2016 Postmortem

David__77

(23,486 posts)

148. I don't expect that there's any problem with posting the criticisms in your post.

Mon Nov 28, 2016, 08:02 PM

Nov 2016

There are no presidential candidates now, and there's no electoral campaign underway now. I do think it would be good for individuals to refrain from using things like invalidating nicknames for Democratic public figures or the supporters of those figures. I am hopeful that discussion can include criticism of Democratic public figures.

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There's no good reason to anathematize Bernie and his supporters. [View all] Ken Burch Nov 2016 OP

Yes, thank you Lizz612 Nov 2016 #1

Nor would it be possible FBaggins Nov 2016 #2

Nobody wants to purge anybody emulatorloo Nov 2016 #3

That's what all the attacks on Bernie are about. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #4

Ken, Bernie's not a sacred cow and above criticism. None of our politicians are. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #9

And another thing ... emulatorloo Nov 2016 #10

Bernie played a big role in electing trump and is a subject of valid commentary Gothmog Nov 2016 #145

That's simply not true. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #146

The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them The Presidential Election Gothmog Nov 2016 #153

I am not disputing your comment about the emails BUT nvme Nov 2016 #183

That was a rant piece written by a vindictive Clinton campaign staffer. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #196

Again you are wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #232

With that line of thinking, answer me this... chwaliszewski Nov 2016 #170

False (nt) bekkilyn Nov 2016 #175

Someone made a post questioning Bernie got a bunch of recs so.... SaschaHM Nov 2016 #5

I never WANTED Clinton supporters anathemized. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #11

Really? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #28

Lol, sure Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #31

Thank you. budkin Nov 2016 #6

The Bernie supporters ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #7

I have nothing to do with JPR-please don't associate me with them. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #12

I never said you did. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #16

I totally agree about people radical noodle Nov 2016 #78

Ya know, in all the canvassing I did for Hillary, I never once met a Bernie supporter who didn't progressoid Nov 2016 #21

Ever read ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #22

Which accounts for how much of the electorate? progressoid Nov 2016 #40

What does this have to do ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #42

Another part of that group that couldn't be bothered to vote for her. progressoid Nov 2016 #46

Where is your evidence to support that hyperbolic claim? spooky3 Nov 2016 #157

In 2012, Obama got 93% of AA vote and 71% of the Hispanic vote. progressoid Nov 2016 #166

Why in the world would anyone be surprised spooky3 Nov 2016 #168

Spooky, if they don't believe in those jobs coming back, then what the hell else... Barack_America Nov 2016 #190

Misogyny? Kentonio Nov 2016 #202

Um, Milwaukee? Detroit? Cleveland? Barack_America Nov 2016 #188

So what? From what I've heard, there are about 200 folks over there. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #130

I don't care how many of them there are. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #141

Does it need to be a place where Hillary is given papal infallibility? Ken Burch Nov 2016 #143

I think the fact ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #150

I think we need to say "Hatred, no. Lies, no. Legitimate constructive critique yes". Ken Burch Nov 2016 #194

Thank you for your thoughtful response. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #198

Ah the old JPR nonsense.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #203

I met quite a lot who refused to bother to vote, or insisted on voting for Stein, despite literally synergie Nov 2016 #56

Creative allegation validating a bias, regardless of its veracity. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #134

Good thinking - I remember that sentiment before the general election. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #60

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #104

Call it venom, if you like. But that is my position. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #123

Why keep calling them Bernie supporters? bekkilyn Nov 2016 #178

You're absolutely right. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #181

I understand that reasoning, but... bekkilyn Nov 2016 #187

I totally agree with you. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #189

I wasn't all that thrilled with Hillary at first bekkilyn Nov 2016 #197

Well said. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #199

Privilege bekkilyn Nov 2016 #219

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #124

You do understand ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #126

Did you ever stop and wonder why you had come to 'loathe' a decent, hardworking progressive? Kentonio Nov 2016 #204

Have you asked yourself that about Clinton? BainsBane Nov 2016 #209

Why would you assume that I loathe Clinton? Kentonio Nov 2016 #210

I think the reasons for the defeat are many BainsBane Nov 2016 #215

Ok, well you've made quite a few sweeping assumptions in there. Kentonio Nov 2016 #216

