Israel/Palestine

Bradlad

(206 posts)

150. And that's why Israel has learned . .

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 12:14 PM

Aug 2012

Last edited Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

that it can depend on no-one but itself for its defense. In fact, the failure of the international community and the US especially which gave Israel solid assurances re: the Sinai - to take a strong supporting role in defending Israel from Arab aggression - as well as numerous similar situations over the last decades - has created a scenario where a unilateral Israeli attack on Iran or any other state that represents a serious threat to Israel is probably unavoidable.

Duplicity has a price. No-one trusts you.

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Israel’s Settlers Are Here to Stay (NY Times op-ed) [View all] Violet_Crumble Jul 2012 OP

So, Americans are now supposed to fight another couple wars to keep this guy in place? leveymg Jul 2012 #1

Well, just don't lecture them. Nobody gets to lecture them. bemildred Jul 2012 #2

Maybe not connected to the real world. But, someone keeps on sending them money leveymg Jul 2012 #4

Hey, it took us 15 years to figure out we were never going to win in VietNam. bemildred Jul 2012 #5

History is written by those who own the screenrights. leveymg Jul 2012 #7

Walker. bemildred Jul 2012 #8

In the future, history will be rescripted to suit the whims of the Producers. leveymg Jul 2012 #9

Hubris is not new, the penalty has not changed. bemildred Jul 2012 #13

"We create our own reality", indeed, until we go overbudget leveymg Jul 2012 #16

Don't feel compelled (by Surface Detail). bemildred Jul 2012 #17

I already disbelieve quite a lot of I see, hear and read in the news media. leveymg Jul 2012 #20

Probably not much. bemildred Jul 2012 #22

It's only nuts until it happens. leveymg Jul 2012 #25

Israel's presence . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #14

Israel's presence in the West Bank is the very definition of a colonial enterprise. bemildred Jul 2012 #15

By that argument . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #18

Blah blah blah and off we go. bemildred Jul 2012 #19

Then let's not dissemble. Bradlad Jul 2012 #21

Yeah, I agree, this isn't going to go very far. nt bemildred Jul 2012 #23

Nor did I ever expect it to. Bradlad Jul 2012 #26

The cheap way out DonCoquixote Jul 2012 #106

Let's clear the field first. Bradlad Jul 2012 #107

My humble retort DonCoquixote Jul 2012 #108

So what is your solution to the issue of the WB aka Judea and Samaria sabbat hunter Aug 2012 #127

My opinion . . Bradlad Aug 2012 #130

Thinking more about this . . Bradlad Aug 2012 #132

I'm not obligated to answer his "points". bemildred Jul 2012 #109

I agree about the control. Bradlad Jul 2012 #24

Palestinians have no power, their decisions don't mean piffle. nt bemildred Jul 2012 #27

That's what happens Bradlad Jul 2012 #29

That's what happens when you have no power. bemildred Jul 2012 #31

Right. It all started when the Jews shot back. n/t Bradlad Jul 2012 #32

I was thinking more of the Athenian expedition to Syracuse. bemildred Jul 2012 #33

au contrair...the Palestinians have lots of power..... pelsar Jul 2012 #30

Compared to Israel's power, the Palestinians have zilch........n/t kayecy Jul 2012 #34

of course you believe that.... pelsar Jul 2012 #36

Your claim that Palestinians have power to effect change is disingenuous kayecy Jul 2012 #38

i wrote change.....not change that you believe has to happen pelsar Jul 2012 #43

I'm always willing to oblige with an explanation...... kayecy Jul 2012 #49

forced to?..by whom? pelsar Jul 2012 #58

I don't agree with you but no matter....... kayecy Jul 2012 #65

there are always choices..... pelsar Jul 2012 #70

They did?.......News to me,..... kayecy Jul 2012 #73

yes its news, because you prefer to make up word definitions. pelsar Jul 2012 #87

More distractions....Just stick to justifying your claim..... kayecy Jul 2012 #92

the subject was the power the Palestinians have..... pelsar Jul 2012 #94

Having got the foundation right,...... kayecy Jul 2012 #96

ok we've established that they do have power... pelsar Jul 2012 #97

Don't you ever answer the question? kayecy Jul 2012 #99

i answer when were talking about the samething....Palestenian power to make changes. pelsar Jul 2012 #101

