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2016 Postmortem

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Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
Tue Jan 3, 2017, 10:37 AM Jan 2017

Attacks that would have been used effectively on Sanders if he were the Democratic nominee [View all]

Seeing this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2664743
brings up the point yet again that Sanders could have beaten Trump.

I think we should remind ourselves what a Sanders nomination would look like in detail, specifically the typical Republican attacks that would have been leveled against him.

Never mind the nuance to these points, Republicans don't do nuance, and they have a lot of potent anti-liberal talking points refined over decades.

1) over and over, he wants to raise your taxes, even on the middle class

2) over and over, he will enact job killing regulations (Sanders environmental plans)

3) he wants to hobble Wall Street by breaking up banks

4) he wants to redistribute your wealth (wink wink)

5) he's a socialist

6) he's a communist, a marxist

7) he's an old hippie

8) he praised communist dictators

9) he's not Christian and maybe he's even a godless atheist

10) he's pro-abortion

11) he's weird, creepy (his old writings)

12) he's too old

13) he had a child out of wedlock

Now I need to say, I don't mind any of these things myself. I voted for him in the primary. I loved so much of what he said.

However under his plans, my taxes would go up a lot under his plans. I don't mind it, I'm willing to pay more, but I think a lot of people wouldn't. The people in the news media sure wouldn't. Corporate America would not like it.

These attacks would be devastating, in my opinion, for his run. It's just super important to realize how blunt and effective Republican attacks can be, if you don't remember them yourself.

Would Sanders have done better in the rust-belt states with independent voters? Maybe, maybe not. There's no guarantee that independent voters wouldn't be strongly turned off by these GOP talking points. He may well have done much worse than HRC.

Yes, his favorability ratings were high, and that would have helped him. But those ratings were mostly because people didn't know him and he hadn't been subjected to GOP attacks.

Could Sanders have beaten back these attacks with his well-known powerful rhetoric? I think yes, somewhat. But I don't think he could have been strong enough to beat back all the attacks, and there's little doubt that the Dem party would not defended a lot of these attacks very well, because of their typical caution and trepidation. Plus, since Sanders was not a Democrat for most of his life, he would not get the same backing by the party, and there would be a lot of distancing.

So I understand that a lot of people on the left think this election was the best chance they had in ages to get New Deal/socialist candidate elected, and they are still mad that Sanders didn't get the nomination. They think the nomination was stolen from him, despite the actual evidence against that.

But the fact is, he lost the primary, and it wasn't that close, and he would NOT have had an easy time in the general election, at all.

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Will this stuff ever end? n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #1
what "stuff"? Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #3
The Bernie would/wouldn't have lost stuff. It accomplishes nothing. n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #5
It's all that some have left. NWCorona Jan 2017 #10
Do you post the same protests in the "Bernie wudda won!" threads? baldguy Jan 2017 #21
I don't go looking for them. n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #22
Of course. baldguy Jan 2017 #23
Whatever that means. I thought my post made it clear I dread seeing both. n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #28
well thank the gods we had hillary!!!! bowens43 Jan 2017 #2
that is a different issue, but I think she was a better candidate overall than Bernie Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #4
Thank God, indeed. lapucelle Jan 2017 #6
environmental racist-- meaning his environmental policies might preferentially affect minorities? Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #12
Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek saw the opposition research on Sanders, lapucelle Jan 2017 #15
ah, thanks. Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #62
lol. this. Joe941 Jan 2017 #61
I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion MiniMe Jan 2017 #7
Too bad we never had the chance to find out.... TheCowsCameHome Jan 2017 #8
I agree it would have been in fascinating to see it play out Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #13
If those are the attacks that Bernie would have faced in the GE NWCorona Jan 2017 #9
Really? Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #14
Yes. Really NWCorona Jan 2017 #19
Not really, there was a great deal of material Gothmog Jan 2017 #18
I don't take much stock in pundits who got very little right this election NWCorona Jan 2017 #20
Most apply to Warren HoneyBadger Jan 2017 #11
a lot of those things just don't have the power they used to, and I think Sanders could have JCanete Jan 2017 #16
I don't think we should under-estimate the power of rightwing bullshit after this past election Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #24
Sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign and there was a ton of material Gothmog Jan 2017 #17
that's a good piece, especially notable for when it was written Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #25
Sanders was treated with kid gloves Me. Jan 2017 #54
Think about what your premise is. HassleCat Jan 2017 #26
Favoring no restrictions at all on abortion.... bettyellen Jan 2017 #27
What restrictions are you in favor of? Just an honest question NWCorona Jan 2017 #32
I don't mind the current system that allows exceptions for the life and health for the mother or bettyellen Jan 2017 #36
I don't think it's weird. I believe it should be between a woman and her doctor NWCorona Jan 2017 #38
I think it's weird because it has zero support and would be a lightening rod for those religious bettyellen Jan 2017 #42
I can see it being a lightning rod as well but it's not like they would vote for him anyway NWCorona Jan 2017 #43
Well they would have used anything they could find. Unfortunately it's a big one for those bettyellen Jan 2017 #50
Yes they did. NWCorona Jan 2017 #56
What is it with this forum???? For some reason it's mired in looking behind rather than ahead. Vinca Jan 2017 #29
I'd vote for Bernie again in a heart beat. CentralMass Jan 2017 #30
Hillary's surrogates trotted out most of that already aikoaiko Jan 2017 #31
I keep waiting for info in that devastating op to drop. NWCorona Jan 2017 #33
There was a ton of good oppo on Sanders including tapes of his college course Gothmog Jan 2017 #34
This is nothing new and would only impact those that wouldn't have voted for him anyway. NWCorona Jan 2017 #37
Sanders was never vetted and so none of these materials had been used against Sanders Gothmog Jan 2017 #44
I never said that they wouldn't make effective ads I don't think they would have had NWCorona Jan 2017 #46
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Jan 2017 #48
And you want to school me on feelings. NWCorona Jan 2017 #49
That is because Sanders was running for media coverage and his efforts hurt the Democratic party Gothmog Jan 2017 #60
Match up polls are worthless Gothmog Jan 2017 #35
Maybe, but matchup polls said Hillary would lose to Trump and she did. They said Bernie would win. aikoaiko Jan 2017 #41
Go ask 538-I trust Nate Silver on this issue Gothmog Jan 2017 #45
538 may not have a good model when unconventional candidates are involved. aikoaiko Jan 2017 #47
How'd that work out for us....misplaced trust in my book Uggwearingdad Jan 2017 #57
The fact is, he generally outperformed Hillary in the rust belt, in the primaries. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #39
Yes. elleng Jan 2017 #52
I think we need to quit worrying about what the Republicans will say.. aidbo Jan 2017 #40
What's the point? HassleCat Jan 2017 #51
Except he wasn't the nominee, so why bring this up? The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2017 #53
Attack Attack attack..but just remember if Bernie Sanders had been the nominee we would INdemo Jan 2017 #55
Love your speculation lastone Jan 2017 #58
so in your mind, why do you think "DNC / DWS put their boot on Sanders campaign"? Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #63
No way to know how attacking Bernie as Socialist vs. his greater authenticity would have played out MrPurple Jan 2017 #59
Bernie had not even been tested/vetted, and was a bit thin-skinned. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #64
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