Venezuelan gov't has been using "decree powers" for half a century!

[freshwest]

24. You are mistaken on all counts of the extent of Executive Orders,

which while federal government ordered, commanded the states and all enttities to do the will of the EOs. These crossed all the lines of society, from business to the most personal and effected real people:



Executive Order 9066 was a United States presidential executive order signed and issued during World War II by the United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, authorizing the Secretary of War to prescribe certain areas as military zones. Eventually, EO 9066 cleared the way for the deportation of Japanese Americans to internment camps. The executive order was spurred by a combination of war hysteria and reactions to the Niihau Incident.

'Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas...'

Americans of Italian and German ancestry were also targeted by these restrictions, including internment. 11,000 people of German ancestry were interned, as were 3,000 people of Italian ancestry, along with some Jewish refugees. The interned Jewish refugees came from Germany, as the U.S. government did not differentiate between ethnic Jews and ethnic Germans (Jewish was defined as a religious practice). Some of the internees of European descent were interned only briefly, while others were held for several years beyond the end of the war. Like the Japanese internees, these smaller groups had American-born citizens in their numbers, especially among the children. A few members of ethnicities of other Axis countries were interned, but exact numbers are unknown.

Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson was responsible for assisting relocated people with transport, food, shelter, and other accommodations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

I will note at this point, that Maduro is facing civil unrest and hysteria just as FDR was facing. As awful as the internment was, did it save lives?

I've read of the outright theft of land, homes and intense racist hatred expressed toward loyal Americans of Japanese descent by those who did not see any reason for them to be here.

Not pretty reading at all. If Maduro was not taking these measures, which are ostensibly to ease the fury of the masses, would they shed the blood of those who they see as robbing them?

Is Maduro promulgating violence or reducing it?

Those questions seem to fall within DUer's notions of pro or anti Maduro, or ideology. Revolutions, wars and civil wars kill many innocent people who are scapegoated.

Remarkably, EO 9066 was not repealed until 1976 by President Ford. More information at link above.

EO 9066 violated the 5th Amendment under the Constitution, or so it was argued by plaintiffs. The Supreme Court disagreed:

The Legality of Japanese Relocation

The legality of interning thousands of American Japanese was thoroughly tested in the following cases:

Case #1:

Hirbayashi, an American citizen of Japanese ancestry, was convicted in the district court of knowingly disregarding restrictions placed on him by the relocation order. The defendant cited his Fifth Amendment rights which guarantees that Americans will not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. In trying the case, the Supreme Court upheld the position of the government as a wartime necessity.

Case #2:

Based on the Hirbayashi Case, the Supreme Court once again upheld the legality of the relocation when presented with the case of Fred Korematsu, who was arrested and convicted for not reporting to an assembly center in May 1942 and for remaining in San Leandro, California, a 'Military Area.' In this case, the Supreme Court exhibited deference towards military opinion and made it clear that the relocation was based on military necessity and not on racial prejudice. Also, the term "concentration camp" is explicitly condemned as a reference to the relocation centers.

http://americanhistory.unomaha.edu/module_display.php?mod_id=69&review=yes#504

Another of FDR's EO's during war time is this one here:

EO 8802 was issued to end racial and other discrimination in hiring for government work. While is within your idea of federal, those manufacturers were not directly employed by the federal government, but were by privately owned firms, such as GM, etc.:

http://americanhistory.unomaha.edu/module_display.php?mod_id=69&review=yes#869

Those are just a few examples. We are also not living during WW2 or the American Civil War. And some of the EO's from Kennedy through Bush are scary things that do give the POTUS power to mobilize or force any people, business and resources in emergencies.

We don't ever want these to be enacted, and they will not be if we maintain a democratic government, but some are determined to undermine the things that prevent revolution, or social disorder, civil wars or catastrophes made by people.

Natural catastrophes can be mitigated by a well functioning government taking steps to reduce the impact, which the Grover types want eliminated. More profit for them by destroying the Commons, allowing them to enforce economic apartheid by privatization. We are now seeing this take place here in our country. It leads to a feudal mindset.

Which is what countries south of the border have endured for centuries. It's not new for them to be squeezed by oligarchs.

It appears that Maduro is of the mind, as are his supporters, that he is in the midst of a war against those persons or groups intent on overturning his government. He thinks he is legitimate. I am talking in terms of reasons and results. Is it a civil war?

Lincoln also did things that crossed all the lines.

Going after supermarkets seems silly or dictatorial to us. It may be his last stand. Myself, I do not believe this is the way to get concessions from the implacable business class. In our country, there was an appeal from all fronts, religious and otherwise, to decency and fair play. And violence, indeed, that forced changes.

Coming from centuries of hardship based on brutal colonial rule in the Americas, which the USA fought off years ago, it seems out of line to some people. The Europeans had wars based on this and accomplished a more thorough job of creating a more equa society despite maintenance of their aristocratic families, than even we have.

If Maduro is not building needed infrastructure, both social and physical in his nation, he will fail. In order to have working government, or to achieve a social democracy the basics of life must be available, as well as the promotion of education and training for the jobs of the future in a world economy. Venezuela's oil didn't produce prosperity in recent years.

Should Chavez or now Maduro make some kind of compromise with the business class to build a mixed social democracy such as Europe and to a lesser extent, the USA?

It's heretical to some, but it theoretically takes care of the needs of most of society, allows for social mobility, and faces the reality that the oligarches, as Putin admitted himself, are not going away...

So the face is, they must be negotatiated with, but we must remember they have legions of people who are not oligarchs, but support their system. They will kill those who try to end it as there is more than one kind of soldier.

Marxist theory calls for the evolution of society, and socialism springs from a capitalist stage after other forms have been overcome. But socialism always has opposition, its roots are deep and intertwined. Religion and other social groups support royalty of a less Earthly kind, but still, they use the same language.

Many otherwise modern people love romanticized views of a naturalistic medieval lifestyle in media fantasy. Within such alternative realities, there are acceptance of things we say we hate. Why would we fantasize about that, when we say we fear being taken back to the medieval era?

I suggest we're not being educated on the values of what we have in a social democracy, but want to dream. Those who dream of a utopia of equality thorugh socialism also refuse to give it up. Likely though, the future is in the middle. I wish it were not, personally.

Most of this is not a valid answer to your question or statement, but I will close in saying that the reasons for EO's and the decrees being explained in this thread, are not the bogeyman. The reason for what Maduro is doing has not been well explained, outside of ideological rhetorical terms.

The results may be good, they may be a disaster. The reason behind EO's are important, as are the results, not just the name.

AFAIK, Obama has never made an unConstitutional but any stretch of even the most radical RWNJ fantasy. I don't think Maduro is, either.

I still think we are not getting enough data from Venezuela to discuss fully what is happening there. There must be something more going on, that we are not seeing. The views appear one sided, pro or anti, not really factual.

Okay, back to housework. Sorry I didn't do better in this reply.