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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: I've never understood why Kerry did not face the same level of wrath from Democrats over [View all]karynnj
(59,507 posts)104. Yes ... and before that bombing the inspectors were asked to leave
and by 2002 -- 4 years later -- there was a 4 year gap with no inspectors in Iraq.
It was not a mistake to want inspectors in; it was a mistake to include authorization to war in the legislation without coming back to Congress.
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I've never understood why Kerry did not face the same level of wrath from Democrats over [View all]
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2016
OP
Actually, the IWR was a critically important vote and test of judgment & qualifications
Martin Eden
Jul 2016
#149
No, it was vote to give g war bush leverage to end the Iraq situation. bush misused authorization.
Hoyt
Jul 2016
#183
They are voting what is in front of them. Bush owns breaking the agreement. Nt
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#185
Sorry, I disagree, but would love to see some of the links from 2002 that had it all figured out.
Hoyt
Jul 2016
#187
If you believe Hillary was telling the truth, then you think she was fooled.
Martin Eden
Jul 2016
#225
...and that is why the Democrats immediately bought full page ads in every national newspaper,
bvar22
Jul 2016
#199
Not only her state attacked, 87% of the nation wanted it, two weeks before the 2002 election.
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#3
there was criticism of Kerry, but no way did in parallel the Clinton hate over the IWR
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2016
#7
It was not what was campaigned against him. Or any of the others. Ya, on DU, HUGE brawl, I am sure.
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#69
Maybe that is the difference. News obsessed and home 24/7. The impeachment did that
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#83
I was in Northern California at the time, so no doubt it was a different universe politically.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2016
#117
You are right there. That is when my Repug husband said he would not vote Republican again.
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#119
Something else. I know in my red and military area, I was using the War and Bush, not Kerry,
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#87
John Edwards wasn't criticized for his Iraq vote either when he ran in 2008.
annavictorious
Jul 2016
#106
"So, you are good with murdering women and children" Was the consistent comment I received
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#62
Oh, Lord. If that comment isn't the hallmark of the asshole pretending to be a Democrat, I don't
Squinch
Jul 2016
#73
I won't do "So's" anymore. Start it with a so statement, and I am so outta there. Lol. Nt
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#79
was there a splintered group that kept up the attacks after the primary like JPR
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#140
God knows. Before my time even lurking. There's no derangement like CDS tho'
whatthehey
Jul 2016
#169
yup. she was super popular when she was Secy of State and right after she stepped down
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2016
#9
Yes, in March and April of 2015. Prior, and I mean just prior, I was seeing polls with her high.
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#89
That is not what happened Karynnj. Her book didnt hurt her. It was a blip. What happened
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#167
What I do know that I saw, is the attacks were on Obama. Suddenly, enough to draw my attention the
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#171
I think that is the conclusion we can make. In honesty. I was staying out of politics, not a Clinton
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#77
Isn't that interesting. I know some think I play it, but women my age LIVE this. We KNOW
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#63
Well, her campaign is the very definition of "uppity-ness." Some people don't like it when
Squinch
Jul 2016
#76
Even among Dems, everything is worse when a Clinton does it. I don't know why....
CrowCityDem
Jul 2016
#10
women who are viewed as agentic (assertive, ambitious, leader like) are generally
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2016
#12
it still resonates with many people, plus her tenure as SoS did nothing to alleviate the fears that
AntiBank
Jul 2016
#43
But again, she is no out of line with most elected Dems, yet she gets far more hate.
CrowCityDem
Jul 2016
#68
"it still resonates with many people," No it does not. How do we know? Not a single other policitian
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#93
I was for Obama and that was not the reason. From language, I thought Obama MIGHt,
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#112
Good post. Not only held to a higher standard, but with obstacle. This would be the unlevel playing
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#96
I use to. But, five years being on the battlefield I better understand. Now I focus on saying
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#173
But you did vote for Kerry, and for Biden. I did too. And I don't know about you, but
Squinch
Jul 2016
#80
it was slowly starting to lose favor in 2004 but not enough to get Kerry elected
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#130
He didn't? That was probably the main criticism made against him by Dean supporters during the
Chathamization
Jul 2016
#20
I disagree. His milittary abilities certainly were that big in the campaign, but
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#98
You are viewing her vote of over a decade ago through the prism of this election.
