Just a note Normanart Jan 2020 #64
nonsense Eliot Rosewater Jan 2020 #79
The electoral college DID cost Hillary the election, as she herself admitted... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #118
If you believe he can eliminate Electoral College you are seriously uninformed. olegramps Jan 2020 #181
Only? what in the FUCK ...DEAR GOD Eliot Rosewater Jan 2020 #78
Please put down the pennants and pompoms for a minute and explain who the "base" is, The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #100
+1000000000000 emmaverybo Jan 2020 #160
right on!! olegramps Jan 2020 #182
He's not speaking to the Democratic Party's base mcar Jan 2020 #149
Any Dem needs more than the base. Repugs will paint Sanders 24/7... brush Jan 2020 #157
Bernie Brewh Jan 2020 #57
Nice having you aboard Brewh!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #119
The OP cited facts to suggest a reasonable inference, that Bernie, not Biden is the one with an emmaverybo Jan 2020 #101
ME TOO!! WELCOME ABOARD THE BERNIE BULLET TRAIN!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #143
It Always Strikes Me As Odd Me. Jan 2020 #2
I think we should embrace former Republicans. We need a lot more of them. totodeinhere Jan 2020 #91
In the GE I see it the other way around and I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. nt Autumn Jan 2020 #4
I am sure you haven't...any evidence which by the way is plentiful...would be ignored. You support Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #12
I believe our best hope to take the White House and get rid of Trump is Bernie or Liz. Autumn Jan 2020 #14
I completely agree Locrian Jan 2020 #56
Manufactured? By the media/corporates? LiberalFighter Jan 2020 #67
Biden has very thin skin when it comes to his son as most parents are. Trump, Pukes and the media Autumn Jan 2020 #111
ANOTHER great point! Bernie doesn't let ANYTHING get to him, not even a heart attack for damn sake!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #141
NO.. Biden is Tough. Cha Jan 2020 #190
Joe's chances of beatin tRumpty Dumbty, puttin Joe's questionable voting record aside, are far less InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #120
Former VP has a well of good will to draw from Tweedy Jan 2020 #195
I would not call poll results "evidence." totodeinhere Jan 2020 #94
YES WE KNOW!! IF POLLS WERE ACCURATE, HILLARY WOULD HAVE BEATEN DOLT45 IN A LANDSLIDE!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #122
NO QUESTION!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #13
You cannot prove a negative. The question is, what evidence makes you see the other way around? beastie boy Jan 2020 #16
I think that Joe's temperament will be a real problem in the GE when Trump goes after him. nt Autumn Jan 2020 #19
Can you point to any evidence that Bernie will do better? beastie boy Jan 2020 #20
For one I haven't seen Bernie go after a Democratic activist who worked on Obama's campaign Autumn Jan 2020 #23
One more thing: absence of evidence is not evidence. beastie boy Jan 2020 #24
Nice that you ask a question and ignore the factual answer because you don't like it. Autumn Jan 2020 #26
I like the answer, in a funny way, but it is n ot the answer to my question. beastie boy Jan 2020 #27
I gave an opinion on the electability of Bernie, Liz and Joe in the GE based on a current event Autumn Jan 2020 #34
Since post #16, post #20 and post #24. All of them asking for evidence. All of them you responded to beastie boy Jan 2020 #36
YOU responded to me with your request for evidence of my opinion. Autumn Jan 2020 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author beastie boy Jan 2020 #44
In post #19 I responded to you with my opinion. I see no reason, I have no need to Autumn Jan 2020 #47
Ummm... no. You didn't go to # 16 beastie boy Jan 2020 #50
And dismissively rolling on the floor laugh at anyone who disagrees or questions them. LakeArenal Jan 2020 #83
Joe's temperament?? Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #45
ROTFLMFAO!! GOOD ONE AUTUMN!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #146
Autumn...you say a Democratic activist? pfeiffer Jan 2020 #48
He's an activist who volunteered on Obama's campaign. He was hired by Bernie AFTER Trump told him Autumn Jan 2020 #51
Excellent point! Joe's temperament gets him in trouble & is the source of so many of his gaffes. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #129
Bernie hasn't challenged anyone to a push-up contest yet BeyondGeography Jan 2020 #53
Maybe Bernie feels too old to be President... beastie boy Jan 2020 #95
True, though even a heart attack has not slowed Bernie down in the slightest... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #132
Go back and look at Joe's VP debates. Watch Joe's floor-mopping demonstration. NBachers Jan 2020 #136
How long ago were those debates? Autumn Jan 2020 #137
Sure haven't seen any "floor-mopping" demonstrations by Joe in the Democratic primary debates. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #142
just pinky swear to vote for the dem nom even if its a damn loaf of bread... samnsara Jan 2020 #38