If you can't or won't repond to my question ....... kayecy Jul 2012 #105

Palestenian power.....history and future..... pelsar Aug 2012 #111

They are going to have to find a third method!......... kayecy Aug 2012 #112

so keep doing the same thing.... pelsar Aug 2012 #114

mining open areas sabbat hunter Aug 2012 #128

Kayecy: As a "last resort" Israel forced Palestinians to become suicide bombers.... shira Jul 2012 #50

This is power, this is control: bemildred Jul 2012 #28

The Palestinians have the power to stop that. Settlers would've ended 12 years ago... shira Jul 2012 #39

It is perfectly clear to anyone with a brain that they do not have the power to stop that. bemildred Jul 2012 #52

So had Arafat accepted in 2000-01, settlement expansion would've continued? shira Jul 2012 #53

Please see post #52, that is what I am arguing. bemildred Jul 2012 #54

So if the Palestinians agree NOW to real peace, put a serious end to terror... shira Jul 2012 #55

You just love those false hypotheticals, don't you? nt bemildred Jul 2012 #57

So the Palestinians aren't as powerless as you claim. Great! n/t shira Jul 2012 #62

So you love those false hypotheticals, great! nt bemildred Jul 2012 #64

Nothing false about it. You're wrong and can't admit it. n/t shira Jul 2012 #74

I haven't seem post #52 refuted. bemildred Jul 2012 #76

so let's turn this around azurnoir Jul 2012 #103

Jews have lived in Greece and Turkey for longer than they've lived in Israel... shaayecanaan Jul 2012 #44

I agree. Bradlad Jul 2012 #45

Too bad "moral" and "ethical" aren't really synonyms Scootaloo Jul 2012 #51

The difference between Palestinians in the West Bank and Palestinians in Jerusalem and Israel Proper Ken Burch Jul 2012 #46

I thought this was pretty clear. Bradlad Jul 2012 #61

And in addition . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #67

I was wondering Ya Basta Aug 2012 #125

Yes, it is different. Bradlad Aug 2012 #126

So killing and sticking guns into people's faces makes theft legitimate? Ya Basta Aug 2012 #129

You are completely wrong. Bradlad Aug 2012 #131

...Israel's use of force to take land away from the Palestinians... Shaktimaan Aug 2012 #135

In a way, I'm glad the NY Times published this oberliner Jul 2012 #3

Dani Dayan?!? LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #6

But They are not Citizens – A Centrist’s Response to Dani Dayan shira Jul 2012 #10

The six day war was defensive?....Who used military force first?.......n/t kayecy Jul 2012 #35

Yeah, it was. Closing off the Straits of Tiran alone was an act of war vs. Israel... shira Jul 2012 #37

So the US started the Pacific War did it?....... kayecy Jul 2012 #40

The US did not blockade Japan before Japan attacked. aranthus Jul 2012 #42

just out of curiosity....because i am curious.... pelsar Jul 2012 #48

There are many things I do not know about the 6-day war kayecy Jul 2012 #56

It is a subject of great and vituperative dispute, which is why I now avoid arguing about it. bemildred Jul 2012 #59

You are probably sensible, but "defensive" is ridiculous!...n/t kayecy Jul 2012 #66

Nobody ever fights an offensive war anymore. bemildred Jul 2012 #68

Egypt did in 1973. Had Israel pre-empted at the last minute, you'd blame Israel.... shira Jul 2012 #77

That is true. bemildred Jul 2012 #80

Again, had Israel pre-empted Egypt in 1973 at the very last minute you would say... shira Jul 2012 #81

Correct. bemildred Jul 2012 #83

Thank you. Case closed. n/t shira Jul 2012 #84

It's hard to be more completely wrong than that. n/t Bradlad Jul 2012 #85

its pretty simple... pelsar Jul 2012 #60

Why kill lots of people when you have a choice?...... kayecy Jul 2012 #63

because the israeli govt sometimes makes intelligent decisions...... pelsar Jul 2012 #71

