Religion

IamFortunesFool

(348 posts)

128. He doesn't argue for any physiological changes.

Wed Oct 18, 2017, 03:54 PM

Oct 2017

Think of our brain, the actual physical matter of it, as the hardware of a computer; motherboard, video card, processors, etc... Subjectivity is the current software program that we are running on our biological hardware. Jaynes description of what he calls the "bicameral mind" was the program our species previously utilized before the complexity of metaphorical language created the internal mind space for the subjective experience to arise. While Jaynes does not address it, you can easily extrapolate his theory to postulate an even more ancient "software" program that predated and evolved into bicameralism, and ever onward into our primal past; all progressing through processes of natural selection to eventually begat our modern hyper-subjectivity...driven now ever onward by the abstractions our communications media age.

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The end of theism. [View all] guillaumeb Oct 2017 OP

I think theism is tribalism greymattermom Oct 2017 #1

Belief systems are common to human society. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #2

Citation needed. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #3

Elaboration needed. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #5

The following unqualified assertions require qualification: Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #25

Perhaps in another post. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #32

Or perhaps not. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #43

You started this OP ....... the responders deserve to see you support YOUR OP Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #50

Wiki - "Evolutionary origin of religions." Anyone can respond, right? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #57

Yes, anyone can respond. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #63

Which doesn't really answer the question. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #82

"Many citations from multiple sources." yallerdawg Oct 2017 #83

You're proposing a deterministic explanation for the origins of religion. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #89

A psychological, evolutionary predisposition towards theism... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #90

Pretty ass-backward reasoning. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #91

Not to mention we still have this shifting of the goalposts going on. trotsky Oct 2017 #92

To be completely fair to our opponents, it is hard to keep the goalposts in one place... Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #105

Are you familiar with Julian Jaynes theory of human psychological evolution? IamFortunesFool Oct 2017 #108

Only passingly. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #144

"Curiosity." yallerdawg Oct 2017 #93

Really. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #104

Brown hair and blue eyes have gene codes. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #110

See, that's where you're wrong. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #152

This is like 'debating' gun humpers! yallerdawg Oct 2017 #153

I was going to say it is more like debating creationists. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #154

'Climate deniers' use this tactic, too. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #155

I assume you're talking about the tactic where they greatly overestimate their expertise? Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #157

What y'all are posting could be applied sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #169

Here are some things that *could* also be applied to us: Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #173

In that order? 🙃 You had to include PB and marshmallow fluff, dint ya. 😋 sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #182

Hmm trotsky Oct 2017 #159

That's what Roy Moore believes. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #164

I'd like to discuss with you how you're still missing the point, trotsky Oct 2017 #165

Ut-oh. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #170

The tone of this reply seems somewhat different sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #194

'Everyone "knows" genetic code determines traits.' trotsky Oct 2017 #156

Everyone knows that's just epigeneticist propaganda! Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #158

You got me!! trotsky Oct 2017 #161

It *may* be theistic. It may be an idealised representation of a mother muriel_volestrangler Oct 2017 #151

No we don't "all know it" Lordquinton Oct 2017 #166

We're tossing out genetics and psychology, so far. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #167

Not tossing out Lordquinton Oct 2017 #189

Trust me! yallerdawg Oct 2017 #190

You nailed it. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #191

"theism, a belief in gods, has apparently existed since human society arose" trotsky Oct 2017 #49

Three lines of evidence support it marylandblue Oct 2017 #59

Well put. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #62

Oh I agree with you, but what you're saying is not what g is claiming. trotsky Oct 2017 #84

Julian Jaynes theory of human psychological evolution provides a beautifully elegant yet obvious IamFortunesFool Oct 2017 #106

That's a pretty interesting theory. trotsky Oct 2017 #112

Jaynes makes an incredibly compelling case. IamFortunesFool Oct 2017 #122

I should read the book of course, but physiologically our brain structure hasn't changed much... trotsky Oct 2017 #127

He doesn't argue for any physiological changes. IamFortunesFool Oct 2017 #128

As Ironic, and true, your statement is about theism being a glue that bonds, pennylane100 Oct 2017 #4

True, all belief systems can be, and are, used in service to power. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #6

I'm glad you agree that religion is just another human idea, trotsky Oct 2017 #16

