2016 Postmortem

Uponthegears

(1,499 posts)

31. And yet, we could not agree more on some things

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 05:23 PM

Dec 2016

Every person who voted for Trump is, at least in my mind, utterly unredeemable. While I know this may upset some, the fact is that Trump did not run on an economic agenda, or any other agenda for that matter. He ran on hate, nothing more nothing less.

That means that if they voted for Trump, they are one of two things. Either they are, well, "deplorable," in which case WE DON'T WANT THEM BACK. Or, they are so stupid that they believed Hillary was distinguishable (at least in the negative sense) from every male candidate that our party has ever run (subject to the Obama exception and he was probably one of a kind), in which case they are simply not worth the work it takes to bring them back into the fold.

My concern, and I believe it has carried over to the post mortem, is that Bernie's primary supporters (who were lumped in with the "deplorable" group during the primaries) are now being called "Trump supporters" when the statistics show they were actually the only economic demographic that were Hillary supporters. This to me bodes ill not for the past, but for the future.

For the reasons I explained in my first post, we can't count on a majority of white suburbanites to vote with us. They are the "deplorables." Bernie's sub-$50K voter base are hurting and they voted in a majority for Hillary anyway. They are not the actually-not-hurting-at-all $70K "Trump supporters." Cleaving off Bernie's base who we both want and need if we are to regain power quickly (and the future of this country and the people you and I both care about are in immediate danger if we don't) is simply a bad move.

I want to apologize for lumping you in with those posters (and yes, there are more than a few here) who are current party regulars/professionals who insist on arguing that white suburbanites remain the key to electoral victory and we cannot attract them without running as moderates AND who have made a concerted effort in this forum to blame what happened on "leftists" because they don't want the party to move to the left. I mistook your passion for an agenda. My rant was for them. I was obviously wrong to direct it at you. At this point, all I can offer is my apology.

Again, we are on the same side.

Thanks for listening.

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A word of advice about controlling the Democratic Party message [View all] BainsBane Dec 2016 OP

I think people should read the party platform and formulate their message. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #1

A number of people seem to confuse positions or message BainsBane Dec 2016 #2

Message is derived from positions. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #3

Unfortunately for many BainsBane Dec 2016 #6

Amen. nt brer cat Dec 2016 #39

Obviously we need as many good candidates as possible Uponthegears Dec 2016 #4

Hillary Clinton won voters earning under $50k BainsBane Dec 2016 #5

What utter tripe Uponthegears Dec 2016 #8

I didn't mention Sanders or his supporters BainsBane Dec 2016 #13

And yet, we could not agree more on some things Uponthegears Dec 2016 #31

please make this it's own op DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #28

+1000 PotatoChip Dec 2016 #51

"Clearly you don't sit down with those you disagree with." Are you referencing the poster? Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #9

Yes, I was BainsBane Dec 2016 #14

On a more concilatory note Uponthegears Dec 2016 #11

BB. +10000 Hekate Dec 2016 #12

Same here Gothmog Dec 2016 #33

Unfortunately some want to control the Democratic Party message from the outside. George II Dec 2016 #7

That is not an accurate gauge of whether a message can resonate with people. Just running and tyring JCanete Dec 2016 #10

But that's the thing, isn't it? bravenak Dec 2016 #17

Winning with our current party is fan-fiction that our leaders keep regurgitating and fawning over. JCanete Dec 2016 #23

I disagree with your analysis Gothmog Dec 2016 #18

How can you disagree with my analysis and then say if your campaign resonates, donors will JCanete Dec 2016 #21

Have you worked on a campaign? Gothmog Dec 2016 #32

who are those key groups? Who are the people usually engaged at this level? JCanete Dec 2016 #35

Again, you are not answering my question Gothmog Dec 2016 #37

So, the premise I was responding to was basically "if your ideas are so hot prove it JCanete Dec 2016 #40

Again, go work with a county party or on a real campaign Gothmog Dec 2016 #42

sad and wrong... your words are the things I was saying were reinforcing my argument. Not that I JCanete Dec 2016 #46

In the real world the concern is electability and being competitive Gothmog Dec 2016 #53

now you're basically saying that in the "real world" donors don't give a shit about policy, just JCanete Dec 2016 #55

I understand there are all kinds of obstacles to running BainsBane Dec 2016 #22

Where I agree with you is that refighting the primary is pointless, and that energy spent JCanete Dec 2016 #27

my problem with your analsysis BainsBane Dec 2016 #38

That recurring theme about rhetoric versus policy--excuse me for being cute--is rhetoric. JCanete Dec 2016 #41

You do know that Sanders outspent Clinton in most primaries? Gothmog Dec 2016 #43

but that is nothing compared to the megaphone that went out over the corporate media from JCanete Dec 2016 #47

Again, you are wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #52

okay, I see, you're not responding to what I'm posting, just to a preconceived notion you already JCanete Dec 2016 #54

Rhetoric is meaningless BainsBane Dec 2016 #45

Except that I didn't say populist rhetoric was good just cuz it feels good to hear it. JCanete Dec 2016 #48

You relied on his claim BainsBane Dec 2016 #49

Well that's not exactly fair. He's a Presidential Candidate. He could have said "this is the only JCanete Dec 2016 #50

DU does not reflect the Democratic Party or the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #15

Interesting ticket split in your county BainsBane Dec 2016 #16

Yep Gothmog Dec 2016 #19

Another way is for everyone to call their Democratic congressmen, lots of them, and OFTEN mtnsnake Dec 2016 #20

Would you actually call based on rhetoric you want them to use? BainsBane Dec 2016 #24

Do you honestly think that tons of people here are going to follow your advice mtnsnake Dec 2016 #30

No, but you're advocating calling representatives BainsBane Dec 2016 #34

I would encourage those that aren't the type to run to still get involved and proactively seek good think Dec 2016 #25

I agree local politics are key BainsBane Dec 2016 #26

A grad student I talked with today told me my generation was at fault. redstatebluegirl Dec 2016 #29

Great idea, BB. Too bad Zephyr Teachout's message didn't Cha Dec 2016 #36

And the Sanders supported candidate running against DWS also lost Gothmog Dec 2016 #44