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Religion

In reply to the discussion: Don't take it literally [View all]

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
45. So little you know
Mon Mar 26, 2018, 04:11 PM
Mar 2018

Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2018, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

It would not have been considered "lying" when these people wrote these stories. A stories "truthfulness" would have been judged by whether the "conclusion" or "lesson" was correct. Historians long ago figured out that any history text that was written much before the 20th century has to viewed in a different light. It's the whole "Washington never told a lie" problem. People weren't "lying", they were expressing an idea (or probably more accurately, an "ideal" ). When you read any document that predates "modern" science, you have to read it understanding that the concept of "being consistent with the facts" didn't really exist. Heck, for many "ancient" documents one has to be careful about "numbers". The vast majority of people, even people who could read and write, knew little about math or numbers. Any number much bigger than about 12 wasn't a quantity so much as an adjective. They were often used to express concepts associate with numerology.

Generally speaking the people that wrote these original stories (and quite honestly, the true "original" stories are probably long lost. What we read today are probably the results of retelling, copying and expanding upon the originals) did not write to "deceive" generally speaking. To a great degree they knew what they were doing and thought it was the "right" thing to do. And the listeners understood as well. Just because today we have judged this a poor way of communicating information, doesn't mean you can stop putting the original story tellers in the proper context. To do so is a deception.

Don't take it literally [View all] Cartoonist Mar 2018 OP
As we used to say, Right on! PJMcK Mar 2018 #1
Uh huh..Do Torah.and Koran believers "have a problem" too? whathehell Mar 2018 #3
The Torah edhopper Mar 2018 #5
I knew that. whathehell Mar 2018 #7
I love dicussing edhopper Mar 2018 #10
Who's stopping you? whathehell Mar 2018 #11
nobody edhopper Mar 2018 #14
Ah yes it is time for me to play Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #48
Now hold on there fella!! edhopper Mar 2018 #49
4 questions edhopper Mar 2018 #50
If at some point Jews and Muslims pose a legitimate threat to secularism in this country... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #29
Sorry, but there's no "credible threat of secularization" in a nation whathehell Mar 2018 #33
How's that transgender troop ban working out for you? Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #35
Oh, who cares about them? Mariana Mar 2018 #62
Sorry. I forgot. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #65
Nor is there a legitimate threat of cogent responses, it seems. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #38
Yes! Cartoonist Mar 2018 #6
Really? whathehell Mar 2018 #9
Limits Cartoonist Mar 2018 #12
Oh please.. whathehell Mar 2018 #15
Keeping it real Cartoonist Mar 2018 #16
Lol..I think not. whathehell Mar 2018 #19
So let me get this straight Cartoonist Mar 2018 #20
Yes, I think you should.. whathehell Mar 2018 #23
No. They're the same. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #25
Why aren't you delighted about this? trotsky Mar 2018 #22
In this group, we've had Christians tell us Mariana Mar 2018 #17
If you've had Christians admit to "fiction" but no others, why are you whathehell Mar 2018 #21
Because it's christians here who routinely deliberately lie about the definition of atheism. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #24
I don't think it could be put any better than this. trotsky Mar 2018 #28
It's like being told all those German planes were shot down over London in WW2 Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #32
Where do you mean by "here"? whathehell Mar 2018 #30
You think not? You act like reality is subjective, which is kind of the problem... Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #31
"You act like reality is subjective"...Huh? whathehell Mar 2018 #36
Nobody ever said Stalin wasn't. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #37
No religion condones murder Cartoonist Mar 2018 #43
Well see it's not murder if god says it's ok. n/t trotsky Mar 2018 #44
You were supposed to use another religion Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #47
Lol...Your quotes are allmost entirely from the Torah, not whathehell Mar 2018 #64
You think not again, I take it. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #67
Holy shit, what a loon. Mariana Mar 2018 #73
It must be said we're getting a classic display of the level of self-deceit required. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #81
Lol.. whathehell Mar 2018 #85
You keep missing the point. trotsky Mar 2018 #86
A no-true-Scotsman, a baseless accusation of baiting, and a fake injury all at once. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #87
Wow.. whathehell Mar 2018 #94
This isn't a Christian group, so it isn't equivalent Mariana Mar 2018 #88
Yes, but the "targets" of atheists here are almost invariably Christian whathehell Mar 2018 #90
Are you referring to the Atheists & Agnostic group that has more posts.... trotsky Mar 2018 #91
So what? Mariana Mar 2018 #93
So WHAT?? whathehell Mar 2018 #95
Biased and unfair? Mariana Mar 2018 #98
I counted three excuses Cartoonist Mar 2018 #68
You'd dismiss anything as an "excuse" whathehell Mar 2018 #69
It might be only two Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #83
The Christian "Buble" includes both the old and new testaments. trotsky Mar 2018 #82
Ignoring the OT means "Thou shalt not kill" is obsolete. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #84
Because it leads to further questions. Mariana Mar 2018 #59
Well, maybe some initial questions would be asppropriate whathehell Mar 2018 #63
Your keyboard has been possessed by the ghost of a can of alphabet soup. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #66
Lol! whathehell Mar 2018 #75
There is still a Muslim forum here. I believe it is a safe haven group. nt. Mariana Mar 2018 #72
Oh right.. whathehell Mar 2018 #76
They already have it. Mariana Mar 2018 #92
Not on this forum, which was my original point whathehell Mar 2018 #97
It's true, this group isn't a safe haven for anyone. So what? nt. Mariana Mar 2018 #99
To answer your elegantly worded question, this is "so what". whathehell Mar 2018 #100
Fine. I give up. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #39
Again whathehell Mar 2018 #78
We're not talking about a fringe group, unless you consider christianity as a whole to be fringe. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2018 #80
You're kidding, right? whathehell Mar 2018 #89
Actually, not taking the Bible literally is how theologists work. DetlefK Mar 2018 #2
That's simply not true marylandblue Mar 2018 #46
There's that and... Ferrets are Cool Mar 2018 #4
But what about the parts they *do* take literally? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #8
Oddly enough, some who take none of it literally MineralMan Mar 2018 #13
I like Chinese food PJMcK Mar 2018 #18
Whoa! You broke it down brilliantly and clearly. Thank you. brush Mar 2018 #26
Wow zipplewrath Mar 2018 #27
Go ahead Cartoonist Mar 2018 #34
One size fits all zipplewrath Mar 2018 #40
Who created the universe? Cartoonist Mar 2018 #42
So little you know zipplewrath Mar 2018 #45
So when did the stories edhopper Mar 2018 #52
A mixture zipplewrath Mar 2018 #54
But the Church edhopper Mar 2018 #56
Not exactly zipplewrath Mar 2018 #61
There is equivocation afoot. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #79
Our conception of historical truth came from ancient Greece marylandblue Mar 2018 #51
Or modern concept zipplewrath Mar 2018 #55
Jesus' time and place was well acquainted with Greek ideas marylandblue Mar 2018 #57
okay edhopper Mar 2018 #70
When I was a little kid in the 60s, there was this term, "Cafeteria Catholic." Iggo Mar 2018 #41
Not even the literalists can or should claim thucythucy Mar 2018 #53
The credibility of the nice stuff isn't shot Mariana Mar 2018 #60
Probably not, but they're still nicely put. thucythucy Mar 2018 #71
The idea that the "Bible" is the literal word of God is a relatively new phenomena Docreed2003 Mar 2018 #58
Some images Cartoonist Mar 2018 #74
/ underpants Mar 2018 #77
Jumping to conclusions? guillaumeb Mar 2018 #96
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