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2016 Postmortem

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Cary

(11,746 posts)
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 02:46 PM Dec 2016

Looking back I, personally, see no benefit to Democrats from Sanders or his supporters [View all]

We need closed primaries.

Of course that's just my personal opinion and I'm sure I will see verbal abuse here for having that opinion. I am not suggesting that Sanders or his supporters aren't entitled to whatever. I am simply saying that I can't see how they helped the Democratic Party or our cause. In fact the negativity, in my opinion, was just that and remains. I hear this and that about the Democratic Party and I can't see how it's helpful.

So the Democratic Party is what it is. It has a purpose. It's an important purpose. It's not going away and I don't see the negative commentators doing a whole lot about anything. I just don't see it both in real terms and practical terms. So to me the conclusion is that we have to stop trying to please people and attend to our business. To me that means closed primaries.

If you can't be a Democrat, so be it. Yes, I want to be inclusive. Yes, we should come together. However the metric in the title to my post, as provocative as some will take, really says it all. What benefit do you offer to the coalition?

What benefit do you offer? And if you can't be a member of the Party, which is what exactly? Not much. If you can't be positive about who and what we are then why should we care about you? Those who are negative have made it clear that they are determined to remain negative and how dare anyone suggest that maybe they should, for their own interests, dial that back a little? And this is true, especially now, when we have a psychopath and ADHD in the White House. We can't unite behind our opposition to that?

Of course we can and we have. What are we up to? 64 and a half million? Is that a Party in distress? I don't think so. And like hell if I'm not pissed off. I need my Party. I love my Party and if you don't, fuck off + die.