We'll never know, since he won't be involved in the general election, unless of course he........... George II Jan 2020 #130
Yeah George. Whatever. Autumn Jan 2020 #135
Whenever I need my beltway CW fix Jennifer Rubin is there BeyondGeography Jan 2020 #5
Bernie ran for President in 2016 ritapria Jan 2020 #6
Many people wanted Joe to run in 2016 PatSeg Jan 2020 #8
All of this +1 LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #10
yes joe would have won in 2016.... samnsara Jan 2020 #39
I've thought so for a long time PatSeg Jan 2020 #49
So Joe would have beat out Hillary. Interesting. brutus smith Jan 2020 #76
NOT A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #126
No way Joe could EVER have beaten Hillary in ANY race they both competed in. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #125
Joe Biden never lost a single primary. Remember, Biden had a long distinguished Senate career.... George II Jan 2020 #9
He dropped out in 88 ... Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #21
No explanation is necessary. He never lost a single primary. Not one. George II Jan 2020 #22
how far back is 1987?..even 2008 is ancient history..im sure all the candidates can be... samnsara Jan 2020 #40
The game here melman Jan 2020 #68
He's pretending the one percent showing in... Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #105
By my count, Joe lost the Democratic primary elections in 1988 & 2008; thats 2 primary races he lost InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #138
CUTE MALARKEY, YES!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #133
He wasn't elected VP, he was appointed. brutus smith Jan 2020 #80
He was on the ticket that people voted for. He was elected. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #89
YOU BEAT ME TO IT... THANK YOU!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #144
So if we nominate a Sanders/Warren ticket, then we get a team. TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #153
Biden was part of a TEAM who was ELECTED. Cha Jan 2020 #150
Joe didn't run for VP, Obama appointed him to the ticket. brutus smith Jan 2020 #164
BOOOOOOOOMMM!!!! There's a good reason Biden lost the 1988 and 2008 primary elections he ran in... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #15
lmao you're bordering on parody right now. Drunken Irishman Jan 2020 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #92
you dislike biden so much....actually as much as I dislike BS..but I will swear to vote.. samnsara Jan 2020 #41
Asked and answered DOZENS of times...though many here will pretend not to know. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #123
Which primary election has Biden lost? I'll answer that - NONE! George II Jan 2020 #170
Oh snap! LiberalLovinLug Jan 2020 #90
Here's the conclusion from Ms Rubin: comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #7
Spot on. Nt BootinUp Jan 2020 #140
Would not be surprised if Bernie is target during upcoming debate Zeus69 Jan 2020 #17
Lol. Jennifer Rubin is a right wing hack. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #18
I know right ? They love to hold up Republicans views as how we should vote. bahrbearian Jan 2020 #30
Jennifer Rubin has been excellent and this proves you are not being objective. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #33
She's not excellent at all melman Jan 2020 #73
Which of her statements do you consider to be factually incorrect? The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #82
The supporters for each of the Dem Prez candidates have seemed most reasonable, however, . . . empedocles Jan 2020 #29
Bernie self identifying as a Socialist is completely disqualifying !!! THE END. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #31
As someone coming from a family of Milwaukee Socialists TheRealNorth Jan 2020 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #70
I come from a family of realists and it's disqualifying for a General Election. Come on man! nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #112
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #158
This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #163
Pls. face political reality. brush Jan 2020 #162
I would also add TheRealNorth Jan 2020 #60
So you are essentially saying that I would vote for dump. UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #117
I understand the electability argument TheRealNorth Jan 2020 #161
It's not that Socialists are not acceptable it's what the Rs will do with it yellowdogintexas Jan 2020 #102
Agreed. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #114
A DEMOCRATIC socialist...in the mold of FDR. Bernie is moving the Democratic Party back to its roots InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #124
trump would destroy sanders in a general election Gothmog Jan 2020 #186
K & R SunSeeker Jan 2020 #32
It's math-if someone can't win a primary, they can't win a general election dlk Jan 2020 #35
They both have electability problems. maxsolomon Jan 2020 #43
I think both Biden and Sanders have electability problems... DCofVA Jan 2020 #46
Biden is the only Democrats who can pick up both Florida and Virginia Gothmog Jan 2020 #54
