Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: An American Ambassador died on Hillary Clinton's watch. He was HER employee; MURDERED. [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)313. This is not why he died. If Stevens wanted, he could have driven to the airport a week before.
Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:40 PM - Edit history (4)
It was his decision to stay on in Benghazi despite warnings he and other US diplomats and CIA officers received that Islamist militia groups he was dealing with in Eastern Libya had growing hostility to aspects of US involvement in the region. Ultimately, it was his choice to remain based on his and others misunderstanding of the Libyan opposition and other US "allies". See, A Deadly Mix in Benghazi by David D. Kirkpatrick December 28, 2013, http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/#/?chapt=0
Members of the local militia groups that the Americans called on for help proved unreliable, even hostile. The fixation on Al Qaeda might have distracted experts from more imminent threats. Those now look like intelligence failures.
More broadly, Mr. Stevens, like his bosses in Washington, believed that the United States could turn a critical mass of the fighters it helped oust Colonel Qaddafi into reliable friends. He died trying.
More broadly, Mr. Stevens, like his bosses in Washington, believed that the United States could turn a critical mass of the fighters it helped oust Colonel Qaddafi into reliable friends. He died trying.
Let's not forget why Stevens was still in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012 - for 18 months he had been the lead of a US gov't interagency team that was coordinating the armed overthrow of Ghadaffi, and after the regime's complete destruction, a coordinated transfer with Qatar and the UAE of arms and fighters from Libya to Syria. See, U.S.-Approved Arms for Libya Rebels Fell Into Jihadis Hands, By JAMES RISEN, MARK MAZZETTI and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTDEC. 5, 2012, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic militants, according to United States officials and foreign diplomats.
. . .
The Obama administration did not initially raise objections when Qatar began shipping arms to opposition groups in Syria, even if it did not offer encouragement, according to current and former administration officials. But they said the United States has growing concerns that, just as in Libya, the Qataris are equipping some of the wrong militants.
The United States, which had only small numbers of C.I.A. officers in Libya during the tumult of the rebellion, provided little oversight of the arms shipments. Within weeks of endorsing Qatars plan to send weapons there in spring 2011, the White House began receiving reports that they were going to Islamic militant groups. They were more antidemocratic, more hard-line, closer to an extreme version of Islam than the main rebel alliance in Libya, said a former Defense Department official. The Qatari assistance to fighters viewed as hostile by the United States demonstrates the Obama administrations continuing struggles in dealing with the Arab Spring uprisings, as it tries to support popular protest movements while avoiding American military entanglements. Relying on surrogates allows the United States to keep its fingerprints off operations, but also means they may play out in ways that conflict with American interests.
. . .
He said that Qatar would not have gone through with the arms shipments if the United States had resisted them, but other current and former administration officials said Washington had little leverage at times over Qatari officials. They march to their own drummer, said a former senior State Department official. The White House and State Department declined to comment.
. . .
But after the White House decided to encourage Qatar and on a smaller scale, the United Arab Emirates to ship arms to the Libyans, President Obama complained in April 2011 to the emir of Qatar that his country was not coordinating its actions in Libya with the United States, the American officials said. The president made the point to the emir that we needed transparency about what Qatar was doing in Libya, said a former senior administration official who had been briefed on the matter.
About that same time, Mahmoud Jibril, then the prime minister of the Libyan transitional government, expressed frustration to administration officials that the United States was allowing Qatar to arm extremist groups opposed to the new leadership, according to several American officials. They, like nearly a dozen current and former White House, diplomatic, intelligence, military and foreign officials, would speak only on the condition of anonymity for this article. The administration has never determined where all of the weapons, paid for by Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, went inside Libya, officials said. Qatar is believed to have shipped by air and sea small arms, including machine guns, automatic rifles, and ammunition, for which it has demanded reimbursement from Libyas new government. Some of the arms since have been moved from Libya to militants with ties to Al Qaeda in Mali, where radical jihadi factions have imposed Shariah law in the northern part of the country, the former Defense Department official said. Others have gone to Syria, according to several American and foreign officials and arms traders.