Squinch
Jul 2016
#85
Thanks for posting that. It's unfortunate that there's little interest in the evidence.
Chathamization
Jul 2016
#107
And Clinton won the primary this year. IWR doesn't seem to have hurt her much this year.
Chathamization
Jul 2016
#134
no what I am saying is that the mood in the country for dems in ' 04 was not anit-war.
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#138
But the mood of the country is never been particularly anti-IWR. Most people don't seem to care.
Chathamization
Jul 2016
#150
It didn't seem to be a big problem for McCain in '08. I doubt Trump will get much mileage out of it,
Chathamization
Jul 2016
#163
How quickly people forget. I suppose it being 14 years ago might have something to do with that.
arcane1
Jul 2016
#110
yes it was 14 years ago but she is facing it while the others are not. Both then and now
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#143
So what? So was her vote an eternity ago, then. The question is why did those three men get a pass
Squinch
Jul 2016
#86
In 2004 i bought the noise that we needed the "practical" candidate because 9-11
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2016
#57
Both Kerry and HRC had unique reasons that people held them responsible - in addition to the fact
karynnj
Jul 2016
#60
Kerry is NOT saying that Saddam had weapons of MD there - he is referring to SH's behavior
karynnj
Jul 2016
#88
Clinton was saying Saddam had WMDs and was a threat, and used it to justify bombing Iraq.
arcane1
Jul 2016
#92
The Iraq War was raging on. I don't think it was allowed to be part of the campaign narrative. nt
Todays_Illusion
Jul 2016
#75
It reminds me of how Al Gore was excoriated for his vote to confirm Scalia
Ellen Forradalom
Jul 2016
#97
Susan Sarandon didn't make three hundred thousand Florida Democrats vote for Dubya.
Scootaloo
Jul 2016
#136
"Gore = Bush" No difference at all. Kinda like tweedle dee and tweedle dum. Nt
seabeyond
Jul 2016
#182
Gee, Kerry/Edwards, both IWR yes voters, failed to win the election. That's wrath.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2016
#124
Kerry lost because while liberals or progressives were anti war and unafraid of terrorism
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#151
yes from the posts above I would have had to "prove" if I had posted a thread like this
DLCWIdem
Jul 2016
#145
Democrats are also susceptible to propaganda like the general population
The Second Stone
Jul 2016
#137
Since Oct 2002, in Dem primaries I have refused to support ANYONE who voted for the IWR
Martin Eden
Jul 2016
#146
I think people who were for Dean were for Dean because Dean had not voted for the war and
merrily
Jul 2016
#152
"You may dismiss a vote based on presidential aspirations as one more mark against politicians."
Martin Eden
Jul 2016
#172
The right wingnuts haven't been out to get Kerry for several decades like they did the Clinton.
Lil Missy
Jul 2016
#203
No, they haven't hounded him repeatedly all those years like they have Hillary and Bill. n/t
Lil Missy
Jul 2016
#221
Kerry has bona fides with those in the peace movement so his vote was an error in the context of a
Vote2016
Jul 2016
#207
Why are you only just now bringing this up? If it's because you're pissed off that Hill is the...
ChisolmTrailDem
Jul 2016
#208
I vehemently opposed Kerry and supported Dean in the Primary because of the Iraq vote.
LostOne4Ever
Jul 2016
#218
Do you honestly believe he or Biden received as much flak and name calling
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2016
#219
I don't think that the flak that Hillary has gotten from some of the left
LostOne4Ever
Jul 2016
#220