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Environment & Energy

In reply to the discussion: Energy Flow Diagrams [View all]

progree

(10,977 posts)
13. I hope my long post wasn't a lot of word salad -- the point of it is that
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:55 AM
Apr 2019

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

in, for example, the Eastern Interconnection (2/3 of the U.S.), the electric power grid is one humongous monster electrical-mechanical "machine" operating as one entity in synchronism where every moment, generation matches load (+ transmission and distribution line losses) almost exactly every second and minute. If not -- adjustments are automatically made to quickly restore the balance. If those adjustments aren't enough, soon enough, and the dispatchers can't do something pretty quickly, a lot of shit happens big time.

So there is no wasted electricity (other than the line losses) in the grid. That's not coming from some chest-thumping utility guy bragging, it's just the physics of the situation.

Yes, there's a ton of wasted energy in making the electricity (converting the energy content in nuclear and fossil fuels into electricity), and of course a ton wasted by customer devices. But not in the grid itself (again other than line losses)

The Eastern Interconnection is the entire eastern 2/3 of the U.S. (ends at the Rocky Mountains), EXcluding the Texas Interconnection, which is its own monster synchronous machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Interconnection

Many decades ago, I once worked for a place that generated a ton of electrical power (I'll just say greater than 100 MW) and energy. But the local utility couldn't use it because our generation was intermittent and unpredictable, and anyway some heavy duty transmission would have to have been built out to this unimaginably remote location.

So what happened to all that electricity that nobody wanted?

It went to a huge huge resistor in a big water-filled cooling tank. The hot water produced went to a cooling tower that emitted a monster cloud of water vapor that could be seen tens of miles away.

But I've never heard of an electric utility that has something like that! I don't think wind farms or solar farms do anything like this either.

Energy Flow Diagrams [View all] OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 OP
Thanks for posting .. I was thinking about posting the U.S. diagram progree Apr 2019 #1
Pretty sure the numbers on the far left for each source is actual output unrelated to potential (nt) mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #2
I read (belatedly) the fine print below the diagram, and my understanding now is progree Apr 2019 #3
You're Welcome OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 #9
U.S. renewable electricity generation has doubled since 2008 OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 #11
I know I'm overlooking something obvious, but why is there a factor of 10 difference progree Apr 2019 #15
Watch your units OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 #16
What I meant was the "other renewables" -- the green band in #11 is about 40 million MWH progree Apr 2019 #17
Sadly, the use of "other" is not consistent between the two graphs OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 #18
Whew. That makes sense (and I spent about 10 minutes trying to find something wrong with it) progree Apr 2019 #19
You're Welcome! (No text) OKIsItJustMe Apr 2019 #20
"Make your own chart" - Thanks, I don't think I've seen this feature before nt progree Apr 2019 #14
What is "rejected energy " 68.5????? in the upper right in the gray box mitch96 Apr 2019 #4
Yes. nt progree Apr 2019 #5
Thermodynamics in action caraher Apr 2019 #6
I was also thinking about it's difficult to store electrical energy mitch96 Apr 2019 #7
Nope -- electricity generated must match the system load every second, otherwise the system progree Apr 2019 #8
When you say frequency...... mitch96 Apr 2019 #10
60 hz progree Apr 2019 #12
I hope my long post wasn't a lot of word salad -- the point of it is that progree Apr 2019 #13
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