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And I'm sorry, this wasn't meant to be an attack on Sanders' supporters per se Cary Dec 2016 #1
It did come off as more "It's all Bernie's fault" Uponthegears Dec 2016 #68
Unfortunately many Sanders supporters have postures it as such Cary Dec 2016 #71
It's hard to reconcile your perspective angrychair Dec 2016 #140
Pretty sure I'm part of the majority Cary Dec 2016 #145
With us or against us? angrychair Dec 2016 #162
I have said over and over that I am for Democrats and against divisiveness Cary Dec 2016 #184
Hey some of us do think Sen. Sanders caused the loss...with the bitter divided primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #202
"Refuses to join Democrats "? angrychair Dec 2016 #212
What do we do when you have a minority of us who demand to have their ideological way, totally? Cary Dec 2016 #227
That is very non-specific angrychair Dec 2016 #234
Everything is "very non-specific." Cary Dec 2016 #236
So what do we do? Cary Dec 2016 #228
This EffieBlack Dec 2016 #154
I think you're wrong! dembychoice Dec 2016 #208
I respect your opinion (but disagree) Uponthegears Dec 2016 #209
The only explanation I have for Trump is that Cary Dec 2016 #230
My point of view is as legitimate as anyone else's Cary Dec 2016 #229
Can't disagree with you Uponthegears Dec 2016 #243
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #117
And that mindset is why the Indys and cross-over Republicans ran away. Tim Kaine led to Loss TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #134
it was only worded that way NRQ891 Dec 2016 #139
Yeah that's real believable. "Fuck off + die" el_bryanto Dec 2016 #232
Hard to grow the party with that kind of attitude. Nt ALBliberal Dec 2016 #2
Yes, so terrible to want people to be positive. Cary Dec 2016 #5
yeah, positive like you. pangaia Dec 2016 #81
Why not start a Cary sucks thread? Cary Dec 2016 #85
nobody says Cary sucks. I don't say Cary sucks. Why would I start such a thread? pangaia Dec 2016 #92
I suggest you look up the word facetious Cary Dec 2016 #104
what forum would you like it in? nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #101
LOL !! pangaia Dec 2016 #105
You already have. /nt tonedevil Dec 2016 #102
Thank you Mr/Ms devil. pangaia Dec 2016 #107
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #3
Chuck Schumer seems to think it's a good idea to embrace many of Bernie's issues and ideas: think Dec 2016 #4
Hillary did that. radical noodle Dec 2016 #32
Nobody believed her though. That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #124
You think anyone could have done it without a fight? radical noodle Dec 2016 #176
I am speaking for myself. That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #183
You clearly said NOBODY believed her radical noodle Dec 2016 #185
Did she win the election? That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #186
You're going around in circles. Cary Dec 2016 #244
That's a wise public posture from a canny politician. lapucelle Dec 2016 #88
Chuck Schumer is trying to erase his eff-up about "moderate republicans" replacing blue-collar votes That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #126
The interests Bernie embaraced have been longstanding issues that many Democrats embrace. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #204
This is odd Uponthegears Dec 2016 #6
That's the point. Cary Dec 2016 #8
We had a closed causus here in Iowa. stone space Dec 2016 #7
Fine. I have nothing against Bernie. Cary Dec 2016 #9
Your OP directly counters that statement. Nt dionysus Dec 2016 #199
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #201
My error Cary Dec 2016 #214
We had a closed primary election here in NY lapucelle Dec 2016 #94
NY isn't exactly the shining example of how things should be done, though. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #173
Really? Why not? lapucelle Dec 2016 #187
I more meant the inability to switch party long before the election. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #189
It is not difficult at all to change party affiliation in NY. lapucelle Dec 2016 #195
I agree 100%. asuhornets Dec 2016 #10
It's Official re: Millennials otohara Dec 2016 #115
I knew it...They weren't even born doing the Clinton years..nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #119
So they were born in the GWB or Reagan years? NobodyHere Dec 2016 #172
They were babies during the Clinton years. They believed what they heard in the media...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #178
That's my read exactly. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #160
I just don't get it. Whatever Bernie promised, they definitely will not be getting it now. asuhornets Dec 2016 #161
It's fascinating to read sites like JPR ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #177
Yeah, he "dissed" Democrats for years by being one of the few SOLID liberal votes... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #219
... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #220
Not all states require voters to select a Political Party at voter registration time Larkspur Dec 2016 #11
The same is true for Texas but when you vote in the first primary of a cycle, you are locked in Gothmog Dec 2016 #54
Are you committed to that party for life or until the next primary year? Larkspur Dec 2016 #82
Ds could pay for and run their own primaries in such states stopbush Dec 2016 #90
I thought the DNC controlled who gets to vote lapucelle Dec 2016 #111
I wish every state stopped allowing those who are not registered to vote in the primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #206
States do stop unregistered voters from voting. Larkspur Dec 2016 #211
Well sure is great for Bernie to caucus with the Dems. Thankful the Dem leadership has a more ALBliberal Dec 2016 #12
What will closed primaries accomplish? TXCritter Dec 2016 #13
What I'm really disconcerted about is the JPR kind of stuff Cary Dec 2016 #14
Why? TXCritter Dec 2016 #17
Because it's mostly lies Cary Dec 2016 #20
You do realize that Democrats lie too... chwaliszewski Dec 2016 #39
Lying is part of being human ok? katsy Dec 2016 #59
Correct Cary Dec 2016 #72
Bernie lied about releasing his tax records.... and that's actually relevant, since Trump bettyellen Dec 2016 #77