The current polls are useless DCofVA Jan 2020 #71
Too early to know that for sure. And current polls don't take possible Republican shenanigans totodeinhere Jan 2020 #96
I could live with President Warren!! Both Elizabeth AND Bernie have FAR LESS baggage than Joe!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #145
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2020 #52
"little"? What polls? marble falls Jan 2020 #61
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2020 #66
All I see on your link is Bernie vs Trump, and Trump leads in some ... marble falls Jan 2020 #110
The Republican "socialist" attacks on Bernie would be relentless. CaptainTruth Jan 2020 #58
I said a LONG time ago, show me who has the best chance of beating the FASCIST KILLER Eliot Rosewater Jan 2020 #62
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #63
Don't smear Democrats. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author geretogo Jan 2020 #72
You capitalize Fascist but not democrat? The Valley Below Jan 2020 #74
This message was self-deleted by its author geretogo Jan 2020 #77
Smearing great liberal Democrats like Joe Biden as "Republican lite" The Valley Below Jan 2020 #84
We don't attack members, either. marble falls Jan 2020 #113
Bernie would call himself a Progressive, a Liberal, and a Sloumeau Jan 2020 #104
So Democrats and Republicans are alike. marble falls Jan 2020 #116
There is no candidate that I can see that has an electability problem. nt yaesu Jan 2020 #69
I don't think that with any of the present front-runners... mwooldri Jan 2020 #75
Bernie can't win in a national election... dubyadiprecession Jan 2020 #81
That's what they said about Hillary too. We have to more than just beat tRump. We need a landslide KPN Jan 2020 #85
Exactly. I am very skeptical of know-it-all political pundits when they were so sure that totodeinhere Jan 2020 #88
ANSWER: FUCK NO!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #139
.... KPN Jan 2020 #151
Yep Wawannabe Jan 2020 #86
I think that Bernie is looking past today's polls and he feels that he could run a more totodeinhere Jan 2020 #87
Wise words... welcome aboard!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #127
No, this isn't accurate at all janterry Jan 2020 #97
Did you know Jennifer Rubin wanted John Bolton to run for president? melman Jan 2020 #99
Context? TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #109
She wanted John Bolton to run for president melman Jan 2020 #121
I can easily see where that tweet might be sarcasm. TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #152
It's not sarcasm melman Jan 2020 #154
Okay then, where is the context for the tweet? TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #155
The context is she's a right winger who tweets right wing shit melman Jan 2020 #156
Okay then, I'm not persuaded. TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #159
The context was she was being sarcastic. George II Jan 2020 #172
In that case TexasTowelie Jan 2020 #173
Jennifer Rubin is an astute, intelligent woman. Surely she wasn't serious about Bolton running.... George II Jan 2020 #174
Wow, 2011. That's like 8-9 years old. Considering she's got 91,000 tweets, that's a lot of digging. George II Jan 2020 #128
Nothing that happened before last week matters melman Jan 2020 #131
Interesting. She joined twitter in November 2010 and has posted 91,000 tweets since.... George II Jan 2020 #171
From 2016 melman Jan 2020 #178
Here's a fun column from 2014 melman Jan 2020 #179
When the convention is over, what are YOU going to do? yellowdogintexas Jan 2020 #103
I'll be voting the DEMOCRATIC nominee into office... President Bernie Sanders!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #148
i don't give much thought to republicans opinion. Actually zero. Kurt V. Jan 2020 #147
LESS THAN ZERO!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #166
LESS THAN ZERO!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #167
That Republican lady Rubin...the Never Trump Republican! Stellar Jan 2020 #169
Younger Voters...... colsohlibgal Jan 2020 #175
Anyone who thinks Medicare is Socialism doesn't understand the term LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #177
The last time we experimented with a close to Bernie and Liz candidate was in 1972-George McGovern. Gothmog Jan 2020 #180
Obama campaign guru: Trump would love to run against Bernie Gothmog Jan 2020 #183
They all have an electability problem democrattotheend Jan 2020 #184
This is a major Republican chaos operation staring to divide the democrats at every level Gothmog Jan 2020 #185
GOP support of sanders show that he is the weakest candidate Gothmog Jan 2020 #187
The GOP really wants to run against the weakest possible candidate Gothmog Jan 2020 #188
Trump would destroy sanders Gothmog Jan 2020 #189
Sanders is a very weak general election candidate Gothmog Jan 2020 #191
UAW Past President Sees It Differently corbettkroehler Jan 2020 #193
Data Reveals A Moderate Democrat Is The Best Chance To Beat Trump Gothmog Jan 2020 #194
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