2016 Postmortem

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

167. That is not what happened Karynnj. Her book didnt hurt her. It was a blip. What happened

Tue Jul 12, 2016, 08:11 AM

Jul 2016

is she stepped into the 2016 primary and the never ending, absurd attacks began. Clinton is a liar, untrustworthy, no bases to accusations.

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I've never understood why Kerry did not face the same level of wrath from Democrats over [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 OP

It's like sesame street jcgoldie Jul 2016 #1

Because the IWR was just an excuse for Clinton hatred, nothing more. Hoyt Jul 2016 #2

DING! DING! DING! DING! baldguy Jul 2016 #82

Bingo! eom BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #126

Actually, the IWR was a critically important vote and test of judgment & qualifications Martin Eden Jul 2016 #149

No, it was vote to give g war bush leverage to end the Iraq situation. bush misused authorization. Hoyt Jul 2016 #183

Anyone who believed that was a FOOL Martin Eden Jul 2016 #184

They are voting what is in front of them. Bush owns breaking the agreement. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #185

Sorry, I disagree, but would love to see some of the links from 2002 that had it all figured out. Hoyt Jul 2016 #187

Are you saying that GW Bush didn't act in good faith? Martin Eden Jul 2016 #188

She made it very clear in her speech that she was not voting for war. KMOD Jul 2016 #204

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #205

rude KMOD Jul 2016 #209

True ... Martin Eden Jul 2016 #222

It's neither of your scenarios. KMOD Jul 2016 #224

If you believe Hillary was telling the truth, then you think she was fooled. Martin Eden Jul 2016 #225

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/remarks-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-transcript/p6600 KMOD Jul 2016 #231

I was Bok_Tukalo Jul 2016 #226

That depends what is being characterized Martin Eden Jul 2016 #228

...and that is why the Democrats immediately bought full page ads in every national newspaper, bvar22 Jul 2016 #199

Absolutely. And some of us were out protesting before long, too. lostnfound Jul 2016 #200

You nailed it! nt One of the 99 Jul 2016 #154

Thank you! That's it exactly! ~~ Just look at Susan Sarandon ... NurseJackie Jul 2016 #198

Not only her state attacked, 87% of the nation wanted it, two weeks before the 2002 election. seabeyond Jul 2016 #3

It seems Bush doesn't even face the same level of wrath over the IW. nt. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #4

+1! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #47

Yup, insane! obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #148

Oh but the purist circular firing squad did indeed do their thing... whatthehey Jul 2016 #5

there was criticism of Kerry, but no way did in parallel the Clinton hate over the IWR La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #7

Are you kidding? The 2004 primaries were a huge brawl, here. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #61

It was not what was campaigned against him. Or any of the others. Ya, on DU, HUGE brawl, I am sure. seabeyond Jul 2016 #69

If one really wants to dig, my posts are in there, somewhere. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #78

Maybe that is the difference. News obsessed and home 24/7. The impeachment did that seabeyond Jul 2016 #83

I was in Northern California at the time, so no doubt it was a different universe politically. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #117

You are right there. That is when my Repug husband said he would not vote Republican again. seabeyond Jul 2016 #119

Something else. I know in my red and military area, I was using the War and Bush, not Kerry, seabeyond Jul 2016 #87

John Edwards wasn't criticized for his Iraq vote either when he ran in 2008. annavictorious Jul 2016 #106

He was by me. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #116

yes he was, beyond that he was attacked as a phony karynnj Jul 2016 #159

That's the way I remember it, too. Rhiannon12866 Jul 2016 #141

Correct. n/t whathehell Jul 2016 #227

"So, you are good with murdering women and children" Was the consistent comment I received seabeyond Jul 2016 #62

Oh, Lord. If that comment isn't the hallmark of the asshole pretending to be a Democrat, I don't Squinch Jul 2016 #73

I won't do "So's" anymore. Start it with a so statement, and I am so outta there. Lol. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #79

Ha! You and me both! Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #118

was there a splintered group that kept up the attacks after the primary like JPR DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #140

God knows. Before my time even lurking. There's no derangement like CDS tho' whatthehey Jul 2016 #169

No, not at all. whathehell Jul 2016 #229

As Hoyt says, with a HUGE clue here: Hortensis Jul 2016 #6

Looks like jcgoldie Jul 2016 #8

yup. she was super popular when she was Secy of State and right after she stepped down La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #9