Although NATO provided air support that proved critical for the Libyan rebels, the Obama administration wanted to avoid getting immersed in a ground war, which officials feared could lead the United States into another quagmire in the Middle East.
Within months after the attack in Benghazi, the flow of arms and fighters from Libya to Syria escalated, along with the direct role of Gulf states, particularly Qatar, in large-scale transfers as the US moved toward open arming of the Syrian opposition: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/world/africa/in-a-turnabout-syria-rebels-get-libyan-weapons.html
Evidence gathered in Syria, along with flight-control data and interviews with militia members, smugglers, rebels, analysts and officials in several countries, offers a profile of a complex and active multinational effort, financed largely by Qatar, to transport arms from Libya to Syrias opposition fighters. Libyas own former fighters, who sympathize with Syrias rebels, have been eager collaborators.
. . .
As the United States and its Western allies move toward providing lethal aid to Syrian rebels, these secretive transfers give insight into an unregistered arms pipeline that is difficult to monitor or control. And while the system appears to succeed in moving arms across multiple borders and to select rebel groups, once inside Syria the flow branches out. Extremist fighters, some of them aligned with Al Qaeda, have the money to buy the newly arrived stock, and many rebels are willing to sell.
. . .
Those weapons, which slipped from state custody as Colonel Qaddafis people rose against him in 2011, are sent on ships or Qatar Emiri Air Force flights to a network of intelligence agencies and Syrian opposition leaders in Turkey. From there, Syrians distribute the arms according to their own formulas and preferences to particular fighting groups, which in turn issue them to their fighters on the ground, rebels and activists said.
Qatari C-17 cargo aircraft have made at least three stops in Libya this year including flights from Mitiga airport in Tripoli on Jan. 15 and Feb. 1, and another that departed Benghazi on April 16, according to flight data provided by an aviation official in the region. The planes returned to Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar. The cargo was then flown to Ankara, Turkey, along with other weapons and equipment that the Qataris had been gathering for the rebels, officials and rebels said.
. . .
As the United States and its Western allies move toward providing lethal aid to Syrian rebels, these secretive transfers give insight into an unregistered arms pipeline that is difficult to monitor or control. And while the system appears to succeed in moving arms across multiple borders and to select rebel groups, once inside Syria the flow branches out. Extremist fighters, some of them aligned with Al Qaeda, have the money to buy the newly arrived stock, and many rebels are willing to sell.
. . .
Those weapons, which slipped from state custody as Colonel Qaddafis people rose against him in 2011, are sent on ships or Qatar Emiri Air Force flights to a network of intelligence agencies and Syrian opposition leaders in Turkey. From there, Syrians distribute the arms according to their own formulas and preferences to particular fighting groups, which in turn issue them to their fighters on the ground, rebels and activists said.
Qatari C-17 cargo aircraft have made at least three stops in Libya this year including flights from Mitiga airport in Tripoli on Jan. 15 and Feb. 1, and another that departed Benghazi on April 16, according to flight data provided by an aviation official in the region. The planes returned to Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar. The cargo was then flown to Ankara, Turkey, along with other weapons and equipment that the Qataris had been gathering for the rebels, officials and rebels said.
In the end, it was the failure of a US covert activity, which was most enthusiastically promoted and co-managed by David Petraeus' CIA with Hillary Clinton's State Department, that sealed Ambassador Steven's fate. That is a fact that neither the Administration nor Republicans in Congress who essentially agreed with the program of serial regime change want the American public to clearly understand.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
327 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
An American Ambassador died on Hillary Clinton's watch. He was HER employee; MURDERED. [View all]
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
OP
just so you know, the hillary group is lit up over this. I personally hate that
roguevalley
Aug 2015
#227
Benghazi was a tragic event that the right wing used to try and discredit Obama
Cali_Democrat
Aug 2015
#278
The GOP Congress denied repeated request by State, including HRC herself the week before, for more
freshwest
Aug 2015
#118
Well, it's been on since Rush made his career on it followed by virtually each of the cable network
freshwest
Aug 2015
#128
Especially when the fringe left starts parroting the talking points of the hard right.