Sounds right to me Cary Dec 2016 #79
"Just saying" what, exactly? Cary Dec 2016 #65
There are plenty of lies right here, too, Cary. Pushed repeatedly. And repeatedly. We need JudyM Dec 2016 #128
We lost WI, MI and PA by what? Cary Dec 2016 #131
You could say any number of things would've made the difference. More than a few things she JudyM Dec 2016 #133
Bull. It is his fault. Trump thanked Bernie for giving him his ammo against Clinton. R B Garr Dec 2016 #222
Democrats need to pick the nominees of the Democratic Party Gothmog Dec 2016 #56
I don't see how that helps TXCritter Dec 2016 #73
I saw the response and disagreed with it strongly Gothmog Dec 2016 #122
I can't say it better than this TXCritter Dec 2016 #194
That post is also weak and does not convince me at all Gothmog Dec 2016 #213
I could say the same. TXCritter Dec 2016 #215
I was a delegate to the national convention and to deal with bernie supporters Gothmog Dec 2016 #223
If you are the manager of a baseball team... NeoConsSuck Dec 2016 #190
And I don't claim to know. It just sounded right to me. Cary Dec 2016 #18
What I hear you saying is that you want to become the Green Party TXCritter Dec 2016 #24
No. I just don't want people who claim to be Democrats feeding me Republican b.s. Cary Dec 2016 #31
So you favor the echo chamber. TXCritter Dec 2016 #51
I guess since you decree it, then it must be so. Cary Dec 2016 #74
Sure. Have your opinion. TXCritter Dec 2016 #75
Let people who hate Democrats go elsewhere Cary Dec 2016 #78
There are 65,000,000 voters in that echo chamber. lapucelle Dec 2016 #97
And apparently that wasn't enough. TXCritter Dec 2016 #116
It was more than enough. lapucelle Dec 2016 #129
Let me make sure I understand this TXCritter Dec 2016 #169
One plus about Bernie is that he is leading the fight against Trump flamingdem Dec 2016 #15
Funny the only two people out there kacekwl Dec 2016 #57
yeah, that struck me also... pangaia Dec 2016 #87
...and we have a winner! Go Bernie Go!! nt Lucky Luciano Dec 2016 #123
+100000 azmom Dec 2016 #166
Yep. Everyone else is keeping their powder dry. You know, for GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #180
He should. He helped WhiteTara Dec 2016 #152
Lots of reasons TRUMP may end up in kacekwl Dec 2016 #167
He offered to work with Trump... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #205
A party in distress is one PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #16
closed primaries would IMO help speed up a more viable 3rd Party n/t RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #19
So what? Cary Dec 2016 #21
I did not say it would be good or bad however RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #23
I'll believe it when I see it Cary Dec 2016 #27
I was replying to Closing the Dem (and Repub) Primaries RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #36
I have to disagree. If Clinton lost to Trump with all of his negatives... That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #136
we dont know but RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #168
There will never be a real viable 3rd party that lasts more than one election cycle BzaDem Dec 2016 #50
people didn't give a shit about what party Sanders was. If he ran as independent he would have split Sunlei Dec 2016 #22
were there a lot of unreal people who voted for her in the primaries? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #25
I don't know I went primary for Sanders because I wanted his message heard, then I voted Hilary. Sunlei Dec 2016 #34
she and sanders would have made an incoherent team. you cannot pick a vp who for months La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #38
sorry, I do not agree. They're both team players. as others have told me. moot point now. Sunlei Dec 2016 #49
Then why try to hijack the Party? Cary Dec 2016 #30
He didn't hijack Republicans, they let him in and love that he's president today. Sunlei Dec 2016 #35
Calling it hijacking is subjective. Exilednight Dec 2016 #112
There was no hijacking. Senator Sanders saltpoint Dec 2016 #143
I'm not a real people? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #45
I meant 'real people' like the people of detroit, 90,000 blank ballots. Or Flint, more thousands Sunlei Dec 2016 #67
Idk but for me personally, being anthing but a big tent party means aspiring to be gop katsy Dec 2016 #26
A few of my ex-friends went so far as to swear that Hillary Clinton was a criminal Cary Dec 2016 #29
And all of mine showed ip for HRC! katsy Dec 2016 #41
was terrible the unfair treatment Hillary got from so very many people. worse than even Obama got. Sunlei Dec 2016 #44
So so very true. katsy Dec 2016 #53
I don't want anyone ignored Cary Dec 2016 #33
Agreed. katsy Dec 2016 #43
I agree that open primaries are stupid radical noodle Dec 2016 #28
Looking back, I personally, see no benefit to Democrats from Clinton or her supporters. SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #37
You do not want a third party that attracts liberals away from the Democratic Party, and then JCanete Dec 2016 #40
Democrats voted for Bernie because he fought for progressive policies many "Democrats" wouldn't yurbud Dec 2016 #42
Not sure I entirely agree but nothing bad about what younwru wrote BigBadDem Dec 2016 #46
So, those of us who dared to support him in the primaries are just to leave YOUR Bettie Dec 2016 #47
Bettie, kacekwl Dec 2016 #61
Yes. OnionPatch Dec 2016 #165
I had and still have a problem with Bernie jumping RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #48
I strongly agree that we need closed primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #52
We can't be a party for left leaning independents and Democrats...join the party Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #55
If this is just an argument about closed primaries, Sanders isn't a compelling case. David Clark is. RAFisher Dec 2016 #58
I was initially for Bernie because his positions on almost every issue were most similar to mine. diane in sf Dec 2016 #60
Party in distress BlindTiresias Dec 2016 #62
This is a prime example. Cary Dec 2016 #64
Whiny? BlindTiresias Dec 2016 #138
You're the one doing the whining. The Democratic saltpoint Dec 2016 #146
You're lucky I have no power to wish people into the corn field.... Cary Dec 2016 #149