I wish I could find the article NewJeffCT Jul 2016 #21

That is the way I remember it PatSeg Jul 2016 #36

I think that was the gist of the article NewJeffCT Jul 2016 #40

Also PatSeg Jul 2016 #51

The Gallup poll says that only 13% chose her as most admired... Human101948 Jul 2016 #155

Exactly. Hortensis Jul 2016 #11

So true. sarae Jul 2016 #35

the divergence started before she announced for POTUS AntiBank Jul 2016 #29

Yes, in March and April of 2015. Prior, and I mean just prior, I was seeing polls with her high. seabeyond Jul 2016 #89

Clinton's book and the interviews around it happened then karynnj Jul 2016 #164

That is not what happened Karynnj. Her book didnt hurt her. It was a blip. What happened seabeyond Jul 2016 #167

All those things happened at the same time karynnj Jul 2016 #170

What I do know that I saw, is the attacks were on Obama. Suddenly, enough to draw my attention the seabeyond Jul 2016 #171

Bingo! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #49

I think that is the conclusion we can make. In honesty. I was staying out of politics, not a Clinton seabeyond Jul 2016 #77

Isn't that interesting. I know some think I play it, but women my age LIVE this. We KNOW seabeyond Jul 2016 #63

Well, her campaign is the very definition of "uppity-ness." Some people don't like it when Squinch Jul 2016 #76

Even among Dems, everything is worse when a Clinton does it. I don't know why.... CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #10

women who are viewed as agentic (assertive, ambitious, leader like) are generally La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #12

Well said PatSeg Jul 2016 #37

+1 sarae Jul 2016 #162

Women tend to be likable enough PatSeg Jul 2016 #189

Well said.. whathehell Jul 2016 #230

Thank you PatSeg Jul 2016 #232

You're welcome.. whathehell Jul 2016 #233

part of why her Iraq vote is still in play is Obama hammering her in 2008 AntiBank Jul 2016 #31

But after Kerry, it should be a trivial issue. She's apologized enough. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #34

it still resonates with many people, plus her tenure as SoS did nothing to alleviate the fears that AntiBank Jul 2016 #43

But again, she is no out of line with most elected Dems, yet she gets far more hate. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #68

"it still resonates with many people," No it does not. How do we know? Not a single other policitian seabeyond Jul 2016 #93

Bingo. bettyellen Jul 2016 #176

Obama isn't as critisized DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #128

People swallowed hard and overlooked it bbmykel Jul 2016 #13

But people can't overlook her vote? mcar Jul 2016 #41

That wasn't the choice bbmykel Jul 2016 #109

I was for Obama and that was not the reason. From language, I thought Obama MIGHt, seabeyond Jul 2016 #112

Isn't this facinating? None of the hate holds up to real scrutiny. bettyellen Jul 2016 #177

As far as votes on Iraq. I hold them all in the same regard. NWCorona Jul 2016 #14

Sexism isn't bizarre, it is the norm. WhiteTara Jul 2016 #15

I think you're right on target n/t radical noodle Jul 2016 #19

Good post. Not only held to a higher standard, but with obstacle. This would be the unlevel playing seabeyond Jul 2016 #96

I agree. sarae Jul 2016 #166

I use to. But, five years being on the battlefield I better understand. Now I focus on saying seabeyond Jul 2016 #173

I still hold Kerry, Biden, Edwards accountable bigwillq Jul 2016 #16

But you did vote for Kerry, and for Biden. I did too. And I don't know about you, but Squinch Jul 2016 #80

Yes (nt) bigwillq Jul 2016 #90

Must have been a DU thing. I wasn't here then, and I never heard it once. Squinch Jul 2016 #108

You forget where the nation was on Iraq when Kerry ran. Vattel Jul 2016 #17

It only became unpopular when Hillary ran. nt WhiteTara Jul 2016 #26

No, it was unpopular enough by 2006 that Democrats retook John Poet Jul 2016 #55

Exactly right. It really tanked in 2005 and 2006. Vattel Jul 2016 #113

What? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #59

were you verbose i your displeasure with them because DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #131

Yes, I was. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #133

Maybe you were critical but DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #139

it was slowly starting to lose favor in 2004 but not enough to get Kerry elected DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #130

Cough cough woman cough yardwork Jul 2016 #18

He didn't? That was probably the main criticism made against him by Dean supporters during the Chathamization Jul 2016 #20

I disagree. His milittary abilities certainly were that big in the campaign, but seabeyond Jul 2016 #98

It's one reason I voted for Kucinich and not Kerry in 2004. thesquanderer Jul 2016 #22

because living in the middle of the george w. moron* nightmare... Javaman Jul 2016 #23