George II
Aug 2015
#194
Or if you didn't re-think it, you'd probably have the sense to keep it to yourself!
George II
Aug 2015
#212
Exactly! That's why Hillary never got the message from Stevens, because of the GOP congress.
hughee99
Aug 2015
#281
This is not why he died. If Stevens wanted, he could have driven to the airport a week before.
leveymg
Aug 2015
#313
I care that he was killed and about his family, who are surely still mourning.
PatrickforO
Aug 2015
#3
Republican budget cuts could not have kept his cables from Hillary Clinton's eyes.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#11
With all your bluster and rants, I'm not surprised that there isn't a single source for the stuff...
George II
Aug 2015
#196
An American Ambassador sends an URGENT message to the Secretary of State.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#14
No. My anger was directed at the people who MURDERED Ambassador Stevens.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#45
Eloquence is not your strong point? Or do you not HAVE an opposite point to make?
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#55
You don't buy my anger at the murder of an American Ambassador that might have been avoided.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#61
You are trying to hard. Don't bother because I can see right through your act.
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#68
My hidden post wasn't PC. I blamed extremist Muslims for his death. I earned the hide.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#83
You obviously haven't learned enough about the attack to talk about it. This is...
George II
Aug 2015
#185
I fault the DoD more than State as far as that goes. When everything was going to shit
TwilightGardener
Aug 2015
#9
So budget cuts affected whether or not Secretary Clinton saw URGENT messages from Ambassadors.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#17
Even after the Benghazi committee's official finding was that neither HRC or PBO made any mistakes.
freshwest
Aug 2015
#315
Maybe. I suspect all emails are seen, at least first, by some other members of the State Dept,
napi21
Aug 2015
#260
Laugh all you want. An American Ambassador is dead, as are the brave men who protected him.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#22
Some Dufus who lives (lived) in the L.A. suburb of Cerritos was and still is to blame for a video...
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#97
She killed Old Yeller, too. If that doesn't make you cry, you have no heart. n/t
freshwest
Aug 2015
#134
Yeah, it's supposed to be a measure of humanity according to the country song 'She Never Cried...'
freshwest
Aug 2015
#317
Back up from where, the military has already testified it was not possible to get backup in time, it
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#202
No backups available. Sigoella AFB in Sicily was the closest, but no planes available.
napi21
Aug 2015
#294
This just proves my point that there is a contingent of Sanders supporters that will post
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#18
Take your rhetorical device of comparing an opinion, ANY opinion you don't agree with...
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#23
I voted for Obama twice after supporting Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primaries.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#33
What this indicates to me is that you hate Hillary and will say anything including RW talking
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#37
Hate is the appropriate word. Sorry if that bothers you but i am not going to sugar coat it,
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#82
"This just proves my point that there is a contingent of Clinton supporters that will post
Hissyspit
Aug 2015
#210
I will agree there were a few porly chosen ops posted but it is nowhere near the garbage posted
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#211
Why the hell are you quoting republican talking points? How come you are not saying anything about
still_one
Aug 2015
#20
If she saw the requests she denies seeing, she's a liar. IF she saw them and didn't RUN to the press
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#26
I am not going to engage in your bullshit anymore. Go peddle your wares to someone else
still_one
Aug 2015
#34
I was just thinking--just now--that the "Whitewater" threads were the apex of that type of thinking
ismnotwasm
Aug 2015
#228
Actually, this sold right-wing bullshit. Suddenly the OP is outraged, and found Jesus. It is
still_one
Aug 2015
#39
Speak to your thoughts about Ambassador Christopher Stevens' murder.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#53
No you posted a look at me post. I d0am not buying into you right wing fantasy.
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#51
I'm not sure what that pig has to do with my opinion of whose fault the murder of an Ambassador is.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#75
You see, this is the part I don't get... I'm a TRASH man. I drive a trash truck.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#93
Yeah I guess it comes to me through a filling in a tooth or something.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#99
You're actually claiming to have no access to news media? That's about as honest as this OP-
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#270
Because there are no words that will keep shit from rolling uphill.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#67
We're talking Ambassadors. How many of them have been murdered in the last hundred years?