I grew up around corn fields, Cary. saltpoint Dec 2016 #150
Obviously you have no idea what I'm talking about. Cary Dec 2016 #156
I think it may be that you are saltpoint Dec 2016 #157
I do not liquid diamond Dec 2016 #63
Had Sanders run as an independent, saltpoint Dec 2016 #151
The benefit I offer is my vote. But if the dems don't want it . . . CrispyQ Dec 2016 #66
I know people who shit talked and posted Brietbart smears about HRC and ultimately voted for her ... bettyellen Dec 2016 #80
I offered my vote. LP2K12 Dec 2016 #69
Not sure what exactly is your point here ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #70
If I lumped you I'm sorry Cary Dec 2016 #76
You lumped a hella lot of people, dude. Raster Dec 2016 #83
Well, dude, I tried my best Cary Dec 2016 #86
Not worth the effort. Raster Dec 2016 #91
Then why put in the "effort" polluting my attempts at discussion? Cary Dec 2016 #99
Sort of like claiming Sanders supporters hate the party like you've done in this thread? mythology Dec 2016 #174
THIS X 1000 stopbush Dec 2016 #84
I'm an example of a benefit. retrowire Dec 2016 #89
I have no objective evidence Cary Dec 2016 #96
She certainly had a lot against her. I can't disagree. Nt retrowire Dec 2016 #110
Resistance first. Inner party politics later. crosinski Dec 2016 #93
Not necessary .... just another part of the circular firing squad nt Persondem Dec 2016 #95
The Democratic Party is not a parliamentary type party. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #98
It's a private organization Cary Dec 2016 #100
But my point is if you ask 100 people what a Democrat is, you might receive 60 different answers. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #103
And my point is the party can do what it wants Cary Dec 2016 #106
True, as Sanders workers found out. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #108
'Some people feel entitled. They're mistaken.' NRQ891 Dec 2016 #130
I'm so happy for you Cary Dec 2016 #132
as am I nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #135
Respectfully disagree with every portion of this post hueymahl Dec 2016 #109
We need Same Day registration, open primaries, early voting, and a national holiday to vote. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #113
I supported Hillary but I'm getting into blame game RandySF Dec 2016 #114
lulz Rex Dec 2016 #118
'Looking back I, personally, see no benefit to Democrats from HILLARY or her supporters.' BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #120
Damn straight! hueymahl Dec 2016 #141
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' is a good read for anyone who is concerned with how we got here nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #121
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #125
Why we need a new Democratic Party in this age of Trump -- and what we need it to do.Robert Reich elleng Dec 2016 #127
Plus 1. The OP should give this a saltpoint Dec 2016 #142
Thanks, saltpoint. elleng Dec 2016 #147
You chose a great piece. It would go saltpoint Dec 2016 #148
Thanks. Will repost. elleng Dec 2016 #153
George W and Jeb Bush hurt Hillary as well NRQ891 Dec 2016 #137
Oh good fucking gawd. Iggo Dec 2016 #144
I believe in closed primaries and glad we have them in NY, but... hrmjustin Dec 2016 #155
States decide how their primaries or caucuses proceed. BainsBane Dec 2016 #158
ABSOLUTELY - closed primaries!!! DrDan Dec 2016 #159
Most of Sanders' supporters are Democrats democrattotheend Dec 2016 #163
Would be nice if there were more FDR Democrats running lostnfound Dec 2016 #164
Amen to that! PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #170
I dont fully agree. Internationalist Dec 2016 #171
Trying to make primaries non-competitive is a surefire recipe to lose. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #175
Fine. Close the Primaries, and open the debates. We need more choices in GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #179
Nope. Non viable candidates should have no platform. Nt duffyduff Dec 2016 #181
Then don't complain if a Primary echo chamber doesn't put a strong GE candidate on the ticket. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #182
Oh gee, republicans had how many candidates in the primary this time? LisaL Dec 2016 #198
IIRC he also won the general election too. Glassunion Dec 2016 #240
We should have run Joe Biden obliviously Dec 2016 #188
Here is your actual problem quaker bill Dec 2016 #191
Please stop A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2016 #193
Hard to say... since he wasn't on the ticket FBaggins Dec 2016 #192
Yea, he just lost the primary. LisaL Dec 2016 #197
Exactly. Far less embarrassing. n/t FBaggins Dec 2016 #203
You don't know what you're talking about. This sanders supporter dionysus Dec 2016 #196
I agree with you. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #200
Whether you supported Sen. Sanders or not( I did not and admit I dislike him at this point), Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #207
I do. Orsino Dec 2016 #210
Other than needing them to win an election. Exilednight Dec 2016 #216
Needing people who would cut my throat and stab me in the back? Cary Dec 2016 #217
What exactly is the "radical left"? Exilednight Dec 2016 #218
The word "radical" is well-defined Cary Dec 2016 #225
It's a subjective word. what I view as radical probably will Exilednight Dec 2016 #233
So what if it's subjective? Cary Dec 2016 #235
"I'm not all that interested in debating the matter" Without debate nothing Exilednight Dec 2016 #237
Actually it's been the other way around Cary Dec 2016 #238
I'm not the one calling people radicals who disagree with me. Exilednight Dec 2016 #239
Then good luck EVER winning again. alarimer Dec 2016 #221
lol, at least this is a clear message that you don't care about winning. R B Garr Dec 2016 #224
Nice to know you R B Garr Cary Dec 2016 #226
Nice to know you, too, Cary. R B Garr Dec 2016 #241
I don't think the divisiveness is going away Cary Dec 2016 #242
I also think many are invested in the divisiveness, and it sure looks like R B Garr Dec 2016 #245
Absolutely Cary Dec 2016 #246
You should have just stuck with that last line el_bryanto Dec 2016 #231
Members of the Democratic Party should be picking the Democratic nominee Gothmog Dec 2016 #247
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