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Democratic Primaries

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Thunderbeast

(3,406 posts)
Fri Sep 13, 2019, 02:11 PM Sep 2019

Will SOMEBODY get honest about Universal Healthcare? [View all]

I was troubled last night by the discussion. The economics of MFA or a public option failed to deal with two fundamental issues:

TAXES WILL PAY FOR THE PLAN. Whether MFA, a subsidized public option, or expanded Medicaid, we must be honest enough to say those words. Sanders is right...a Universal MFA plan would likely be cheaper than the current system, but the mechanics must not be left vague. Voters are smart enough to figure that out, but I saw NOBODY last night with the courage to lay it out clearly.

MEDICAL COSTS MUST BE REDUCED...NOT JUST INSURANCE. Insurance is the method to impose cost controls on a system that is out of control. If insurers don't fill that role, the new government plans will (and must). Our society CAN NOT afford all of the therapies that have been invented. Multi-million dollar treatments invented and priced by pharma need to be reigned in. "Hail Mary" procedures during the last months of life are cruel and they bankrupt survivors.

A look at one of our local hospitals shows clearly how finance drives investment. Cancer wards are shiny new trimmed in brass and mahogany. The mental health unit is in the basement of a 100 year-old building. Which unit do you suspect is funded by private insurance? Which one largely serves Medicaid patients?

High quality health care that achieves outcomes similar to the rest of the industrialized nations is possible. It can be achieved for far less than we spend now. We must, however, bend the cost curve.

Medical and nursing programs must expand so more providers enter the field. Their school costs need to be socialized so that new doctors don't need to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.

These will be major disruptions to our current medical model. They will not be without some pain and sacrifice to providers and currently-entitled consumers.