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#69
Expect some more tomorrow but I expect most Sanders supporters will be appalled at this garbage post
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#84
Oh yeah, unfortunately there's a couple more who are fine with goPropaganda on Benghaziiiii!
Cha
Aug 2015
#140
You should be embarrassed. You're spouting lies the Republicans' admitted weren't true.
SunSeeker
Aug 2015
#92
Leaving Clinton aside, there was obviously a failure in Benghazi--Stevens should have been in
TwilightGardener
Aug 2015
#102
The GOP cut embassy security. The agencies did the best they could with what they had.
SunSeeker
Aug 2015
#119
No, actually the agencies involved are responsible for their personnel, for security and evacuation.
TwilightGardener
Aug 2015
#129
Had you read the thread in its totality, you'd know I posted about Ambassador Stevens' death
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#103
If it bothers your beautiful mind so much, alert and see it gets removed.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#114
You are the one that implied anyone here didn't want to vote for a woman.
Live and Learn
Aug 2015
#138
You Criticized DU Members who went after REpublicans that voted against Hurricane Sandy Aid
JI7
Aug 2015
#111
I will always post against Americans who want to deny OTHER Americans aid because of their beliefs.
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2015
#124
we don't have room for names of all the people killed by obama policies. do you support him? nt
msongs
Aug 2015
#137
If Stevens was so security conscious, why did he leave the embassy for an unguarded outpost?
Vinca
Aug 2015
#156
The thing was, he didn't believe in the idea of embassy-as-fortress. He was a classic diplomat.
Demit
Aug 2015
#167
Shame on you for politicizing their deaths. Support whoever you want in the primary, but leave this
Metric System
Aug 2015
#157
Exactly Boo.. The Stevens Family asked the rw to stop politiciizing the death of their son.. and of
Cha
Aug 2015
#162
Cherokeeprogressive: another member of the Democratic Underground right wing spin machine.
Squinch
Aug 2015
#164
With posts like this, we don't need Repubs to tear our paty apart. We'll do it ourselves.
LonePirate
Aug 2015
#168
I am a Bernie supporter and I was on that jury and I voted to hide this bullshit.
Kali
Aug 2015
#284
This is blatant RW bluster and BS. Why don't you read about all of the investigations...
George II
Aug 2015
#182
Six congressional investigations have determined Sec'y Clinton did nothing wrong....
DonViejo
Aug 2015
#191
Thanks for providing a little dose of reality here. For a while I thought I'd stumbled...
George II
Aug 2015
#192
The RWers never fessed up and said their budget cutting did not leave enough money to provide the
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#222
We were so anxious to get rid of Gaddafi we didn't bother to plan for a replacement government
tularetom
Aug 2015
#206
He'll testify to the Benghazi committee with his facts next week. Waiting for updates. n/t
freshwest
Aug 2015
#246
Sorry, as a Bernie supporter, I'm rejecting the way over the top Republican-esque BS in this OP.
phleshdef
Aug 2015
#221
On a strictly technical note, we had neither an embassy nor an ambassador in Libya.
cheapdate
Aug 2015
#277
This is the same guy that busted a gut laughing at the black female attendee at Netroots Nation
Number23
Aug 2015
#306
Back in DU's better days, a post like this would have been removed by the mods
NYC Liberal
Aug 2015
#274
One reason why I miss the moderating system. And I say this as a Bernie supporter.
Luminous Animal
Aug 2015
#282
The OP is telling us the RW way to think.. I don't actually think they're "nice" at all and neither
Cha
Aug 2015
#283
Yeah, the BS supporter of this OP .. owns this. goPropaganda being pushed on DU in bernie's name.
Cha
Aug 2015
#300
Can someone please move this to Freerepublic.com. They would agree with the OP 100%.
Onlooker
Aug 2015
#301
it speaks volumes how low some of DU go by taking Republican misrepresentaions
still_one
Aug 2015
#303