You are misinformed BainsBane Nov 2016 #218

I told you I was interested in your opinion, I didn't say I'd let it go unchallenged. Kentonio Nov 2016 #221

Didn't have to do any wonderin'. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #229

Who argued American voters do not get to select the candidates best representing their interest? LanternWaste Nov 2016 #136

This is just silly. SpareribSP Nov 2016 #169

Bernie wasn't the nominee. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #172

There were a bunch of factors as to why she lost killbotfactory Nov 2016 #8

And at some level, that may have been by design. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #14

Except polling showed she's was very popular with real world Democrats. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #15

... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #18

Voting overall was down among the population compared to last year killbotfactory Nov 2016 #25

And yet she won the popular vote anyway. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #26

Thanks to solid blue states, many of which were won by Bernie in the primary. killbotfactory Nov 2016 #51

This is the truth so many at the DNC do not want to hear hueymahl Nov 2016 #77

... or "cause I'm a woman and it's about time to break the glass ceiling." JudyM Nov 2016 #171

Yep, you can always win with 35% Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #32

Who said anything about winning w 35%? Nobody. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #34

You did, post 15 Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #35

Um no. I did not say we can win a national election w just democrats emulatorloo Nov 2016 #41

Again, you argue against a point no one has made. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #139

What's a "real world Democrat?" Exilednight Nov 2016 #84

That is literally not true La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #69

That literally is true hueymahl Nov 2016 #79

she won more self identified democrats than sanders did during the primaries. nt La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #97

Great. Then why did Bill and Hillary spend their last 30 years trying to appeal to killbotfactory Nov 2016 #200

Challenging bernie's ideas is not isolating him.. JHan Nov 2016 #13

so aside from you, most attacks on Bernie lately have hardly been about his ideas, wouldn't you say? JCanete Nov 2016 #108

Yes, mostly his strategy hurt the party. This is a legitimate criticism. JHan Nov 2016 #109

those aren't challenges to his ideas. Those are challenges to whether or not a candidate should JCanete Nov 2016 #111

The issue is political... JHan Nov 2016 #116

See, the thing is in my opinion a legitimate criticism is to say, lets actually follow the money. JCanete Nov 2016 #119

Okay.. however.. JHan Nov 2016 #120

I can tell that JCante's point was totally lost on you. Exilednight Nov 2016 #185

Anyway I sum up my issues this year in this thread... JHan Nov 2016 #117

I agree whole heartedly mythology Nov 2016 #17

I am a fervent Bernie supporter TheLibIn615 Nov 2016 #19

I also don't agree with all of Bernie's post-election choices Ken Burch Nov 2016 #37

Ken, I think you are mistaken. I do not see anyone advocating the party move right. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #43

No one is advocating abandoning the civil rights commitment. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #48

"Identity Politics" emulatorloo Nov 2016 #55

Bernie just meant add an equal commitment to economic justice TO that commitment. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #98

I'm not talking about Bernie. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #106

My assumption was that you are angry because he used that phrase in his speech the other day. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #125

Your assumption was incorrect. I am concerned about those who may willfully misread it. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #138

NAMES, please! BlueProgressive Nov 2016 #49

Triangulation, moving right to attract "moderate republicans" killbotfactory Nov 2016 #54

The center will attack the left with all they have. They hate us, for real. DemocraticWing Nov 2016 #20

We're all on the left here. Enough! Our goals and values are the same. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #23

Word! JHan Nov 2016 #226

Good post hueymahl Nov 2016 #80

1. Succinctly well put and essential for folks here to understand, who don't seem to see it. JudyM Nov 2016 #173

Well said. nt dflprincess Nov 2016 #179

1. VulgarPoet Nov 2016 #223

Stop. Demonizing. People.Who.Sincerely.Disagree. With .You. JHan Nov 2016 #228

I strongly disagree Gothmog Nov 2016 #24

In my opinion liquid diamond Nov 2016 #27

I am sure you accept Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #33

Well, a DEMOCRAT lost to the orange fuhrer elmac Nov 2016 #36

And the independent lost to a Democrat. It WAS the Democratic primary, after all bravenak Nov 2016 #44

Yes it was hueymahl Nov 2016 #92

It really doesnt matter since he is not a democrat anymore. Maybe he would have left the party bravenak Nov 2016 #94