The internet. People were not as well informed in 2004. Scuba Jul 2016 #24

That was then, this is now. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #25

if so, that is the most inane reason on earth. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #50

Um, no it isn't, actually. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #120

We expected better from her. Demobrat Jul 2016 #27

Obama hammered her on it AntiBank Jul 2016 #28

Perhaps because your premise is questionable at best? bonemachine Jul 2016 #30

no, my question is quite valid. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #48

OK, fine... bonemachine Jul 2016 #52

+1000 Exilednight Jul 2016 #142

+1,000 Vattel Jul 2016 #206

You are viewing her vote of over a decade ago through the prism of this election. Squinch Jul 2016 #85

Excellent point, why do people fail to include the difference. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #99

Well when they throw around phrases like women card or race card..... bettyellen Jul 2016 #32

They also claim the rules are different when it comes to the Clintons. JoePhilly Jul 2016 #33

It is bizarre to say the least mcar Jul 2016 #38

The "warmonger" tag was NEVER applied to Kerry, Biden or Edwards. oasis Jul 2016 #39

Yup. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #45

Get real. think Jul 2016 #46

Thanks for posting that. It's unfortunate that there's little interest in the evidence. Chathamization Jul 2016 #107

But who won the primary. Dean or Kerry DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #132

And Clinton won the primary this year. IWR doesn't seem to have hurt her much this year. Chathamization Jul 2016 #134

no what I am saying is that the mood in the country for dems in ' 04 was not anit-war. DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #138

But the mood of the country is never been particularly anti-IWR. Most people don't seem to care. Chathamization Jul 2016 #150

I respectfully disagree DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #156

It didn't seem to be a big problem for McCain in '08. I doubt Trump will get much mileage out of it, Chathamization Jul 2016 #163

no it was a problem DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #180

How quickly people forget. I suppose it being 14 years ago might have something to do with that. arcane1 Jul 2016 #110

"So much good our anti-war votes did" Correct. We got Bush. seabeyond Jul 2016 #115

yes it was 14 years ago but she is facing it while the others are not. Both then and now DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #143

They faced it then and now. arcane1 Jul 2016 #190

Exactly! treestar Jul 2016 #72

Same here. DCBob Jul 2016 #42

Yes, most did. geardaddy Jul 2016 #58

John Kerry isn't a Clinton. George II Jul 2016 #44

Excellent post. Yes. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #100

Because they're men. grossproffit Jul 2016 #53

Because, in political time, that was an eternity ago nt broadcaster75201 Jul 2016 #54

So what? So was her vote an eternity ago, then. The question is why did those three men get a pass Squinch Jul 2016 #86

Hillary is female isn't she? rock Jul 2016 #56

In 2004 i bought the noise that we needed the "practical" candidate because 9-11 Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #57

Both Kerry and HRC had unique reasons that people held them responsible - in addition to the fact karynnj Jul 2016 #60

Kerry threw those speeches away when he ran for president against Bush. arcane1 Jul 2016 #81

Kerry is NOT saying that Saddam had weapons of MD there - he is referring to SH's behavior karynnj Jul 2016 #88

Clinton was saying Saddam had WMDs and was a threat, and used it to justify bombing Iraq. arcane1 Jul 2016 #92

Here are Bill's own words: arcane1 Jul 2016 #95

Yes ... and before that bombing the inspectors were asked to leave karynnj Jul 2016 #104

Exactly. 2 presidents, 1 lie, and 0 WMDs n/t arcane1 Jul 2016 #111

GREAT post! Thank you for TRUTH. Those... YvonneCa Jul 2016 #94

I was shocked that Kerry voted for it democrattotheend Jul 2016 #103

+ 1000 n/t MBS Jul 2016 #144

The war wasn't as unpopular back when he ran. Lancero Jul 2016 #64

Or his wealth. JaneyVee Jul 2016 #65

I'm with you on that treestar Jul 2016 #66

The other three are men n/t cosmicone Jul 2016 #67

Yup. Sexism. Squinch Jul 2016 #70

It cost him my vote in 2004. arcane1 Jul 2016 #71

Wow. Yea. Bush. You told them. seabeyond Jul 2016 #102

some of it is lingering bitterness because she was associated with Bill's ericson00 Jul 2016 #74

The Iraq War was raging on. I don't think it was allowed to be part of the campaign narrative. nt Todays_Illusion Jul 2016 #75