Or the war-monger idiots to use as justification..... kayecy Jul 2012 #75

This is why you guys can't expect to be taken seriously. Egypt attacked Israel in 1973... shira Jul 2012 #78

just an historical note..... pelsar Jul 2012 #91

try again (this will be your third attempt) pelsar Jul 2012 #88

Is your 5th excuse coming up?....... kayecy Jul 2012 #93

wow...you completely misunderstood me pelsar Jul 2012 #95

A few sources for you: kayecy Jul 2012 #98

Warning! Definition escape in progress. Bradlad Jul 2012 #100

Response error...n/t kayecy Jul 2012 #102

Read more carefully. Bradlad Jul 2012 #104

LOL...the IDF (military intelligence) KNEW........ pelsar Aug 2012 #110

You are quite right Pelsar, one should not listen to noises….. kayecy Aug 2012 #113

i guess you forgot... pelsar Aug 2012 #115

It is now your turn to put-up or shut-up....... kayecy Aug 2012 #116

i shut up only if i'm wrong....but i'm not, your are (again) pelsar Aug 2012 #117

Is that the best comparison you could find?.......... kayecy Aug 2012 #118

you big on Israeli Intelligence... pelsar Aug 2012 #119

Our achievements so far: kayecy Aug 2012 #120

Kayecy: Why did Rabin have a nervous breakdown in the days leading up to the '67 war? shira Aug 2012 #121

it would be best if you stop making things up and concentrate on the subject... pelsar Aug 2012 #133

What evidence have you that the Arabs were NOT demoralized?... kayecy Aug 2012 #134

egypt already started the war.... (again...DICTIONARY) pelsar Aug 2012 #136

I really do like the quotes you have found......... kayecy Aug 2012 #137

lets try again... stop moving the 'goal posts" pelsar Aug 2012 #138

Since you now seem to have resorted to bluster .... kayecy Aug 2012 #140

quit whenever you want...i shall repeat what you will not answer..... pelsar Aug 2012 #142

Disappointing but not unexpected........ kayecy Aug 2012 #143

im still waiting.... pelsar Aug 2012 #144

If you stopped miss-quoting me........... kayecy Aug 2012 #145

it goes back to the blockade pelsar Aug 2012 #146

You are not claiming '67 was a "defensive war"........ kayecy Aug 2012 #147

of course i dismiss legal trivialities.... pelsar Aug 2012 #149

And don't answer the question....... kayecy Aug 2012 #151

time line...use it (i know you dont like it) pelsar Aug 2012 #152

Are you going to answer my question?......... kayecy Aug 2012 #153

You said Nasser.... pelsar Aug 2012 #154

I made a threat did I?........ kayecy Aug 2012 #155

i thought you wanted to stop.... pelsar Aug 2012 #156

Why did it take you so long?....... kayecy Aug 2012 #157

where do you get your quotes from? pelsar Aug 2012 #158

Is this “advice” of yours just more puffery .... kayecy Aug 2012 #159

you make way too many assumptions... pelsar Aug 2012 #160

Well, are you afraid?..... kayecy Aug 2012 #161

afraid of an internet discussion?.....just your asking is weird enough pelsar Aug 2012 #162

It is always a pleasure to correct ......... kayecy Aug 2012 #163

so reckless with human lives..... pelsar Aug 2012 #164

Israel killed 18,000 Lebanese....... kayecy Aug 2012 #165

Not merely "feeling threatened." Shaktimaan Aug 2012 #139

I would only add that . . Bradlad Aug 2012 #141

Actually, there were 5 causes of war & Israel tried handling it diplomatically first... shira Aug 2012 #148

And that's why Israel has learned . . Bradlad Aug 2012 #150

Because the choice was to surrender. aranthus Jul 2012 #89

Kayecy would undoubtedly claim that if Israel blockaded parts of Egypt.... shira Aug 2012 #122

You should learn more about it. Bradlad Jul 2012 #69

Here's another interesting snip: Bradlad Jul 2012 #72

This quote shows Western powers acknowledged that Egypt blockading Tiran.... shira Aug 2012 #123

You are right, of course. Bradlad Aug 2012 #124

In Sinai: Egypt. In the West Bank: Jordan. In the Golan: Syria aranthus Jul 2012 #41

Yes. The Six Day War most certainly WAS defensive. Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #47

Settler Leader’s Wrongheaded Proposal shira Jul 2012 #11

Response to Commentary Article in Arutz Sheva...... shira Jul 2012 #12

I have finally come to the sad conclusion ... earthside Jul 2012 #79

How so? And what should they have done differently? And how would it matter? n/t shira Jul 2012 #82

Do you mean by... holdencaufield Jul 2012 #90

according to this poll more Israeli's are ready to have it that way too-forever azurnoir Jul 2012 #86