Interesting. hueymahl Nov 2016 #113

IMO, the Democrats, should be democratic... immoderate Nov 2016 #82

Anathematize ??? grantcart Nov 2016 #29

Yeah, I think that's what it's supposed to be... GReedDiamond Nov 2016 #45

Ok, I changed it. Anything else to say here? Ken Burch Nov 2016 #52

The hatred of him and his supporters Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #30

The hatred of Hillary and her supporters sheshe2 Nov 2016 #39

No correction needed Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #59

That's right. There's hostility of a different order, and it's rarely about his ideas, except JudyM Nov 2016 #174

... mcar Nov 2016 #74

many look at Bernie and his Bros as the Nader of 2016, along with Stein Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #47

Then they are ridiculous, considering Bernie didn't run as a spoiler. Kentonio Nov 2016 #205

the meme of "Bernie as spoiler" is really already cemented in with millions upon millions Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #211

... LexVegas Nov 2016 #65

You seem to be one of the most prolific murielm99 Nov 2016 #38

THANK YOU so much for posting this! nt Raine Nov 2016 #50

:thumbsup: elleng Nov 2016 #53

Agreed. Thank you Arazi Nov 2016 #57

This was a "change" election and the DNC chose not to heed why. nt MaeScott Nov 2016 #58

They live in "conventional wisdom" like a large segment of our media. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #61

Outside the top line, there was very little change. TwilightZone Nov 2016 #62

Plus 1. Thanks for being fact-based. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #105

The DNC could not overturn the will of primary voters La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #70

Hmm. But it's OK to anathematize the DNC, the "establishment", "corporate Dems", DanTex Nov 2016 #63

I used to ADORE Bernie because I lived in Vermont for a long time and am familiar with him NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #64

Even with Bernie campaigning for Clinton he still gets blaimed. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #66

Perhaps if all the ugly, disgusting stuff was never spewed at JPR it would be different NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #147

So because someone on the internet said something that you didn't like you're going to... That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #160

Bernie is too extreme left in his positions for my tastes NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #191

I didn't say Trump or the GOP would be at Standing Rock That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #201

And what of all the multitudes of Bernie supporters here? bekkilyn Nov 2016 #184

The Bernie supporters who did all they could to prevent Trump from winning are not the ones I mean NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #192

I'm aware of the hateful stuff but they aren't really Bernie supporters. bekkilyn Nov 2016 #195

Always with the unsubstantiated hyperbole La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #67

Why would anyone do that? MineralMan Nov 2016 #71

Tell Bernie, who isn't a Dem and is still throwing shade at our nominee. nt Maven Nov 2016 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #102

Once again, tell Bernie. He can't seem to let the bitterness from the campaign go. nt Maven Nov 2016 #103

The guy energized millions of people who felt totally disenfranchized by the political system. Kentonio Nov 2016 #206

I am a former Bernie supporter Lifelong Protester Nov 2016 #73

On average, my first week or so since DU has returned tells me: MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #75

Superb post. Kentonio Nov 2016 #207

yes... thank you for posting!! (n/t) berksdem Nov 2016 #76

Absolutely - but I would not frame it as "Bernie Supporters" BlueStreak Nov 2016 #81

"DU has always been strongly biased toward the DLCers." TwilightZone Nov 2016 #85

Many of those people were summarily banned from the site BlueStreak Nov 2016 #90

Yes, when they decided to support Trump over Clinton. DanTex Nov 2016 #121

I don't know of a single such case BlueStreak Nov 2016 #128

Check JPR, you'll find plenty. DanTex Nov 2016 #129

The problem goes back a lot farther. BlueStreak Nov 2016 #132

You asked for examples, I gave them. Have you looked at JPR? DanTex Nov 2016 #176

I have and I have seen nothing I would call "cheering Trump" BlueStreak Nov 2016 #180

Then you haven't looked. JPR is a pro-Trump site. DanTex Nov 2016 #186

That is not true. There is a diverse population at JPR BlueStreak Nov 2016 #220

LOL "DU in the center-right direction". DanTex Nov 2016 #222

You are misleading people on this BlueStreak Nov 2016 #230

Yes, now that Trump won, they aren't telling people to vote Trump anymore. DanTex Nov 2016 #231

