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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
24. We have had gun control since the founding
Wed Apr 5, 2017, 09:04 PM
Apr 2017

not always for the best reason, like why Florida banned open carry in 1893. The Gun Control Act didn't help the crime rate in the 1960s and 70s.
Yes, we did have a long discussion then. Unfortunately, it was less than a logical and rational discussion. The worst offenders were Piers Morgan and Wayne La Pierre. Morgan incapable of a cogent argument, and Wayne pulling out the video game canard and a "mental health registry", which disgusted me.
I'm a strong believer in strict scrutiny. If there is no valid evidence of a cause and effect, the restriction should not exist. That applies to everything.
There is no functional difference between an AR15 and a Ruger 10/22 with a wooden stock. ARs are popular target rifles in the US, Canada, and much of Europe. Even the UK has them, just modified. One thing about the NFA that should change is that a single shot rifle or shotgun with the wrong barrel length is regulated as a machine gun. No other country does that. Open carry is really a nonissue. It would be the regulation that serves no purpose. Simply "because I don't like it" isn't a good enough reason. I think smoking pot is a stinky nasty habit like tobbacco, but I support legalization.

While I think it is stupid for a number of reasons, at least in populated areas, I do open carry when backpacking. That isn't a federal issue.
SYG is a use of force law. Each state, mostly common law, varies. Florida's SYG is different than California's, or the UK's for that matter. For example, California's is common law and allows counter attacks, Florida's by statute does not.
Duty to retreat is unique to the US, even then in a minority of states. SYG simply means "no duty to retreat" if you safely can. Out of the self-defense shootings, or stabbings, I have looked at, I haven't found one where the defender didn't try to escape if possible. My biggest issue with SYG is simply the intellectual laziness and dishonesty of pundits and politicians. Here is a good overview on the subject.

Here is the dirty little secret about drum magazines. There is a reason why mall ninjas buy them, but military and cops don't use them. Outside of practicing clearing jams, they are a C note of junk. The Aurora shooter did more damage with a pump shotgun because the drum magazine caused a jam on the second or third round. That doesn't mean I think they should be banned, I just think they are stupid.