Some of us have held the IWR vote against all who voted for it. SheilaT Jul 2016 #84

Penis. nt msanthrope Jul 2016 #91

It reminds me of how Al Gore was excoriated for his vote to confirm Scalia Ellen Forradalom Jul 2016 #97

I remember Kerry and Edwards being criticized a lot for it in 2004 democrattotheend Jul 2016 #101

An the great Irony is many of those folks Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #105

Susan Sarandon didn't make three hundred thousand Florida Democrats vote for Dubya. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #136

First of all Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #178

"Gore = Bush" No difference at all. Kinda like tweedle dee and tweedle dum. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #182

"Why" is right. As in "Y chromosome." nt BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #114

Politics are about identity and tribalism. ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #121

In 2003/04 the Iraq war was not as incredibly unpopular as it is now Ash_F Jul 2016 #122

Because Kerry was running against Bush, CanadaexPat Jul 2016 #123

Gee, Kerry/Edwards, both IWR yes voters, failed to win the election. That's wrath. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #124

Kerry lost because while liberals or progressives were anti war and unafraid of terrorism DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #151

so true DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #125

yes from the posts above I would have had to "prove" if I had posted a thread like this DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #145

Lots of reasons. morningfog Jul 2016 #127

yes the Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 attacks DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #174

They all knew it at the time. morningfog Jul 2016 #175

I was as angry with Kerry as I am with Hillary over the IWR vote Thirties Child Jul 2016 #129

Because he was running against its primary architect. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #135

Democrats are also susceptible to propaganda like the general population The Second Stone Jul 2016 #137

Since Oct 2002, in Dem primaries I have refused to support ANYONE who voted for the IWR Martin Eden Jul 2016 #146

Oh, we know why, Pri obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #147

I think people who were for Dean were for Dean because Dean had not voted for the war and merrily Jul 2016 #152

Don't blame anyone but yourself for failing to understand. Exilednight Jul 2016 #153

Over time average voters grew to understand just how bad voting for IWR was. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #157

women, she, her, female get it now? stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #158

Because he never stopped criticizing Bush for how he used IWR Bad Thoughts Jul 2016 #160

" " " " n/t MBS Jul 2016 #168

First of all, he faced plenty of wrath over his vote. MBS Jul 2016 #161

"You may dismiss a vote based on presidential aspirations as one more mark against politicians." Martin Eden Jul 2016 #172

My sentiments exactly! Thanks for posting! nt LAS14 Jul 2016 #165

Haters need to find a reason to hate liberal N proud Jul 2016 #179

They should all wear the same cones of shame... Orsino Jul 2016 #181

And to add, Kerry was our nominee in 2004 Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2016 #186

It is really bizarre - and its called politics CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #191

They are men. nt LexVegas Jul 2016 #192

Yeah, he did. It was a huge deal in 2004. Cal Carpenter Jul 2016 #193

Penis helped. Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #194

Just go the old DU site and check out why Dean was the frontrunner andym Jul 2016 #195

Yes, I wondered that as well. And how George Stephanopolous ehrnst Jul 2016 #196

Bias requires inconsistent and discordant responses to like things. LanternWaste Jul 2016 #197

Hillary is... Mike Nelson Jul 2016 #201

This time you can say "thanks, Obama" ... surrealAmerican Jul 2016 #202

The right wingnuts haven't been out to get Kerry for several decades like they did the Clinton. Lil Missy Jul 2016 #203

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #215

Wrong, they have hated him since 1971 karynnj Jul 2016 #217

No, they haven't hounded him repeatedly all those years like they have Hillary and Bill. n/t Lil Missy Jul 2016 #221

Actually they have. It killed his first run for Congress in 1972 karynnj Jul 2016 #223

Plus, mylye2222 Jul 2016 #234

Kerry has bona fides with those in the peace movement so his vote was an error in the context of a Vote2016 Jul 2016 #207

Why are you only just now bringing this up? If it's because you're pissed off that Hill is the... ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #208

lol. You really don't know what you're talking about. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #210

And you really didn't need to make the OP. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #211

Yes, I did. Clearly many people had things to say about it. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #212

You bringing up Kerry's vote for IWR now is what's silly. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #213

lol. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #214

Lol. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #216

I vehemently opposed Kerry and supported Dean in the Primary because of the Iraq vote. LostOne4Ever Jul 2016 #218

Do you honestly believe he or Biden received as much flak and name calling La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #219

I don't think that the flak that Hillary has gotten from some of the left LostOne4Ever Jul 2016 #220