What are you claiming exactly? eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #21

That religion is just another human idea, trotsky Oct 2017 #24

I understood and agree. BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #45

It was Crystal clear Lordquinton Oct 2017 #74

" saying only that it placed a larger burden on her" mitch96 Oct 2017 #15

I never felt that she was guilt tripping me. pennylane100 Oct 2017 #51

"I never felt that she was guilt tripping me." mitch96 Oct 2017 #65

It's a slow death Cartoonist Oct 2017 #7

Ah yes, the ever-receding horizon of freedom from theism. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #8

Ever-approaching Cartoonist Oct 2017 #9

Scientists also predict that the sun is cooling. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #10

Did you really post that? Cartoonist Oct 2017 #11

My cat prefers cat videos to politics. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #12

Last I heard Igel Oct 2017 #67

Many in my family are quite long lived, but a billion years is probably out of reaach. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #71

Not to worry. As it cools, it'll get closer to us. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #53

Yet it is a fact there are fewer theists today than there were 25, 50, 100, or 300 years ago. trotsky Oct 2017 #14

There are fewer? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #17

I don't really care, myself, how many people believe in god. trotsky Oct 2017 #18

What are you claiming exactly? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #20

I am claiming that you are guilty of the argumentum ad populum fallacy. trotsky Oct 2017 #23

O know thta you are fond of making the claim, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #30

Yes, exactly. trotsky Oct 2017 #48

Indoctrination. What, like an injection or something? sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #77

Yeah, it's a forcefully injected idea. trotsky Oct 2017 #85

I haven't 'trouble' understanding as your so 'eloquent' sentence puts it. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #147

I'm glad you think you weren't indoctrinated and that you freely chose the faith... trotsky Oct 2017 #149

Word. And I yam not wanting to contend. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #172

I gave you specifics in post 46. Have fun reading. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #54

Where are the posts that predict "the end of theism"? trotsky Oct 2017 #13

The posts are numerous in the many comments at DU in the Religion Group. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #19

You made the claim, you need to support it. trotsky Oct 2017 #22

Wait. He just said there were 'numerous posts." MineralMan Oct 2017 #28

That was nearly thre identical resposne that I amde over your previous claims guillaumeb Oct 2017 #29

I will await proof of your claim. trotsky Oct 2017 #47

Similar to your own earlier claim? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #61

Ah, so it's true that you hold others to higher standards than you hold yourself. trotsky Oct 2017 #87

So it is true that you yourself hold to a different standard. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #94

Nope dude, this is YOUR standard. trotsky Oct 2017 #100

So when you refused to provide the links to your previous, unsupported claim, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #102

I can see you're struggling with this. trotsky Oct 2017 #103

Your evasion is transparent, and understandable. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #107

Despite my better judgment, based on ALL your past history... trotsky Oct 2017 #111

You cannot remember what you posted about theists attacking guillaumeb Oct 2017 #114

FFS trotsky Oct 2017 #115

I understand your reluctance. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #116

Well yeah, you did humiliate yourself once again. trotsky Oct 2017 #117

Certainly. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #118

Read post #7 in this link. Your own response. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #119

Fucking sweet! trotsky Oct 2017 #121

I also provided another link to another post by you guillaumeb Oct 2017 #123

Oh and here's another link proving my claim. trotsky Oct 2017 #126

I am happy to help you: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #129

LOLOLOL trotsky Oct 2017 #131

You proved nothing. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #132

I responded to your challenge. trotsky Oct 2017 #135

And if you will: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #133

Cbayer literally used the word demons. trotsky Oct 2017 #137

Carefully reread her reply. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #139

I'm sorry that you are not aware of the context and history. trotsky Oct 2017 #141

Here you go! trotsky Oct 2017 #124

From the same older thread as above, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #120

And you know why I didn't provide links when asked? trotsky Oct 2017 #125

A weak deflection. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #130

The only deflection going on now is what you're doing. trotsky Oct 2017 #134

You provided nothing showing any posts that support your dual claims guillaumeb Oct 2017 #136

So self-humiliation it is. trotsky Oct 2017 #138

Ironic indeed. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #140

Feel free to repeat it, if it makes you feel better. trotsky Oct 2017 #142

Unsupported udders. 😆😘 sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #78

I have no idea what you're talking about. trotsky Oct 2017 #86

I had tee many martoonis last nite and too much to dream. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #148