There are things that can be done that won't hurt responsible gun owners but could cut down on the misuse of firearms
Actually, responsible gun owners will be affected. It will not affect the gangs, the crazy people etc. Sandy Hook is very rare. Until then, two of the worst school shootings were in Germany. Of course, that has nothing to do with the regular mass stabbings in China. China's mental health system is very poor.
What will save lives? Better mental health access will help in the rare spree murder. Most of our violence is another issue. Most of it is gangs.
If you look at the correlation between income inequality, as measured by the GINI Index, and violent crime, you will find that it is greater than gun laws or anything else. The most violent cities in the world, two are in the US, have these in common.
gangs, extremes in wealth inequality, political corruption, poverty, crumbling infrastructure.
That is one reason why places like Mexico and Brazil have low legal gun ownership rates, stricter gun laws than the UK, have high murder rates. Countries with similar gun ownership rates to the US, although sometimes more regulated, are places like Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland.
Ending the drug war, closing the income gap, rebuild the cities as well as fixing roads and bridges will save more lives than any gun law ever will.
In November my home state of PA went Red [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 OP
Your concern is noted. n/t Scoopster Apr 2017 #1
Your guns aren't that powerful. Warpy Apr 2017 #2
re: "They won't turn you into a mighty army against tyranny" discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #16
That is ALL that mattered in Western PA ebbie15644 Apr 2017 #3
The map discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #17
My husband owns a lot of guns radical noodle Apr 2017 #4
how does he define "common sense"? gejohnston Apr 2017 #12
We've talked about a lot of possibilities.. radical noodle Apr 2017 #14
You need to be a bit more specific discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #18
I am not into writing law that is specific and also will be constitutional radical noodle Apr 2017 #25
Just a few things gejohnston Apr 2017 #31
Sounds like we agree on some things radical noodle Apr 2017 #32
A case in point. Straw Man Apr 2017 #40
We have had gun control since the founding gejohnston Apr 2017 #24
How would you feel about getting a gun license radical noodle Apr 2017 #30
You mean what a FOID is in Illinois? gejohnston Apr 2017 #34
I'm not familiar with Illinois gun laws radical noodle Apr 2017 #37
"Even one is too many" wincest Apr 2017 #60
They might, but they will not. oneshooter Apr 2017 #61
government and gun safety, there's oxymoron discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #62
Remember, only the Police and other Law Enforcement are trained well enough to carry firearms. n/t oneshooter Apr 2017 #63
do you mean folks like agent horiuchi? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #65
"Remember, only the Police and other Law Enforcement are trained well enough to carry firearms." wincest Apr 2017 #66
when seconds count.... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #67
What you are describing is my Florida Concealed Weaons Permit. ... spin Apr 2017 #43
"He would even go for treating the military style rifles the way machine guns are regulated." wincest Apr 2017 #64
Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #56
I rode the bus to knock on doors for Hillary HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #5
Just a coincidence Lithos Apr 2017 #6
"GOTV effort" discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #19
She lost PA not from the Rural Dems Lithos Apr 2017 #23
When I knocked on over 100 doors a day, there were zero admitted Trump voters HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #29
We were sent to only Democratic households to try to GOTV radical noodle Apr 2017 #33
Yes, Dem area outside Philly HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #35
Exactly krispos42 May 2017 #109
PBS Doc. Snackshack Apr 2017 #7
++ I saw that doc last night lunasun Apr 2017 #10
Do you have any suggestions? discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #20
Nothing that has not already Snackshack Apr 2017 #50
Revocation of the right of ownership if convicted of a crime or declared mentally compromised gejohnston Apr 2017 #51
I do not confuse... Snackshack Apr 2017 #52
"It should not be deliverable to the front door." Why not? It seems to work well in Canada. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2017 #53
just a few things gejohnston Apr 2017 #54
Let's look at your 1st #'d paragrph: yagotme Apr 2017 #55
We just moved to Pa. from Florida HockeyMom Apr 2017 #8
I believe Monroe voted HRC discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #21
Now I know who to blame gejohnston Apr 2017 #36
I voted in my first presidential election in 1972 at the ripe dae Apr 2017 #9
Yep same bs line for a long time lunasun Apr 2017 #11
I think changing that perception would serve us well n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #22
I thought Obama already took all thier guns away during his regime lunasun Apr 2017 #13
It goes back at least to the Kennedy's but yeah Obama scared them dae Apr 2017 #15
He did. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #27
Not that there wasn't talk of more legislation and... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #75
A massive amount of assumption here. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #26
The converse requires the same discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #46
I am a poll worker in one of those rural counties. Guns had nothing to do with what happened. appleannie1943 Apr 2017 #28
Philly and Pittsburgh, with Alabama in between Freddie Apr 2017 #38
I am north of the Burgh. appleannie1943 Apr 2017 #41
re: "Guns had nothing to do with what happened." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #47
The main issue in my county was jobs and health. Period. appleannie1943 Apr 2017 #48
2 issues cost votes Alea Apr 2017 #39
All the thugs in my area were more concerned with health care. They eat, sleep and drink FOX. appleannie1943 Apr 2017 #42
I agree and Alea Apr 2017 #45
Sometimes I think there are those who want to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #49
It's lost the whole South...it's time we faced the music, people like keeping ileus Apr 2017 #44
Freedom is the natural state of people. It's a biological imperative discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #73
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that dishonesty on the gun violence pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #57
The fight is not against pro-regulation; it's against denial. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #74
I have to say Alea Apr 2017 #58
Not at all discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #59
Let me interrupt this smug little Democrat-slagging thread for a moment.... Paladin Apr 2017 #68
smug little Democrat-slagging thread? Alea Apr 2017 #69
Feel free; stop back anytime; everyone's welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #70
Happy interrupting. Straw Man Apr 2017 #71
Democrats that help put Republicans in office *should* be slagged. Repeatedly, and with great vigor friendly_iconoclast Apr 2017 #72
I know --I listen to many in WI -gun talk and fear of taking guns away DOES count as a riversedge Apr 2017 #76
It is one of those issues that exist as divides between urban and rural discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #78
The writting is on the wall randr Apr 2017 #77
Dissent is certainly welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #81
I also own guns and I abhor the NRA randr Apr 2017 #91
We can debate many statistics... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #96
There is no debate randr Apr 2017 #97
Well I do respect your opinion discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #99
Part of your statement, yagotme Apr 2017 #105
Damn polls always messin with facts randr Apr 2017 #106
Yep, sometimes they do. nt yagotme Apr 2017 #107
Do you then sarisataka Apr 2017 #108
Fears over gun control is a major reason Al Gore lost Tennessee, cheapdate Apr 2017 #79
I think you are right, my dem daughter and her dem AJT Apr 2017 #80
I know there is a lot for city folk and country folk to learn from each other. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #82
We had 8 years of a President who gun hobbyists were SURE was going to take all Squinch Apr 2017 #83
I'm only saying... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #84
He spent 8 years hoping a new AWB would pass Congress. krispos42 May 2017 #110
Some folks take published words seriously discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #111
Correlation is not causation. Eko Apr 2017 #85
"...stricter gun laws." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #86
Same poll. Eko Apr 2017 #87
Well a number of states have an AWB discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #88
And,,,,,,,,, Eko Apr 2017 #89
I didn't say a third stayed home b/c of they disagreed on guns discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #92
What? Eko Apr 2017 #94
I'm saying there are a number of Democrats in rural PA discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #101
I live in rural PA. Eko Apr 2017 #102
I work in rural PA, Somerset County discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #103
I dont hate a style of gun. Eko Apr 2017 #90
FYI, I don't own an AR discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #93
I do too. Eko Apr 2017 #95
Respect and you're welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #98
Have a good dinner. Eko Apr 2017 #100
It was great, thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #104
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