The conversation about these disruptions must be made transparently and honestly if you want me to get excited about your plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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I think as the field narrows there will ve more time for sanders and warren to clearly lay out m4a. Tiggeroshii Sep 2019 #1
and then we will lose 43 states, the house and the senate BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #3
So what's your solution, then? moose65 Sep 2019 #5
I am FOR Medicare for all. Thunderbeast Sep 2019 #21
That's very fair Mike 03 Sep 2019 #32
we need to start by controling costs questionseverything Sep 2019 #59
I'm for Medicare For All Who Want it but your dire prediction is over the top. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2019 #6
It is not. BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #10
Ummm...I think you have your decades wrong...n/t TCJ70 Sep 2019 #18
Thank you kindly. I made the corrections. BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #25
Only if you make a habit of it! n/t TCJ70 Sep 2019 #27
Spoken like someone who knows nothing about universal healthcare Bev54 Sep 2019 #62
I'd like to know just who is soaking up all the extreme profits. Kablooie Sep 2019 #2
It is an urban myth that there are obscene profits in health care BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #9
Sure, here is a list of health care CEO's who have made out like thieves ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #13
Those numbers are paltry as compared to BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #14
That was a weak deflection ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #15
CEO skills remain the same regardless of the industry BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #24
No ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #28
It is all about begrudging people who make money nt BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #44
Straw man.... ehrnst Sep 2019 #45
Health care INSURANCE companies are the problem. Gross profits, Nt. Ninga Sep 2019 #31
We live in a free market economy. BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #37
Wall Street would agree. Meanwhile, the working poor and destitute are collateral damage Ninga Sep 2019 #38
So is the goal to punish insurance companies, or is it to get universal health care? ehrnst Sep 2019 #46
Health care insurance companies don't profit as much as you might think. Garrett78 Sep 2019 #49
There's a difference between the health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry. Garrett78 Sep 2019 #50
Please explain a couple things then regarding obscene profits. Mike 03 Sep 2019 #16
Great points thanks ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #20
Many reasons BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #23
One reason is malpractice insurance, another is the way that insurance ehrnst Sep 2019 #80
I have traveled extensively in Europe and asked people there if they would give up their health CTyankee Sep 2019 #22
It tells us that they are culturally different BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #26
They know a lot about our health care. Most I talk to shudder at the thought of our type of CTyankee Sep 2019 #34
Other countries are used to much higher taxes. However, these are rankling workers in France, emmaverybo Sep 2019 #55
So have I ChubbyStar Sep 2019 #29
With my employer-based private plan: Thunderbeast Sep 2019 #30
"It is an urban myth that there are obscene profits in health care" LudwigPastorius Sep 2019 #41
Anyone's profit can surge 29% BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #43
First, that's from 2017, more than two years ago. Second that is a 29% increase over the previous.. George II Sep 2019 #48
Why is cost of US investment only absorbed by *our* system... Beartracks Sep 2019 #52
Fair question BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #56
Thanks for the informative response. n/t Beartracks Sep 2019 #71
How do you define "obscene"? KPN Sep 2019 #54
I didn't use the word "extreme" in my post nt BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #58
Thank you for the correction. I edited. KPN Sep 2019 #66
"obscene" is how some of the people perceive it BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #67
BS Bev54 Sep 2019 #63
So you really don't have any "objective" rebuttal BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #68
Right wing drivel... JackFrost Sep 2019 #78
And yet, the US has poorer outcomes when you see a scoring of health outcomes of other CTyankee Sep 2019 #84
OK, I beg to differ. Substantially. PatrickforO Sep 2019 #88
I Your op is very bias prejudice opinionated therefore not honest wasupaloopa Sep 2019 #4
So why can't we do it, then? Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2019 #7
We haven't put it together yet wasupaloopa Sep 2019 #8
So there's no reason we can't do it at this point? Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2019 #12
Do something you haven't got the slightest idea how to go about and cannot wasupaloopa Sep 2019 #17
I like to say that ours is a country that won world war II and put a man on the moon and we can't CTyankee Sep 2019 #35
See post No. 9 BlueMississippi Sep 2019 #11
What are you talking about? Bev54 Sep 2019 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author Mike 03 Sep 2019 #19
Without a realistic path (and I'm not talking about a plan), the goals won't be reached. gulliver Sep 2019 #33
No one talks about the loss of jobs in communities with private insurance 5starlib Sep 2019 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author LudwigPastorius Sep 2019 #40
When I was a boy. Blue_true Sep 2019 #47
I agree. I would say one thing, just about any medical school grad can get loan forgiveness by Hoyt Sep 2019 #51
You hit the nail on the head, the head that many seem to not understand - although they are.... George II Sep 2019 #53
Warren tells the truth, just not in sound bytes the GOP can use. LAS14 Sep 2019 #57
Lofty promises without an explanation of how they will really happen elocs Sep 2019 #60
None of the candidates explain it properly Bev54 Sep 2019 #61
Sure, I'll be honest: I love it! Fiendish Thingy Sep 2019 #64
I thought Canada did do it in a pragmatic incremental manner dansolo Sep 2019 #75
There may have been some provinces that had their own systems, but once Tommy Douglas' plan passed Fiendish Thingy Sep 2019 #79
I think we frame the argument poorly. Amimnoch Sep 2019 #69
Insurance is the method to deny people coverage while lining the Politicub Sep 2019 #70
Speaker Pelosi-There's no need to reinvent health care -- just improve Obamacare Gothmog Sep 2019 #72
Societal Savings are not tax revenues and cannot be used to play for this plan Gothmog Sep 2019 #73
+1000. Trillions of dollars being switched from one part of the economy to another in just 2 years ehrnst Sep 2019 #81
No, voters are not smart enough to figure out that MFA is cheaper, not as a whole. elocs Sep 2019 #74
K&R Auggie Sep 2019 #76
For full honesty, it's not a POTUS issue for the most part. Amimnoch Sep 2019 #77
Oh, where to begin with this??? Crafty Girl Sep 2019 #82
Any finite quantity *will* be rationed (apportioned) in some manner The Mouth Sep 2019 #83
Howard dean said universal health care could be paid using tariffs Mosby Sep 2019 #85
Bloomberg op-ed on Buttigieg health plan MBS Sep 2019 #86
NBC/WSJ poll shows Biden's healthcare stance (optional Medicare buy-in) much more popular Gothmog Sep 2019 #87
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