"It isn't about Bernie. It is about backbone." liberalla Nov 2016 #95

But instead what we have is BlueStreak Nov 2016 #114

Totally agree. Obama agrees, too. Clinton agrees, too. No more scapegoating. As Obama says, ancianita Nov 2016 #83

Thanks, Ken. I had to trash one thread here. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #86

I don't blame Bernie supporters for our loss. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #89

The idea that only Bernie and his supporters are 'left' is ridiculous. Bernie is not a Democrat. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #88

I think that Sanders will have to earn the support of Democrats. lapucelle Nov 2016 #91

Democrats should be thanking Bernie for actually revealing the voter base they now must win. ancianita Nov 2016 #93

Definitely! liberalla Nov 2016 #96

Sanders may have been named the chair of the Budget Committee had the Democrats lapucelle Nov 2016 #110

Agreed. Except Schumer knows that Bernie will whip unity. Closing ranks is first. The mechanics ancianita Nov 2016 #115

Schumer is a canny politician, so it will be interesting to see lapucelle Nov 2016 #149

Schumer sees Bernie as unifying because Bernie got the base excited, which made Schumer ancianita Nov 2016 #155

I think you're confusing the base with new voters and/or changing demographics. lapucelle Nov 2016 #164

I hear you, but I do think voter loyalty shifts, even with age, depend on their changing interests. ancianita Nov 2016 #165

Re Comey, Who appointed him? BlueStreak Nov 2016 #118

I'm so angry at Obama about both the Supreme Court and Comey. lapucelle Nov 2016 #142

Thanks Ken flamingdem Nov 2016 #99

k & r ancianita Nov 2016 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #101

Too bad, too. But too many threads reveal just that. We NEED all the allies and know-how we ancianita Nov 2016 #156

I see no problem with criticism of Sanders or Clinton. David__77 Nov 2016 #107

We aren't allowed to criticize one of them. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #122

Who aren't you allowed to criticize? David__77 Nov 2016 #127

I received what amounted to a final warning after I simply pointed out BlueStreak Nov 2016 #131

Why was it so hard for some to accept that those of us who pointed those things out... Ken Burch Nov 2016 #144

Thank you for this post.......I relate to your sentiments *so deeply*. pablo_marmol Nov 2016 #177

I don't expect that there's any problem with posting the criticisms in your post. David__77 Nov 2016 #148

I have received it too. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #163

maybe if your posts kept getting alerted you would learn one is off limits. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #162

That's the whole point. This place is full of people looking to have their insecurities soothed BlueStreak Nov 2016 #167

Strongly agree! thank you! jimlup Nov 2016 #112

More allegations of attacks against a sacred cow. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #133

It isn't "rational discourse" to accuse Bernie of calling on Democrats to stop fighting bigotry Ken Burch Nov 2016 #135

Don't get excited by these posts. I view them as Russian trolls probably trying to divide us. apcalc Nov 2016 #137

Easier said than done. VulgarPoet Nov 2016 #224

The only ones I curse are those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary still_one Nov 2016 #140

Al Gore can relate.... apcalc Nov 2016 #225

This election was a generational event, and it will take a generation to undo the damage done still_one Nov 2016 #227

What purpose does it serve Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #151

Meh, I have moved on. wildeyed Nov 2016 #152

Donald Trump is going to ascend to the Presidency of the United States of America. AngryAmish Nov 2016 #154

I have had two posts hidden in the "How Bernie's campaign contributed to Trump's win." thread. LS_Editor Nov 2016 #158

I anathematize KGB, FBI, KGB, the media, the GOP. But lately robbedvoter Nov 2016 #159

Yeah, that's a fucked up opinion to have. It's why I didn't even give that thread my grace. retrowire Nov 2016 #161

Stopping the looting at the top will continue to be my main issue. I'm not going to be interested brewens Nov 2016 #182

I've nothing against most Bernie supporters (other than a shitty attitude)... Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #193

Don't worry, the feeling is entirely mutual. Kentonio Nov 2016 #208

Worry? I could not possibly care less about the Bernie bros. Their 15 minutes are over. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #213

Interesting, I don't remember Bernie being the one who just lost an election to Donald Trump. Kentonio Nov 2016 #214

I don't remember talking about Bernie at all. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #217

If people are going to define themselves around a losing primary candidate BainsBane Nov 2016 #212