Considering that your profile says you've only been a member of DU since March 2017... trotsky Oct 2017 #150

Maybe they were time traveling martoonis. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #160

I gotta try me one of those, then. n/t trotsky Oct 2017 #162

I hear they only sell them in PA. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #163

My steelworker ancestors liked them some 'boilermakers' made with Old Grandad. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #174

"Na z'drovje!" "Mens sana en corpore sano!" "A votre sante!"🍻 sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #175

Heh, heh. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #178

Hello my companion in humanity, sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #168

Pray tell, "stranger," what was your username previously? trotsky Oct 2017 #171

That would be a kinda Pandora. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #176

Are your legal briefs... NeoGreen Oct 2017 #179

Fascinating. trotsky Oct 2017 #184

You mb reading too much into this. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #186

Possibly. Hard to know when your specific choice of words was: trotsky Oct 2017 #187

I should've added a googly eye silly kooky smilie? sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #188

Proof of this claim? Lordquinton Oct 2017 #75

Theism started dying 300 years ago. We can wait. DetlefK Oct 2017 #26

An interesting response. Thank you for it. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #33

Ah, false equivocation. Never seen this rhetorical trick before. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #58

Explain your insight to those scientists who are theists. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #64

I listened to them. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #68

I have no imagination. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #72

Religion and science cannot coexist. They are philosophically radically incompatible. DetlefK Oct 2017 #80

Another revealing response. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #95

They're not busting down my doors to form an alliance sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #79

Really? Do you have links? MineralMan Oct 2017 #27

OK, I'll post a link, and even a chart: MineralMan Oct 2017 #31

The words unaffiliated and non-believer are not synonymous. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #35

I posted links. When you post links to back up your claims, MineralMan Oct 2017 #37

#36. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #38

My links do not say that theism is dying. MineralMan Oct 2017 #39

What I said: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #40

Theism is dying Cartoonist Oct 2017 #70

The universe will also die. Entropy wins. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #73

Careful, you're letting him move the goalposts. trotsky Oct 2017 #113

The soviets weren't atheistic. They claimed to be, but they were a theocracy that permitted no rival AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #55

Also, I see your own sleight of hand tricks. They wear thin. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #56

Here's another link, and a more recent one. MineralMan Oct 2017 #34

#29 was my response to another DU poster. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #36

Oh, dear. But you can't have read those posts before starting MineralMan Oct 2017 #41

More evasion? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #42

You added those links after the fact. MineralMan Oct 2017 #44

My fault for not indicating that the replies were edited. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #60

Let's remember that your claim is people posted about "the end of theism." trotsky Oct 2017 #88

I have had occasion to tell that user that theism is dying/declining/going away. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #52

I am impressed with your frequent condescension and sarcasm. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #101

I would have been happy to tell you all about it, if you'd asked. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #109

There you go with weasel words like 'many'. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #46

Waning. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #66

Indeed it is. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #69

Tribalism indeed. elleng Oct 2017 #76

It started when proto-humans walked upright. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #96

Yes, social creatures, elleng Oct 2017 #99

Are Buddhists theists? No god in Buddhism Bretton Garcia Oct 2017 #81

Ask a Buddhist. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #97

These are modern western distinctions marylandblue Oct 2017 #98

Buddhism is nontheistic vlyons Oct 2017 #181

The Big Picture KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #143

Atheists don't have to say with total certainty Mariana Oct 2017 #145

I agree, Mariana KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #146

That day can't come soon enough Orrex Oct 2017 #177

Buddhism is a non-theistic practice vlyons Oct 2017 #180

Post 98 modifies this somewhat. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #183

marylandblue (post 98) vlyons Oct 2017 #185

I think I didn't make myself clear marylandblue Oct 2017 #192

Clear to me also. Thanks to Vlyons for the information. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #193

You're describing tradition vlyons Oct 2017 #195

"I have read posts here talking about the end of theism." trotsky Oct 2017 #196

No, you did not. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #197

Yes, I did. trotsky Oct 2017 #198

Have fun with your game. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #199

I did. trotsky Oct 2017 #200